On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 16:51:36 -0400, jeff wrote:

wrote:



for more than a year prior to feb 2009, obama gave clear indications of
his positions, philosophies, and character (for those willing to read
and listen)...enough that my wife and i independent of one another took
notice, hoped he would announce as a candidate, and then began our
active support. something we'd not done with any heartfelt enthusiasm
since our 20s. i doubt we were the only ones affected in this way.

No, you weren't. Unfortunately, he didn't give clear indications of much of
anything (good or bad). Which, at least for me, makes the utter polarization
surrounding him all the more sad and strange. Neither you, as a fairly
well-spoken, general-purpose supporter, or me, as a somewhat skeptical, "devil's
advocate," kinda guy (or even Forty, as a paradoxically wild-eyed-but-blind,
frothing-at-the-mouth rabid fan and Louie, as a drooling right-wing Rush
Glenbeck-listening loony) can really support, with substantive and objective
proof, a strong case for OR against.

he changed the direction of this country (and the perceptions of this
country) long before january 20, 2009.

No, he really hasn't. But from the other side, um...no, he really hasn't...but
see below...

i just don't understand the schadenfreude for obama that some have...

I don't either - thus far, he really hasn't done or accomplished much of
anything - from any standpoint. A ban on guns? Nope. A rise in taxes? Nope.
Gay atheist Muslim dope-smoking liberal hippie commies encouraging grade-school
kids to use condoms for unnatural sex in Heartland, Kansas? Nope. The Abortion
Czar putting PETA supporters at every mall with a coathanger? Not even close.
"Christmas (or Hanukkah) - no, Kwanzaa (or Ramadan) - yes." Hardly. Are Bush,
Cheney, and the CIA being investigated? Nop...er, ye...er, nop...er, ye....er,
nop...well, maybe...or not...

Thus far, about all he has REALLY accomplished is to REALLY divide those he is
supposed to be President of....yeah, yeah, yeah, I know - it's ALL the fault of
the other side...(and in all seriousness, most of the division isn't his
"fault," nor did he "cause" all of it, but OTOH, neither he nor his
administration has done much of anything to ease it, either, and they have
encouraged some of it)

IAC, while I haven't polled them, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that the
great majority of the world don't really know or care about Obama or any other
POTUS, anymore than most of those in the US know or really care about how
Indians, Chinese, Portuguese, or those any other country feel or are governed

unless they simply acknowledge being a rascist.

Hmmm...what about when certain sectors (and I mean sectors of races, not entire
races) of the various... um.... non-(half)white people blamed _everything_ on
white people...? Was that not "racist?" As an aside, is a rascist anything
like a facist?

i'll wager though that of all the nobel recipients, he
is easily the most recognizable and best-known in the world.

Except, apparently, in Poland...

And your statement above is a pretty good indication of what I feel is the whole
problem - "Americancentricism." And note that I did not write "Americentric" or
similar.

my hope is for people, especially those in other countries, to believe
genuinely that our president promotes and desires peaceful solutions. we
are too often a violent short-sighted society, rightly perceived as
such, with petty purposes and ideas.

Um, who exactly is "we"...?

i like having a president who
doesn't fit that mold, and who garners the admiration and respect of
other world leaders...not to mention the nobel committee.

What makes you think he is "admired and respected" by "world leaders?"

i'm incredibly proud of obama...he's doing a terrific job as president
under the worst of circumstances.

OK. Please give examples of why you feel he is doing a terrific job.

though the bewilderingly hostile chasm and wasteland between repubs and
dems, conservatives and liberals, (using those labels in the most
dogmatic sense) keeps us a divided nation, i am seeing more folks (like
paul...and even tim g) in recent months who are willing to express
their dissatisfaction with the way things have been and who are seeking
ways to bridge the divide. it's encouraging... as is a president
awarded the nobel peace prize.

I'm curious - when Obama said he didn't deserve it, did you feel that he was
being honest, falsely modest, disingenuous, or ??? And if you feel he was being
honest, why do you disagree with him? IOW, why do you feel that he does deserve
it when he honestly disagrees with you?


jeff

TC,
R