On Nov 18, 11:30*pm, " wrote:
On Nov 18, 5:22*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:



"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message

.. .

Larry L wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote
However, the moment the government puts one penny of my tax dollar
into that mess I want a clean sweep. That means fire every damn
executive in the company, tear up the union contracts, void all
deals with suppliers, tell the shareholders "tough ****, you got
nothin'",

Well, I don't really know much about bankruptcy ( and don't understand
what I know ;-) but I've been given the impression that it would, indeed,
force such changes .... whereas just handing them money wouldn't

My point was that Congress shouldn't just hand them the money but
mandate an actual government takeover. With Chapter 11 bankruptcy
the same old nitwits would be in charge of the reorganization and
it'll take an act of Congress to tear up the union contracts.

The only argument against bankruptcy ( like many airlines have ) seems to
be that buyers would be afraid to buy because of uncertainty about future
service/ parts/ and such. * *To my mind, I'd far prefer to buy from a
trimmed, re-structured, company than one that will use the bailout up in
a couple months and be looking for more, instead of really changing. * *A
healthy company is far more likely to be there in 15years to supply parts
than a temporarily bailed out one ... IMO

I'm NOT saying "let 'em fail" .... I am saying "let 'em take the routes
available in the system to fix their problems"

That's a good argument, but I don't think the system is capable
of handling such an enormous problem.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Chapter 11 would put the judge in charge. *He can tear up the union
contracts, he can toss management. * We are not going to lose 10% of the
country's jobs. *Either they will survive leaner and functional with a
better business model, or something else will fill their niche.

10% seems high. *I've been reading "2 million jobs directly and
indirectly
affected". *Given that the "indirectly" people are likely people like
mechanics,
it seems unlikely all those jobs would instantly vanish. *I don't know
for certain,
but I assume we have more than 20 million jobs in this country
regardless.

Silly question: *Why is it that foreign companies with local (US)
manufacturing
seem to be doing alright while domestic companies are bleeding money?
* * - Ken

The "indirect" jobs, and there are a lot of them, are suppliers of
parts and tooling. I was involved in exactly that industry for 23
years, and it involves a number of medium sized to very small
businesses all across the country. The company I worked for supplied
tooling to Ford, Chrysler and Saturn directly, and to subcontractors.
We also worked for Japanese companies who supplied to Nissan and
Honda. The automotive end was close to 50% of our business, the
balance being tooling for the personal care industry, basically
Proctor & Gamble and Cheeseborough Ponds. A total collapse of
domestic auto manufacturers would deal a death blow to many suppliers
of parts and tooling across the country, and when you add the support
industries, 10% job loss might be a bit low. I fear we are very near a
tipping point with the economy, and a collapse of the domestic auto
industry could push it over the edge.

Before anyone asks, the Japanese owned outfits were much leaner and
more demanding, with a lot less B.S. involved than their American
counterparts.