OT To brine or not to brine ...

I go back and forth on this one. On the one hand brining the
turkey does make the breast meat more juicy and tender but
on the other hand it waters down the taste. Harold McGee has
one of his occasional columns in the Dining section of today's
Times; http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/dining/12curi.html
and he's a no-briner.

My latest method of attack on the holiday bird is flipping.
That's right, I flip the bird. ;-) I start it breast side
down in a 300 F oven for 30-45 minutes depending on size,
flip it one wing up and then the other wing up for about
20 minutes apiece, then increase the heat to 450 F flip it
breast side up and cook til done. The 450 degree oven browns
the bird nicely. Like McGee, I don't listen to that 160 F
nonsense. When the deepest part of the breast gets to 145
on the old thermal meter, that bird is done.

I've tried several different ways since we started getting
the free range, never frozen birds about 10 years ago, brine,
no brine, high heat fast, low heat slow, but flipping the
bird is the method I've finally settled on. I don't know how
it would work on the typical frozen Butterball but it works
out well on the birds we get.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I go back and forth on this one. On the one hand brining the
turkey does make the breast meat more juicy and tender but
on the other hand it waters down the taste. Harold McGee has
one of his occasional columns in the Dining section of today's
Times; http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/dining/12curi.html
and he's a no-briner.

My latest method of attack on the holiday bird is flipping.
That's right, I flip the bird. ;-) I start it breast side
down in a 300 F oven for 30-45 minutes depending on size,
flip it one wing up and then the other wing up for about
20 minutes apiece, then increase the heat to 450 F flip it
breast side up and cook til done. The 450 degree oven browns
the bird nicely. Like McGee, I don't listen to that 160 F
nonsense. When the deepest part of the breast gets to 145
on the old thermal meter, that bird is done.

I've tried several different ways since we started getting
the free range, never frozen birds about 10 years ago, brine,
no brine, high heat fast, low heat slow, but flipping the
bird is the method I've finally settled on. I don't know how
it would work on the typical frozen Butterball but it works
out well on the birds we get.


If I roast my bird on the spit I always roast it breast side down. Make
a big difference in the quality of the breast meat.

I take the bird to 160 on the thermometer thought I would prefer 150. My
wife can be a Nervous Nelly about undercooked food.

Russell

Years ago, Joanne talked me into using a brown in bag. Cooked slowly,
the bird always comes out perfectly. The kids and several friends
will be at our table this year. First time in a few years that we
have hosted the dinner.

I am looking forward to it, not so much for the family gathering (we
do that often anyway), but for the smells. Nothing smells better than
a kitchen at Thanksgiving (or Christmas) Dinner. Roasting turkey,
squash, mashing potatoes, making my own cranberry sauce (relish),
small onions cooked in a cream sauce. It is just a great time for
all. Joanne now does the turkey and I do everything else. The kids
clean up.

Dave

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
...
Like McGee, I don't listen to that 160 F
nonsense. When the deepest part of the breast gets to 145
on the old thermal meter, that bird is done.


and, in the unfortunate circumstance that the bird has been carrying
salmonella species, you'll be done for a while, yourself. There is a reason
for that 160 degree mark, beyond simple 'doneness'.

I've tried several different ways since we started getting
the free range, never frozen birds about 10 years ago, brine,
no brine, high heat fast, low heat slow, but flipping the
bird is the method I've finally settled on. I don't know how
it would work on the typical frozen Butterball but it works
out well on the birds we get.

doubtful of free-range status, but we get fresh, never frozen birds locally.
I do, with larger birds, start with higher heat, breast side down, but flip
it upright after about 1 hour and keep it breast up from there out. Properly
basted from that point on, I've had no complaints about the taste and
texture of the breast meat.
Still, I have always been a fan of the leg meat on turkeys,
so, perhaps am not that critical of the finer details of the breast meat.
Tom

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I go back and forth on this one.

I've brined for about the past 20 years and I'm very pleased with the
results. I usually cook a very large turkey, and I think the brining is
especially effective for large birds, to avoid the drying-out of long
cooking times.

I don't know what the NYT expert is talking about when he says the
drippings of a brined turkey aren't suitable for gravy. I make gravy
with them, I get lots of compliments on it.

BTW, my family's tradition (German/American) is to serve sauerkraut with
roast turkey. Some guests are at first appalled, but they usually come
around.

I don't use a thermometer -- just eyeball it.

Pretty soon it will be time to get out the good silver.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Tom Littleton wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
Like McGee, I don't listen to that 160 F
nonsense. When the deepest part of the breast gets to 145
on the old thermal meter, that bird is done.

and, in the unfortunate circumstance that the bird has been carrying
salmonella species, you'll be done for a while, yourself. There is a reason
for that 160 degree mark, beyond simple 'doneness'.

