1. IMO, two weeks is too long to be away from one's home and those
you love...even when the adventure involves the company of good friends,
willing mentors, and fine fishing. Thanks to Indian Joe for
keeping it interesting and entertaining, and for being the best of
traveling companions. Thanks also to all who shared their moments with
me. Each year is better. Each year I notice something new - albeit
something that's been patently apparent to others. Montana is a
wondrous circumstance i doubt i'll ever tire of, and i'm grateful to
this place and all hereabouts that provided the impetus for my travels
west.

it was fun seeing several others in their first baptism in montana's
waters.

2. The salmon fly hatch will make a mediocre fisherman swell up with
confidence and provide many worthy subjects for photos. The end of the
salmon fly hatch brings reality and honesty back into the struggle.
There were a lot of 20+ inch fish caught this year in the Madison. The
water was lower, but the salmon fly hatch wasn't as prolific... there
was one day I'll never forget. adhd trout. Thank the goddesses, bruce
caught twice as many fish as i did in the same area...he's more than
twice the fisherman i will ever be, and a marvel on a stream, but he
confirmed my experience as real.

it was a hoot. the caddis fly hatch was just as productive after the
stones disappeared. little bugs and big fish. i "aged" on the madison.
i fished several other rivers as well, but the madison was constant.
it's a pleasant way to grow old. i shook hands with grayling, cutthroat,
brown, rainbow, and brookies. they said to give regards to y'all.

3. i met and enjoyed the company of several of the folks who were mere
names and typed words to me before july 6. all seemed fine folks in our
short contact, and i suspect them to be even better people in their
sustained relationships. i hope to see them again. met some new folks
as well - bevin, robin, harry. seemed like they'd always been a part of
the crowd - passionate fishermen all.

4. the occasion to be in the company of the western roff crowd is reason
enough to travel to montana. willi, danl, bruce, rw, john hightower,
mark tinsky. warren is a fine and sacrificial host...even encumbered
with duties to daughter and girlfriend, he exceeded all expectations -
thanks for the time and the copenhagen smiles.

5. wayno...hmmm. i have your cell phone. the wading boots...last i
saw, joe was bartering them for an acre or two of land...or a coffee
spoon. those were some big fish, eh? indian creek next year? ree was a
wise and pleasant addition to the scruffy crowd. she near about makes
you handsome, though apparently not to mormon girl scouts. but ree
confirmed the desirability of having more of the distaff side in
attendance. looking forward to seeing the photos she took.

6. One item on my agenda this year was selfish and sorta mean of
spirit. ...i harbored a need to confront an unpleasantry, and to find
and confirm a truth. it was a personal and ugly mission in most
respects.. one i felt compelled to follow to a resolution. it was a
scenic journey though. is there a Fawn Lake? Was ken fortenberry
correct in his claims that the lake was a myth and that i was stupid in
suggesting otherwise? i've been wrong many times in my life, but the
personal tone of ken's comments raised an indignant spark in me and a
need to discover the truth about the matter.

so... for some background...

On or about 17 August 2004, tim g posted and asked:

"...again, the goal here is, yes, to catch wild trout in a beatiful
place. The trip should place special emphasis on the hiking, camping,
scenery, wildlife, etc., as I'll be trying to encourage her [his wife]
to take more similar trips with me in the future, and it's currently
unclear whether the fishing alone will sell her on it. I know there are
a lot of good possibilities to choose from, but I'm hoping someone might
have personal experience to help me narrow my choices."

In response, I made an oblique comment in which I remarked on my
experience near the headwaters of the Gardner and the potential for
camping at or near Fawn Lake suggesting them as potential hiking,
camping, and/or fishing destinations away from the crowds. Ken,
commenting on my top-post, asserted the following:

"I'm saying you're stupid. Rude, stupid and lazy to be precise.
Go ahead and take a 3-day, 2-night backcountry camping trip into
the area you so stupidly recommended. That'll teach you.
But until you do you'd better be prepared to take the criticism
from those who know better."

and,

"This conversational Usenet barroom has its own unique conundrums, not
the least of which is the "who do you believe" dilemma when roff
regulars disagree on a fishing/trip/spot/campsite.

