Adams question

When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???


--riverman

riverman typed:
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

I wrap both at once. If I wrap one and then the other, I tend to mash some
of the barbs down on the first.

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???

Probably about the same time they started making the hooks smaller.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

Hi riverman,
Separately gives you more control about where the hackle is placed . . . and
I suggest you use a hackle pliers for the smaller creations. I've done, as
I suspect many here have done, played around with options. (but I have done
a twisting technique for some patterns . . .commercially . . .as I recall .
.. .but not sure if ever went into production . . .not relevant for here)

Uhh . . .tie two. . .different versions. . . show them to us. You may tell
the difference yourself. I sure can.
And . . .I suspect . . .it has come up before that "The Fly Tier's
Benchside Reference" may help you for techniques.

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???

Hmm... I seem to remember seeing a tier in Thailand that had no thumb,
pretty much, but tied a better fly than me with the other digits. . . every
day. . .and many more flies that I could tie in a day.
Anyhow,
DaveMohnsen
Denver

Dave Mohnsen typed:
"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

Hi riverman,
Separately gives you more control about where the hackle is placed .
. . and I suggest you use a hackle pliers for the smaller creations. I've
done, as I suspect many here have done, played around with
options. (but I have done a twisting technique for some patterns . .
.commercially . . .as I recall . . .but not sure if ever went into
production . . .not relevant for here)
Uhh . . .tie two. . .different versions. . . show them to us. You
may tell the difference yourself. I sure can. snip

I forgot to say that in my reply. Doing the hackles one at a time cetainly
produces a better looking fly to us humans, but I've not seen any difference
astream. So. . . tying for a swap, I'd do the one-hackle-at-a-time method,
for my fly box, the easier of the two. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj/

"riverman" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
oups.com...
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???


--riverman


Separately is better. It is quite easy to wind the second hackle through the
first, although it may not appear to be so at first. As with all these
things, a little practice is required.

Just be grateful that your thumbs are not as big as the middle fingers on my
left hand! My neihgbour accidentally, ( I hope! ) slammed the door on
them, and I can assure you that a single, more or less "unopposed", thumb on
one hand is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard!

TL
MC

riverman wrote:
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???


--riverman

I'm sure you've gotten some good advice, but the *real* solution is to get
yourself a grade-a cree neck and just use that...

OK, I don't have, nor have I ever seen a really nice cree neck. But, I have
a really nice golden grizzly (dyed) neck I that I use. Golden brown and
black barred feathers. I think that "two different colored hackles" stuff
is too fussy.
--
Stan Gula
near 'nuff is good 'nuff

"Stan Gula" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:aHjlf.2025$Kg5.1972@trndny06...
riverman wrote:
When wrapping the hackle, do you find any difference between wrapping
the two colored hackles separately, or at once?

And when did my thumbs get so damn big???


--riverman

I'm sure you've gotten some good advice, but the *real* solution is to get
yourself a grade-a cree neck and just use that...

OK, I don't have, nor have I ever seen a really nice cree neck. But, I
have
a really nice golden grizzly (dyed) neck I that I use. Golden brown and
black barred feathers. I think that "two different colored hackles" stuff
is too fussy.
--
Stan Gula
near 'nuff is good 'nuff



That is first class advice, which is very nearly as rare as first class Cree
necks! At one time, and not all that long ago, Cree necks were to be
found in the "seconds" bin, along with all the other **** that the dealer
could not otherwise sell! Usually marked as "variegated", or a host of
similar euphemisms meaning ( I don´t know what it is , but I want to sell
it anyway). ( Lovely word that, "variegated", rhymes with "excoriated").

On the other hand, an Adams requires two hackles, otherwise it is not an
Adams, just a general hamfisted ****up, of which there are far too many
nowadays.

( No offence Stan!)

Come on Myron, dont be lazy, learn how to do it. It is not as if anybody is
asking you to keep a mob of ungrateful and singularly stupid kids in check,
or, even worse teach them something, now is it?

TL
MC ( Still only on his third whisky, but seriously contemplating the fifth)

Mike Connor wrote:
On the other hand, an Adams requires two hackles, otherwise it is not
an Adams, just a general hamfisted ****up, of which there are far too
many nowadays.

( No offence Stan!)

Why would I take offence? My point (which you probably know) is that an
Adams is an OK fly, but too fussy. I'll go heretic for a moment and say I
rarely ever follow a named pattern exactly. I *could*, and I *have*, but
don't *want*. That's the freedom of rolling your own, isn't it? Mixing the
hackle fibers for the tail and then winding a double hackle on a fly that's
just a 'near nuff' kind of fly in the first place is, well, too much work.
(I'm not really lazy, just frugal with my time, yeah, that's the ticket)
Given the quality of modern hackle, I see little reason ever to use two
hackles. First off the new hackles are so long you can get plenty of winds
from a single feather (and often multiple flies from a single feather) and
the barb density is such that overwinding is hardly ever needed. 4 or 5
turns of a beautiful grade a feather (Whiting silver or better for example)
is plenty. So, to repeat myself, although it not really an 'Adams', I think
a nice grayish bodied dun (or even better, an olive/gray mix) with golden or
brown dyed grizzly is near nuff to an Adams if you catch my (not quite
dragless) drift. Likewise, I don't even bother with grizzly hackle tip
wings. I use a nice medium dun hen neck or brown dyed mallark flank. ****,
I don't think I've tied a 'real Adams' in 15 years.

TL
MC ( Still only on his third whisky, but seriously contemplating the
fifth)

I wish I could join you.
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

Stan Gula wrote:
snip
Likewise, I don't even bother with grizzly hackle tip
wings. I use a nice medium dun hen neck or brown dyed mallark flank. ****,
I don't think I've tied a 'real Adams' in 15 years. ...

Hell, I can one-up you in the laz ... er "frugal with time"
category. I don't tie in wings at all anymore.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Stan Gula wrote:
Mike Connor wrote:
On the other hand, an Adams requires two hackles, otherwise it is not
an Adams, just a general hamfisted ****up, of which there are far too
many nowadays.

( No offence Stan!)

Why would I take offence? My point (which you probably know) is that an
Adams is an OK fly, but too fussy. I'll go heretic for a moment and say I
rarely ever follow a named pattern exactly. I *could*, and I *have*, but
don't *want*. That's the freedom of rolling your own, isn't it? Mixing the
hackle fibers for the tail and then winding a double hackle on a fly that's
just a 'near nuff' kind of fly in the first place is, well, too much work.


I've started an experiment, by the way. After tying an Adams, I always
have two feathers without tips (which were sacrificed for the upwings),
a piece of Brown and another piece of Grizzly from the hackle, and a
pinch of dubbing. So I tie a 'NearNuff" with the leftovers. I use the
tipless hackles for the new upwings (which look truncated at this
point), snip a bit off the midsection of one of the feathers to
generate fibers for the tail, wrap the thorax with the leftover dubbing
(plus a pinch of new, if needed. Dubbing is cheap), then I use the
second tipless feather for the hackle, along with the remnant of the
brown hackle. Last of all, I trip the (rather weird) wings into shape.

So far, my 'NearNuff' flies don't look to unappetizing, assuming that
old adage about the ugliest flies catching the most fish. In fact, they
look almost normal, just not as 'delicate'. I look forward to trying
out some of these on the river, or at least sending them around in a
'practical fly' flyswap. (A 'practical fly' meaning one that is tied
for fishing, not for showing.)

--riverman