They keep spitting out my flies

Hi All,

I figure you guys have already solve this problem!
So, here goes. On my favorite river, at my favorite
hole, there is a spot where I can not keep my line
tense with the rapid. I catch no fish on a fly
here. When the fly get to the point where I can
put a tiny amount of tension on the line, I catch
a ton of fish.

If I switch to a salmon egg, no problem anywhere.
After watching Ozzie's "Feeding Lies"
http://www.underwateroz.com/
several times, I have my answer. Trout
have a strong sense of taste in their lips and
spit my fly out in less than half a second.
This explains the salmon egg verses the fly:
the egg tastes right.

I was thinking of dipping my fly into my salmon egg
bottle, but... Besides learning how to tighten up
my line in this annoying rapid, have any of you come
up with a method to keep my/your dinner from spitting
out your flies when your line is not tight enough?
Add an oder? Swear?

Many thanks,
-T

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:53:16 -0700, Todd wrote:

Hi All,

I figure you guys have already solve this problem!
So, here goes. On my favorite river, at my favorite
hole, there is a spot where I can not keep my line
tense with the rapid. I catch no fish on a fly
here. When the fly get to the point where I can
put a tiny amount of tension on the line, I catch
a ton of fish.

If I switch to a salmon egg, no problem anywhere.
After watching Ozzie's "Feeding Lies"
http://www.underwateroz.com/
several times, I have my answer. Trout
have a strong sense of taste in their lips and
spit my fly out in less than half a second.
This explains the salmon egg verses the fly:
the egg tastes right.

I was thinking of dipping my fly into my salmon egg
bottle, but... Besides learning how to tighten up
my line in this annoying rapid, have any of you come
up with a method to keep my/your dinner from spitting
out your flies when your line is not tight enough?
Add an oder? Swear?

Many thanks,
-T


If you're fishing wets the answer is counter-intuitive. Learn to do a
slip strike. You're pulling the fly out of the fishes mouth.

"Another method used when swinging a fly down stream is a slip strike.
This is accomplished by having a small loop of line between the reel
and your rod hand index finger. When a hit is detected let the loop
slip through your index finger and then set the hook. This technique
can cut down on short takes resulting in missed fish.'
-http://www.flyfishingwis.com/html/streamers.html

OTOH, if salmon eggs work for you, then why bother with flies?

hth

Geo C.

George Cleveland wrote:

If you're fishing wets the answer is counter-intuitive. Learn to do a
slip strike. You're pulling the fly out of the fishes mouth.

Hi George,

This presumes I can feel the strike. I can not. It also
presumes the trout likes what it tastes and doesn't instantly
spit it out.

I have about 4 feet of slack and a bad ass current to contend
with. When I can get my dead drift to the point where I an
feel a strike, I have no problems with a fly -- the fish kind
of set the hook themselves. (Total fun, by the way.)

Bearing in mind, I only have about a half a second to respond
before my nasty tasting fly gets spit out. You should see Ozzie's
videos. Watching underwater video of trout operating from a
feeding lie will really open your eyes. I love the part where
a trout will test a leaf or a twig. If it don't taste right, it
gets spit out real fast. Ozzie makes the point: if this had been
your fly, would you have even know?

OTOH, if salmon eggs work for you, then why bother with flies?

A little background. If I get off early, I jump over to my
favorite hole for about and hour before sundown. Last Wednesday,
in the space of and hour and a half, I caught about twenty
Rainbows, about eight to nine inches each. I sent them all
back to their mothers. My heart is still in my chest - I am
happy to catch any size fish. (These were all wild trout by the
way: excellent fins, par marks on their sides, no spots on
their tummies, fought like hell.)

So to answer your question:

1) it is more fun to use a fly. My fish fight much harder
when hooked with a fly in the lip than gut hooked with bait

2) I have NEVER gut hooked a fish with a fly (if not set quickly,
they get spit out real fast)

3) I get tired of tying new hooks to my leader after cutting
off a gut hooked fish (I wonder if this eventually kills
the fish?)

4) I get tired of having to bait my hooks all the time

5) eggs are messy

-T

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:53:16 -0700, Todd wrote:

Trout
have a strong sense of taste in their lips and
spit my fly out in less than half a second.

Taaaadaaaa. By jeeves ya got it, lad. You have to know when the fly
is in the little guy's mouth and react before that 'half a secod" is
over. Try watching your line/leader junction while you are drifting
the fly. If it hesitates or stops, set the hook. Or, you can use a
strike indicator - if it hesitates or stops, set the hook.

To dip a fly into *any* solution that adds taste or smell is cheating,
and in most states illegal to boot.

Dave

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:09:01 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

To dip a fly into *any* solution that adds taste or smell is cheating,
and in most states illegal to boot.

Add: "in fly fishing only waters."

Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:09:01 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

To dip a fly into *any* solution that adds taste or smell is cheating,
and in most states illegal to boot.

Add: "in fly fishing only waters."

I was wondering!

This is a put and take stream. Although, this year
they planted it with galizzions of 5" browns.

I usually only keep 11" plus and then only
enough to fill my frying pan. Trout's fake
was sealed when the Lord create butter, salt,
pepper, Rosemary, Garlic... He must of been
happy with some of us when he created trout too.

