is bigger better?

As we all know, most bugs come in a span of sizes, even in the same species
and watershed. It's possible to find PMDs from smallish 14s down to 20s
for instance on the water at one time, although a couple different species
are involved.

Now, I have experienced several times when the trout would only ( or mostly
only :-) take the smaller examples on the water.

My question ... have you ever seen times when trout got selective to the
bigger examples of the same insect type when more than one size was
available?

FWIW, I ask because I'm wondering if it is even worth carrying the big end
of the spectrum .... would a trout eating size 14 callibaetis, by example,
almost certainly eat a 16 ( they span about 14 to 17 in my waters ) .... if
not vice versa .... thus making tying and carrying the 14s senseless?


I can think of many times I've tried to "force" a bigger pattern down their
throats, but I can't remember STARTING out trying smaller ones ..... human
nature at work .... anyway do you remember ever having to use the bigger
pattern within a given insects size range?

Larry L wrote:

.... anyway do you remember ever having to use the bigger
pattern within a given insects size range?

On the San Juan, me and Willi and roffian X. After Willi and
roffian X tried to drown me crossing the stream on our way to
the group lunch we noticed a hatch of what looked like size 22
baetis just starting to come off. Hmmmm, we may have to be a
little bit late for lunch.

Me and Willi set up shop fairly close, roffian X was well
downstream. I'd been fishing with an 18 Adams, didn't see
any need to switch. I think Willi tied on similar.

roffian X reported that every time he saw me or Willi catch
a fish he would tie on a smaller fly until he ended up
fishing microscopic lint. He didn't catch much, while me
& Willi using flies WAY too big to match the hatch caught
several apiece. It should be noted that roffian X is a
SUPERB fly fisherman so he was either in the wrong place
or using the wrong size fly.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
. com...
Larry L wrote:

.... anyway do you remember ever having to use the bigger
pattern within a given insects size range?

On the San Juan, me and Willi and roffian X. After Willi and
roffian X tried to drown me crossing the stream on our way to
the group lunch we noticed a hatch of what looked like size 22
baetis just starting to come off. Hmmmm, we may have to be a
little bit late for lunch.

Me and Willi set up shop fairly close, roffian X was well
downstream. I'd been fishing with an 18 Adams, didn't see
any need to switch. I think Willi tied on similar.

roffian X reported that every time he saw me or Willi catch
a fish he would tie on a smaller fly until he ended up
fishing microscopic lint. He didn't catch much, while me
& Willi using flies WAY too big to match the hatch caught
several apiece. It should be noted that roffian X is a
SUPERB fly fisherman so he was either in the wrong place
or using the wrong size fly.

Sheesh, that reminds me of a story. A couple of years ago, me and Willi
and roffian Y were wading across a mild backwater, with the current lapping
gently around our knees. Willi and I stopped to discuss what appeared to be
hatch of tiny baettis that was just starting, when roffian Y started
screeching something getting about our asses out of the class 5 rapids that
was about to sweep him away.
At least that's how I remember it.

Larry L wrote:

As we all know, most bugs come in a span of sizes, even in the same species
and watershed. It's possible to find PMDs from smallish 14s down to 20s
for instance on the water at one time, although a couple different species
are involved.

Now, I have experienced several times when the trout would only ( or mostly
only :-) take the smaller examples on the water.

My question ... have you ever seen times when trout got selective to the
bigger examples of the same insect type when more than one size was
available?


I mostly have experience in fishing smaller Mayflies, so maybe with the
bigger flies it's different, however, with flies 16 and below, it's hard
to go too small but easy to go too big. I find that generally, if the fish
are going to be tough, they will readily take a fly smaller than that
on the water but seldom will take one bigger. That said, I do try and
use the largest fly I can and still have success. They're just easier to
see and you tend to get more solid hookups.

Willi

Charlie Wilson wrote:



Sheesh, that reminds me of a story. A couple of years ago, me and Willi
and roffian Y were wading across a mild backwater, with the current lapping
gently around our knees. Willi and I stopped to discuss what appeared to be
hatch of tiny baettis that was just starting, when roffian Y started
screeching something getting about our asses out of the class 5 rapids that
was about to sweep him away.
At least that's how I remember it.




Me too. except I remember also casting to a couple risers after the
discussion.

Ken has his "rules" about fly fishing and whether they apply to a
specific situation or not, they're rules damn it!

Willi

In June a couple of us were on Fishing Creek in Pa. The trout would take a
#20 Sulphur and nothing larger. Even soemthing as close as a #18 was
ignored by rising fish. Many times size makes more of a difference than the
configuration (dunn, spinner, etc.)



"Larry L" wrote in message
...
As we all know, most bugs come in a span of sizes, even in the same
species
and watershed. It's possible to find PMDs from smallish 14s down to 20s
for instance on the water at one time, although a couple different species
are involved.

Now, I have experienced several times when the trout would only ( or
mostly
only :-) take the smaller examples on the water.

My question ... have you ever seen times when trout got selective to the
bigger examples of the same insect type when more than one size was
available?

