On 2010-02-22 19:36:05 -0500, "Mark Bowen" said:


"rw" wrote in message
...
David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-02-22 16:59:33 -0500, rw said:

After WWII the US convicted Japanese soldiers of war crimes and
sentenced them to very harsh penalties for waterboarding. It's torture.


Perhaps. But would YOU use it if someone kidnapped your child and
wouldn't tell you where she was? Would you use it to save one of yours?
There's no pain. No lasting physical impairment. No blood. Our own
soldiers experienced it to help them survive interregation. Would you
beat, hit, bite the man that knew where your child was being kept?
Simple question, Steve. Would you sacrifice your child or would you
waterboard the perp? Remember -- no pain, no blood, no loss of limbs,
teeth, ears, or eyes. Just a simple procedure that lasts less that 15
seconds. Would you?

I sure as hell would. I'd use it to save YOU, never mind my own children
or loved ones. Hell, I'd use it to save any human being, and Wolfgang.

Dave

That's an absurd argument. You could use it to justify ANYTHING, not just
waterboarding.

By the way, General Petaeus, Colin Powell, and John McCain agree with me
that waterboarding is torture and violates American values.

This is absolutely a "no brainer" and by that I mean Davey has no brain much
less a moral compass, so hell, he'd waterboard his wife, to *attempt* to
make his point. Hey there's a thought Davey, why don't you waterboard your
wife, just to show her and everyone else how safe and torture friendly
waterboarding is for everyone!

You're silly.



What you will never understand and what rw was attempting to get across to
you is that waterboarding is *absolutely* torture and beneath the dignity of
decent human beings. It's not a matter of whether or not there is pain--is
mental anguish painful? can you state it is not without fear of being
wrong?, please cite your sources that say there is no lasting physical
impairment from repeated acts of waterboarding, is the presence of blood an
indicator of torture? Again, please site your source for this one.

Read where I said I am not endorsing nor condemning it. What, they
don't teach reading in North Cackleacky? Idiot.



If you are willing to accept torture as a relevant means of interrogation,
then you are no better than those you believe deserve torture. So, let's
assume for the sake of argument that the person you torture is the wrong
person? Is it still righteous to waterboard them--do the ends justify the
means?



I suppose it would be proper--in your mind, not mine--to waterboard a 5 year
old child, who might possibly know something about his father's
whereabouts--his father is a well know terrorist, BTW, and is suspected of
carrying an atomic bomb, in a briefcase, on an American air carrier--we just
don't know which airlines, but the kid might, right! So, we should torture
the child, right.

Again, you show exactly how silly you really are.



Funny, just this evening, there was a report of a man who was wrongly
arrested for a certain crime. You know what the give-a-way was. The actual
criminal was a white man, but law enforcement agents arrested a black man
for the crime and imprisoned him, until it was finally determined that they
were actually looking for a WHITE MAN! For Christ-sake, if a black man can
be mistaken for a white man, what make you think our top-notch intelligence
agencies will always have the correct terrorist suspect!
Happens all the time. And it will continue to happen. And, no, I
don't think it is fair.


Virtually all professional interrogation specialists agree that torture will
gain you nothing more than what the subject will tell you, to end the
torture. Torture is a proven fallacy, if your aim is accurate intelligence
information. Oh, btw, waterbording is torture! Try it, you won't like it
anymore than any other tortured person has liked their waterboarding
experience.



If you condone torture, you are condoning the torture of American soldiers,
the very same soldiers, of whom you claim to be so proud!

And proud of them I am. But, in every war since I was born, American
soldiers WERE physically tortured - the Germans, Japanese, North Korea,
North Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. Whether or not we waterboard or have
Gitmo is not relevent. As Steve stated, waterboarding has not been
done since 2003, but torture of Americans continues.



Get your head out of your ass Davey, and at least use it as a hat rack.

Well, I will, Mark, if you promise to get your head out of Wolfgangs ass.





Op --P.S., if your only reply is to ask me about the kids I don't have or to
deflect the idiocy of your contention, it will only prove that you really
are an idiot! Please, try to cite reliable sources to make your
argument--Rush L. and Shawn H. are not reliable sources. Once you provide
your sources, I will provide my souces--Oh yeah, my sources will include
military intelligence experts, medical specialists, FBI and CIA records,
sources you should be able to site to support your contentions, except they
don't--really, it's true, they do not support you position.

Sources for what argument. Read again, silly little boy, I am neither
condemning nor endorsing waterboarding. It was a civil conversation
that Steve and I and then Richard were having until you stuck your
silly looking face into something that obviously you don't understand.

Oh, and perhaps you can tell me, Mark, why your hero Mr. O, hasn't
closed Gitmo? Could it be that it is the proper place afterall to
detain pows? I'm giving even money that the trials will be there.

Davey, aka Moron, Idiot, Pig, etc. ( And you are arguing with a moron,
idiot, pig, baby killer, baby torturer, etc. Speaks highly of your
"supposed" intelect.) Now, go make some REAL money and pay your taxes,
sonny. I need a new MB.