FishingBanter - View Single Post

**jeff** · October 12th, 2009, 01:54 AM posted to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly

wrote:

he changed the direction of this country (and the perceptions of this
country) long before january 20, 2009.

No, he really hasn't. But from the other side, um...no, he really hasn't...but
see below...

well...yes, he really has. he began a movement...a sea-change in ideas
and ideals and politics. now, diplomacy is different. UN policy and talk
is decidedly different. foreign relations are different. appreciation
of civil rights, individual liberties, constitutional rights are
different. torture policies are different. integrity of
decision-making is different. honest statements to the
public...different. economic push, different. regard for the balance of
power between branches of govt...different. appointment of federal
judges...way, way different (and better...g) talking about the facts
instead of creating facts to talk about...huge difference. he's restored
pride to a substantial segment of the population that felt lost, left
out, used, taken for granted, and burdened. he can speak intelligently,
powerfully...inspiring folks...way different. there is a sense of
integrity, honor, and truth. there is a recognition of the value of
other cultures and different perspectives. his efforts for a nuclear
weapon-free world. (or nukular) he's black. just look at how he was
received here and in other countries in 2008... why do you think that
happened?

i just don't understand the schadenfreude for obama that some have...

I don't either - thus far, he really hasn't done or accomplished much of
anything - from any standpoint. A ban on guns? Nope. A rise in taxes? Nope.
Gay atheist Muslim dope-smoking liberal hippie commies encouraging grade-school
kids to use condoms for unnatural sex in Heartland, Kansas? Nope. The Abortion
Czar putting PETA supporters at every mall with a coathanger? Not even close.
"Christmas (or Hanukkah) - no, Kwanzaa (or Ramadan) - yes." Hardly. Are Bush,
Cheney, and the CIA being investigated? Nop...er, ye...er, nop...er, ye....er,
nop...well, maybe...or not...

folks want him to fail, want to find fault. go out of their way to
condemn him. ...and, of course, it's all his fault. are you saying he's
not tried in any meaningful, substantive, and honest way to implement or
initiate important change? what do you think he should have done, or
done differently? pick something...and talk about his efforts
objectively as the executive branch...

Thus far, about all he has REALLY accomplished is to REALLY divide those he is
supposed to be President of....yeah, yeah, yeah, I know - it's ALL the fault of
the other side...(and in all seriousness, most of the division isn't his
"fault," nor did he "cause" all of it, but OTOH, neither he nor his
administration has done much of anything to ease it, either, and they have
encouraged some of it)

tell me...what has he done to cause the divide...other than be black? my
take is he's bent over backwards to try to find consensus, to encourage
discussion and compromise. ken and others may be right...perhaps he
should just say screw the repubs and push the agenda. i don't think so.
i like his approach.

IAC, while I haven't polled them, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that the
great majority of the world don't really know or care about Obama or any other
POTUS, anymore than most of those in the US know or really care about how
Indians, Chinese, Portuguese, or those any other country feel or are governed

i haven't polled them either...but i'll go out on the same limb and say
more people in the world can tell you who obama is than can tell you who
herta muller is (and probably more than can identify william faulkner).
think back on his speech in germany...his visits to other
countries...the muslim world reaction... i think you understate the
general view of world leaders ... russia, china, us, uk, israel, middle
east, etc., and their political systems and populaces.

unless they simply acknowledge being a rascist.

Hmmm...what about when certain sectors (and I mean sectors of races, not entire
races) of the various... um.... non-(half)white people blamed _everything_ on
white people...? Was that not "racist?" As an aside, is a rascist anything
like a facist?

yeah, yeah...racist... and i don't think racists exist only in a
single color or race. still, i accept there is an historical and real
basis for the black hatred of whites in the u.s. - a basis or reason for
the emotion that i can't find an equal underpinning for with the white
racists...maybe you can explain it?

i'll wager though that of all the nobel recipients, he
is easily the most recognizable and best-known in the world.

Except, apparently, in Poland...

too obscure for me...but see above...

And your statement above is a pretty good indication of what I feel is the whole
problem - "Americancentricism." And note that I did not write "Americentric" or
similar.

don't get your meaning...but that's nothing new. please explain.

my hope is for people, especially those in other countries, to believe
genuinely that our president promotes and desires peaceful solutions. we
are too often a violent short-sighted society, rightly perceived as
such, with petty purposes and ideas.

Um, who exactly is "we"...?

we = u.s. public/society/culture

i like having a president who
doesn't fit that mold, and who garners the admiration and respect of
other world leaders...not to mention the nobel committee.

What makes you think he is "admired and respected" by "world leaders?"

i think it based on my reading... and based on newscasts i've seen on
teevee.

i'm incredibly proud of obama...he's doing a terrific job as president
under the worst of circumstances.

OK. Please give examples of why you feel he is doing a terrific job.

see above... i trust you understand "worst of circumstances."

though the bewilderingly hostile chasm and wasteland between repubs and
dems, conservatives and liberals, (using those labels in the most
dogmatic sense) keeps us a divided nation, i am seeing more folks (like
paul...and even tim g) in recent months who are willing to express
their dissatisfaction with the way things have been and who are seeking
ways to bridge the divide. it's encouraging... as is a president
awarded the nobel peace prize.

I'm curious - when Obama said he didn't deserve it, did you feel that he was
being honest, falsely modest, disingenuous, or ??? And if you feel he was being
honest, why do you disagree with him? IOW, why do you feel that he does deserve
it when he honestly disagrees with you?

i thought he was being genuine...a real and humble and honest human
being...who recognized the power of his symbol and his efforts, that
were being encouraged. i don't think i chimed in saying he did or did
not deserve it...the nobel committee, carrying out the will of alfred
nobel, decided he deserved it. the committee is comprised of
non-americancentrists, don't you agree? they've been in the business of
making selections since early 1900s. it's their job and their
choice...not yours or mine. we can debate our view of the merit of the
selection...but it ain't debatable that i'm proud of it and encouraged
by it.

i admit i was surprised. i believe i said i was proud and encouraged
that our president received the prize.

clearly, to me and based on the statements contained in nobel's will,
the prize is intended to recognize and encourage potential and the
possible effects of the selection. i think obama was perceived as
bringing a better sense of reason and balance to a precarious and
dangerous set of world circumstances.

jose merida (yeah, about as well known as jeff miller) said he thought
the prize to obama also "recognized the american people who dared to
vote for a change of the u.s. role in the world." perception can become
reality... "give peace a chance"

jeff