Yeah, I know and never, ever eat raw eggs. Phooey, I say.
I like Caesar salad done right, I like carbonara done right,
I like the eggs on my Eggs Benedict done right and I like my
turkey done right. Nobody here has ever got sick from one of
my birds yet. And besides, the bird continues to cook while
it's sitting in its foil tent on the cutting board.

I've tried several different ways since we started getting
the free range, never frozen birds about 10 years ago, brine,
no brine, high heat fast, low heat slow, but flipping the
bird is the method I've finally settled on. I don't know how
it would work on the typical frozen Butterball but it works
out well on the birds we get.

doubtful of free-range status, but we get fresh, never frozen birds locally.
I do, with larger birds, start with higher heat, breast side down, but flip
it upright after about 1 hour and keep it breast up from there out. Properly
basted from that point on, I've had no complaints about the taste and
texture of the breast meat.
Still, I have always been a fan of the leg meat on turkeys,
so, perhaps am not that critical of the finer details of the breast meat.

I don't know what free-range means exactly but I've seen the farm
where these birds are kept. We used to have to drive to the farm
itself to pick them up before they opened a brick & mortar store
in a small town just up the Interstate. The turkeys roam over about
160 acres (one section) of rural Champaign County but they are fenced
in. The most important thing for us is no antibiotics, so technically
free-range or not, they're fresh and never frozen.

--
Ken Fortenberry

rw wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
I go back and forth on this one.

I've brined for about the past 20 years and I'm very pleased with the
results. ...

How long do you brine ? I've never heard of McGee's brining method
where you brine for a few days then let the bird dry out for a day
or two. When I brine I do it overnight the night before, no more
than 18 hours max, and then I rinse and roast the next day.

BTW, my family's tradition (German/American) is to serve sauerkraut with
roast turkey. Some guests are at first appalled, but they usually come
around.

Braised sauerkraut is soul food, one cannot have a proper feast
without sauerkraut.

--
Ken Fortenberry

My latest method of attack on the holiday bird is flipping.
That's right, I flip the bird. ;-) I start it breast side
down in a 300 F oven for 30-45 minutes depending on size,
flip it one wing up and then the other wing up for about
20 minutes apiece, then increase the heat to 450 F flip it
breast side up and cook til done. The 450 degree oven browns
the bird nicely. Like McGee, I don't listen to that 160 F
nonsense. When the deepest part of the breast gets to 145
on the old thermal meter, that bird is done.
Flipping and packing the breast in ice pre cooking seem to be the
latest fads in turkey chefing. McKee says cook breast meat to no more
than 155 and leg meat to no less than 165. I do that by
cooking/smoking on the grill with the heat coming from the outside
bottom and try to regulate temps by using foil to deflect a lot of the
radiant heat. Got a nifty digital meat thermometer this year so I'll
be poking the bird full of holes to get a better handle on how it is
doing.

I've tried several different ways since we started getting
the free range, never frozen birds about 10 years ago, brine,
no brine, high heat fast, low heat slow, but flipping the
bird is the method I've finally settled on.
With your free range, no sodium solution injected birds you have an
absolutely clean slate. I'm retired so I only can afford the birds
that have had their weight pumped up by various production methods.
The few times I have had uninjected birds brining really paid off.
More tender and I knew what went into them.
The salty drippings McKee warns about actually are a plus in my
cooking as we collect them and their hickory smoked flavor makes
astounding gravy.
My son's best friend has only missed stopping by a few times in the
last 25 years for a bit of our turkey & gravy before he goes to eat at
his folk's house.
I take that as a compliment.

Kiyu

Ken Fortenberry wrote:
rw wrote:

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

I go back and forth on this one.


I've brined for about the past 20 years and I'm very pleased with the
results. ...


How long do you brine ? I've never heard of McGee's brining method
where you brine for a few days then let the bird dry out for a day
or two. When I brine I do it overnight the night before, no more
than 18 hours max, and then I rinse and roast the next day.

That's pretty much what I do. Maybe 24 hours.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Nov 12, 5:29*pm, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:
Yeah, I know and never, ever eat raw eggs. Phooey, I say.
I like Caesar salad done right, I like carbonara done right,
I like the eggs on my Eggs Benedict done right and I like my
turkey done right. Nobody here has ever got sick from one of
my birds yet. And besides, the bird continues to cook while
it's sitting in its foil tent on the cutting board.

I hear ya; but today I got a rather unpleasant stomach from a plate of
nigiri. One of my favorite places, never happened before, and it
won't keep me from going back for more; but ya just never know.

Joe F.