FWIW, I ask because I'm wondering if it is even worth carrying the big end
of the spectrum .... would a trout eating size 14 callibaetis, by example,
almost certainly eat a 16 ( they span about 14 to 17 in my waters ) ....
if
not vice versa .... thus making tying and carrying the 14s senseless?


I can think of many times I've tried to "force" a bigger pattern down
their
throats, but I can't remember STARTING out trying smaller ones ..... human
nature at work .... anyway do you remember ever having to use the bigger
pattern within a given insects size range?

In June a couple of us were on Fishing Creek in Pa. The trout would take a
#20 Sulphur and nothing larger. Even soemthing as close as a #18 was
ignored by rising fish. Many times size makes more of a difference than the
configuration (dunn, spinner, etc.)



"Larry L" wrote in message
...
As we all know, most bugs come in a span of sizes, even in the same
species
and watershed. It's possible to find PMDs from smallish 14s down to 20s
for instance on the water at one time, although a couple different species
are involved.

Now, I have experienced several times when the trout would only ( or
mostly
only :-) take the smaller examples on the water.

My question ... have you ever seen times when trout got selective to the
bigger examples of the same insect type when more than one size was
available?

FWIW, I ask because I'm wondering if it is even worth carrying the big end
of the spectrum .... would a trout eating size 14 callibaetis, by example,
almost certainly eat a 16 ( they span about 14 to 17 in my waters ) ....
if
not vice versa .... thus making tying and carrying the 14s senseless?


I can think of many times I've tried to "force" a bigger pattern down
their
throats, but I can't remember STARTING out trying smaller ones ..... human
nature at work .... anyway do you remember ever having to use the bigger
pattern within a given insects size range?

Willi & Sue wrote:
Charlie Wilson wrote:
Sheesh, that reminds me of a story. A couple of years ago, me and
Willi
and roffian Y were wading across a mild backwater, with the current
lapping
gently around our knees. Willi and I stopped to discuss what appeared
to be
hatch of tiny baettis that was just starting, when roffian Y started
screeching something getting about our asses out of the class 5 rapids
that
was about to sweep him away.
At least that's how I remember it.

Me too. except I remember also casting to a couple risers after the
discussion.

Ken has his "rules" about fly fishing and whether they apply to a
specific situation or not, they're rules damn it!

Yeah, go ahead and yuk it up you two, but the "dry balls" rule
has served me well and the older I get the more inviolable it
becomes.

--
Ken Fortenberry

On 11/28/04 4:57 PM, in article ,
"Willi & Sue" wrote:

Larry L wrote:

As we all know, most bugs come in a span of sizes, even in the same species
and watershed. It's possible to find PMDs from smallish 14s down to 20s
for instance on the water at one time, although a couple different species
are involved.

Now, I have experienced several times when the trout would only ( or mostly
only :-) take the smaller examples on the water.

My question ... have you ever seen times when trout got selective to the
bigger examples of the same insect type when more than one size was
available?


I mostly have experience in fishing smaller Mayflies, so maybe with the
bigger flies it's different, however, with flies 16 and below, it's hard
to go too small but easy to go too big. I find that generally, if the fish
are going to be tough, they will readily take a fly smaller than that
on the water but seldom will take one bigger. That said, I do try and
use the largest fly I can and still have success. They're just easier to
see and you tend to get more solid hookups.

Here's something I've been experiencing in the last two months or so. My
waters have not had much in the way of hatches- usually midges are the only
thing active. However, I observed occasional splashy rises- to who knows
what. So I experimented with using large-ish dry flies to see if I could
get the riser to do his thing, this after being frustrated by trying to fish
the impossible to see #22-ish olives and what have you. It has worked at
least a half dozen times- good trout making an opportunistic rise to
something that isn't hatching. In my case, I've been using #12 Adams. Fun
way to fish, too, especially in clear water when you can see the trout
making the approach.

Bill

On 11/28/04 4:57 PM, in article ,
"Willi & Sue" wrote:

Larry L wrote:

As we all know, most bugs come in a span of sizes, even in the same species
and watershed. It's possible to find PMDs from smallish 14s down to 20s
for instance on the water at one time, although a couple different species
are involved.

Now, I have experienced several times when the trout would only ( or mostly
only :-) take the smaller examples on the water.

My question ... have you ever seen times when trout got selective to the
bigger examples of the same insect type when more than one size was
available?


I mostly have experience in fishing smaller Mayflies, so maybe with the
bigger flies it's different, however, with flies 16 and below, it's hard
to go too small but easy to go too big. I find that generally, if the fish
are going to be tough, they will readily take a fly smaller than that
on the water but seldom will take one bigger. That said, I do try and
use the largest fly I can and still have success. They're just easier to
see and you tend to get more solid hookups.

Here's something I've been experiencing in the last two months or so. My
waters have not had much in the way of hatches- usually midges are the only
thing active. However, I observed occasional splashy rises- to who knows
what. So I experimented with using large-ish dry flies to see if I could
get the riser to do his thing, this after being frustrated by trying to fish
the impossible to see #22-ish olives and what have you. It has worked at
least a half dozen times- good trout making an opportunistic rise to
something that isn't hatching. In my case, I've been using #12 Adams. Fun
way to fish, too, especially in clear water when you can see the trout
making the approach.

Bill