I am somewhat knowledgeable about Yellowstone and I don't post false
info here on roff."

and,

"Jeffie is an idiot"
[ok...he got that one right...but, not about the fawn lake thing.]

and,

"There is no Fawn Lake in Yellowstone you insufferable moron. There
is a Fawn Pass, I've crossed it, a Fawn Pass Trail, I've hiked it,
and a Fawn Creek, I've wet my hiking boots in it near where it
joins the Gardner at Gardners Hole. That is also the location of
the closest campsites on your recommended route. I would suggest
that you actually hike up there and camp and try to catch a tiny
fish before spouting ignorant advice here.

You gave the guy bad advice, not through malice I'm sure but because
you don't know jack**** about Yellowstone or backcountry camping and
of course, you're rude, stupid and lazy."


and, continuing his screed, ken said:

"There is no Fawn Lake. If you hike the five or six miles expecting to
find a lake to fish in you will be surprised to find that there is no
lake, only a swamp and about five acres of weeds. Fawn Lake is a myth.
Richard Parks who owns the only fly shop in Gardiner wrote a guidebook
in which he claims there are 24" brook trout in there. He's full of it,
but people still go there seeking the myth."


and, he also challenged:

"Well, just gather up three of your buddies, (the Park Service
usually requires groups of at least four in that area because
of the griz') and scoot on over there during the fishing season.
Let us know if you see a lake or a swamp and acres of weeds. No
camping, heroic or pedestrian, is required, it's only about a
two hour hike each way and there's no fishing to distract you
along the way. Kinda begs the question why this hike ever came
up in a backcountry hike/fish thread doesn't it?"


and, ken said:

"Read all the blurbs and outfitter advertising you want, I know better.
There is no Fawn Lake during practically the entire fishing season,
it's nothing but a mass of unfishable weeds surrounded by a swamp.
They sure do make it sound pretty, too bad it's bull****."


well, being the insufferable moron and lazy fuktard i admittedly am, and
not being one to avoid the great mystery, i figured on this year's trip
i'd try to see if fawn lake was the myth claimed by fortenberry...so,
heeding his challenge, i gathered up three "buddies" and we lit out in
search of fawn lake (as shown on the yellowstone map) or for whatever
was supposed to be fawn lake - weed bed, myth, whatever. my traveling
companions were neither fuktards nor morons, so i figured them as
believable witnesses. none of us knew what to expect. Giving the devil
his due, Ken frequently is accurate in his factual statements about a
great many things and he did spend a good bit of time in the Yellowstone
area.

Hell, he mighta been right...a hypothesis RDean suggested. In any
event, after the August 2004 rants, I determined i'd see who was
knowledgeable about the matter - ken, or yellowstone's map makers and
the locals.

....And...um....based on personal observation, with confirmation of
witnesses and photos... yes, Virginia, Ken, and RDean, there is a Fawn
Lake.

It's no myth. It was quite a nice and large mountain lake actually.
Choc, IJ, Warren, and I hiked up to it, saw it, and saw rising fish in
it. Warren reported seeing some trout in it swimming along the drop off
which he estimated at 18 inches. We saw it in mid-July - fishing season
in yellowstone. It was full of water. no weeds or swamp. pictures are
posted an abpf (large k).

Craig Matthews and at least one other West Yellowstone guide, affirmed
fawn lake never goes dry. It is definitely not a mass of unfishable
weeds surrounded by a swamp. It is a relatively large and deep mountain
lake at about 7800 feet elevation in a beautiful, remote setting. There
are lots of rising fish in the lake. it's worth the hike, for reasons
better than proving ken to be arrogant, stupid, insufferable, rude, and
wrong. of course, those are reasons enough to enjoy the sight of fawn lake.

hell, even a fuktard knows fawn lake ain't a myth.

jeff