Synthetic Dubbing Color Retention

It seems that some of my newer synthetic dubbings do not do a good job
of retaining their color either when wet by fly flotant or by water.
Can anyone share the brands of dubbings that they find retain their
color even when wet?

Thanks,
Jeff

I don't think color retention is an issue, but translucency is. When
synthetic dubbings get wet they get translucent which allows the darker
color of the hook to show through. This makes the dubbing appear
darker. Nearly all synthetic dubbings will do this. Your options
a

1. Don't care and just go fishing - flies probably still work OK
2. Go lighter on the dubbing to compensate - this is a problem with
real light colors.
3. Make a light underbody. i.e. paint shank white or use a white
thread or tinsel underwrap. Using a tinsel can give an interesting
translucent glow to a wet body. Using colored threads can add
interesting results too. For example, using a bright orange thread
under a light yellow dubbed body is one way to get the translucent
light orange look of some caddis larvae. The Leisenring wet fly bodies
are always tied using the color of the thread showing through the wet
dubbing to get the final color.


--
JeffK
------------------------------------------------------------------------
JeffK's Profile: http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulleti...php?userid=334
View this thread: http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulleti...ad.php?t=12399


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

wrote in message
ups.com...
It seems that some of my newer synthetic dubbings do not do a good job
of retaining their color either when wet by fly flotant or by water.
Can anyone share the brands of dubbings that they find retain their
color even when wet?

Thanks,
Jeff


Jeff,
Synthetic dubbings are long known to go transparent when wet, thus making
everything look like the thread color with a touch of bronzed steel thrown
in. Natural
dubbings work much better, dyed or natural. Just go a
bit lighter than the desired final result, because any absorbant substance
darkens when wet(or soaked with
floatant). Then again, you can use quill bodies(or biots)
for the lightest colors, if possible, and get segmentation
to boot!!
Tom

I like the trout hunter House of Harrop caddis/emerger dubbing when it
comes to synthetics. It holds its color well and fools some finicky
fish. The colors are very unique also... I like the rusty olive. As a
side not I would opt to stay away from gel and gink flotants as they
will change the color of the fly.

Keep in mind that certain flotants add color to their flotants also
like Loons Royal gel or aquel I believe.


--
theartoflee

He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains
a fool forever.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
theartoflee's Profile: http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulleti...php?userid=876
View this thread: http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulleti...ad.php?t=12399


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Thanks guys,
A couple of years ago I performed some wet dubbing tests and
photographed the wet twists of dubbing against the original color
(dry). In fact, Hare Tron demonstrated the best color retention, and
many of the ultra fine synthetics performed the worst. Some of my
more course synthetics, like Ligas Ultra Fine and Fly Rite come pretty
close to their package color.

Looks like I have a fun winter project sorting and testing twenty five
years of dubbing purchases (LOL), and dispensing of those that don't
meet my pattern requirements.

I do use natural materials for fly bodies, but like the ability to get
tight durable bodies with synthetics. That's right Tom, you reminded
me of the 8 or so biot colors I purchased a couple of years to
experiment with. Maybe we'll finally get to meet on Penns in
September/October.

Thanks again,
Jeff

On Sat, 1 Sep 2007 14:02:07 -0400, "jeffc" wrote:


"JeffK" wrote in message
...

I don't think color retention is an issue, but translucency is.

You might be right and you might be wrong. Probably, you are right.
Actually, I have nothing to say, but I thought it interesting if 3 Jeffs in
a row posted here. Maybe Jeff M will reply and we'll make a new record.
JeffC

I think you're all right. And tasty, too, I bet!
JeffD

On Aug 29, 8:59 pm, wrote:
Thanks guys,
A couple of years ago I performed some wet dubbing tests and
photographed the wet twists of dubbing against the original color
(dry). In fact, Hare Tron demonstrated the best color retention, and
many of the ultra fine synthetics performed the worst. Some of my
more course synthetics, like Ligas Ultra Fine and Fly Rite come pretty
close to their package color.

Looks like I have a fun winter project sorting and testing twenty five
years of dubbing purchases (LOL), and dispensing of those that don't
meet my pattern requirements.

I do use natural materials for fly bodies, but like the ability to get
tight durable bodies with synthetics. That's right Tom, you reminded
me of the 8 or so biot colors I purchased a couple of years to
experiment with. Maybe we'll finally get to meet on Penns in
September/October.

Thanks again,
Jeff

Adding some factors he with fibers, both synthetic and natural,
there are other visual differences that occur under different wetting
environments (water, of course, but also oily paraffinic goops and
silicones). The first factor I address is the index of refraction of
the fiber - the closer it is to the medium such as water, the more
transparent/translucent (not the same thing) it will get.

Then the various synthetics have different surface treatments, which
can keep wetting and therefore the index/refraction thang from
operating as fast.

Surface morphology is a big factor. Gary LaFontaine, in his pursuit
of the emergent gaseous bubble sheaf of the caddis pupae, tried many
things in his too-short career, and most famously settled on Antron
for its trilobal structure which promoted tiny microbubbles.

But under a sufficiently strong microscope, hairs are actually covered
with different scales. The iridescent 'blue' of some butterflies is
actually a diffractive effect, and there is no blue coloration
inherent in their wings. Those wonder microfiber cloths which clean
grime off glasses have microstructures and surface treatment that grab
the crud, rather than just pushing the slime around.

In my early tying days, I was trying to dream up a dub version of the
(PA) locally infamous Honey Bug, which is made of specially treated
cotton chenille rather than the usual rayon or whatever. The original
stuff really wetted out and made the grub look really slimy and
translucent and presumably more delectable to the trouts. At one end
of the spectrum (so to speak) was rabbit fur; the opposite was seal
and 1st generation coarse synthetic Jack's dubbing, which might have
been polyolefinic and rather water repellent. Other furs (beaver,
cat, otter, fitch, opposum, coyote, deer hair fuzz, muskrat, marten,
etc.) and synthetics fell in between.

Incidentally, you can get some very interesting effect by not only
using different color threads but by also interdispersing contrasting
color coarse fibers into the dubbing mix. For instance very coarse
fluorescent red Antron with underfur from rabbit (not hare's) and
opposum looks neat when wet. Too bad I don't really nymph much
anymore.

tl
les

"lestrout" wrote in message
oups.com...

snipped good stuff

les, good to hear from you. Hope all is well! You've clearly given this
fiber thing a deeper look than my generalized natural v. synthetic. You
bring up one great point regarding floating flies insofar as some dubbings
are impregnated with water resistant chemicals. Such dubbings untreated
would avoid the usual wetting effects, so long as no "floatants" were
applied.
With the exception of the use of antron or other trilobals
for bubble retention, I have yet to find a synthetic dubbing I liked for
subsurface, and I always mix the trilobals in with some natural fur.
Tom

all dubings will change to some degree when wet, back in the day
(leisinring) used this to an advantage..useing different threads with
different dubbings..we do the same with our dubbings..and post it on
the packages..


--
sandfly

sandfly/bob
flyfishing instructor, tying and shop owner
http://tinyurl.com/3x53lq
N.J.B.B.A.2215
formally bucks now tioga co. pa.
there's a fine between sane and Insane !

I did not escape----They gave me a day pass !!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
sandfly's Profile: http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulleti...hp?userid=1159
View this thread: http://www.njflyfishing.com/vBulleti...ad.php?t=12399


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----