I am thinking of adding an extra split shot to try
to get at the feeding lies under the rapid where
the water is still. And, to add a tiny bit of extra
tension. This does pose a problem when the water
above the fly is in post run off volume. For some
reason, this stream, trout love it dead under the
rapid. I very seldom catch one in the transition
side water. It is not like any other stream I
have fished. (I had to fish this stream for three
years before I started to catch fish.)

And, I have also noticed that a tiny bit of
side ways motion to alter the dead drift just
slightly gets more strikes.

-T

On Jun 22, 8:46*pm, Todd wrote:
Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:09:01 -0400, Dave LaCourse
wrote:

To dip a fly into *any* solution that adds taste or smell is cheating,
and in most states illegal to boot. *

Add: *"in fly fishing only waters."

I was wondering!

This is a put and take stream. *Although, this year
they planted it with galizzions of 5" browns.

I usually only keep 11" plus and then only
enough to fill my frying pan. *Trout's fake
was sealed when the Lord create butter, salt,
pepper, Rosemary, Garlic... *He must of been
happy with some of us when he created trout too.

I am thinking of adding an extra split shot to try
to get at the feeding lies under the rapid where
the water is still. *And, to add a tiny bit of extra
tension. *This does pose a problem when the water
above the fly is in post run off volume. *For some
reason, this stream, trout love it dead under the
rapid. *I very seldom catch one in the transition
side water. *It is not like any other stream I
have fished. *(I had to fish this stream for three
years before I started to catch fish.)

And, I have also noticed that a tiny bit of
side ways motion to alter the dead drift just
slightly gets more strikes.

-T

My father was a tool and die maker. He once constructed a device that
works on the same fundmental principle as the familiar spring loaded
mouse trap, except that rather than the squarish wire bale that does
the work in the latter, this one had a single barbed spear point that
slammed down on the fish's head, impaling it on a rubber coated anvil
and making escape impossible. I think something like this is what you
are looking for. Aside from that, the advice you really need has
little to do with angling. The good news is that if you stick around
here for a while......you'll get it.

g.
get it?

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:11:52 -0700, Todd wrote:

George Cleveland wrote:

If you're fishing wets the answer is counter-intuitive. Learn to do a
slip strike. You're pulling the fly out of the fishes mouth.

Hi George,

This presumes I can feel the strike. I can not. It also
presumes the trout likes what it tastes and doesn't instantly
spit it out.

I have about 4 feet of slack and a bad ass current to contend
with. When I can get my dead drift to the point where I an
feel a strike, I have no problems with a fly -- the fish kind
of set the hook themselves. (Total fun, by the way.)

Bearing in mind, I only have about a half a second to respond
before my nasty tasting fly gets spit out. You should see Ozzie's
videos. Watching underwater video of trout operating from a
feeding lie will really open your eyes. I love the part where
a trout will test a leaf or a twig. If it don't taste right, it
gets spit out real fast. Ozzie makes the point: if this had been
your fly, would you have even know?

OTOH, if salmon eggs work for you, then why bother with flies?

A little background. If I get off early, I jump over to my
favorite hole for about and hour before sundown. Last Wednesday,
in the space of and hour and a half, I caught about twenty
Rainbows, about eight to nine inches each. I sent them all
back to their mothers. My heart is still in my chest - I am
happy to catch any size fish. (These were all wild trout by the
way: excellent fins, par marks on their sides, no spots on
their tummies, fought like hell.)

So to answer your question:

1) it is more fun to use a fly. My fish fight much harder
when hooked with a fly in the lip than gut hooked with bait

2) I have NEVER gut hooked a fish with a fly (if not set quickly,
they get spit out real fast)

3) I get tired of tying new hooks to my leader after cutting
off a gut hooked fish (I wonder if this eventually kills
the fish?)

4) I get tired of having to bait my hooks all the time

5) eggs are messy

-T


Why do you have four feet of slack? You might want to practice doing
various mends and reach casts.

But frankly a modest amount of slack isn't going to make much
difference. Fly lines aren't very stretchy and even a line with a fair
amount of slack will transmit force to some degree when you strike. In
fact you can have too tight of connection to your fly. I don't think
Jesus himself could get a dead drift on a tight line.

It could be that the fish are responding to the inadvertent motion you
are giving to the fly when you attempt to keep your line tight. Most
bugs exhibit some degree of motion in the water. Even in those classic
mayfly hatches, the bugs will twitch and struggle before they take
off. The only aquatic insect event that I can think of that involves
motionless bugs is at the tail end of a spinnerfall, after all the
bugs have died and drifted downstream for quite a ways.
(They flop around like anything when they first hit the water.)

Before you start the dubious practice of dipping your fly in salmon
egg juice (If it works they'll swallow your fly just like the eggs and
flies cost a lot more than salmon eggs.), why not experiment with line
handling variations and even casting position changes in the stream?
I'd be surprised if one or more solutions aren't possible and when you
do figure it out you'll be able to have pride in your accomplishment
and not stunt your development as an angler by using ethically
questionable props.

George Cleveland wrote:

Why do you have four feet of slack? You might want to practice doing
various mends and reach casts.

The cast hits in the middle of a spring runoff rapid.
I am trying to get the fly and split shot down under
this water column to the slow water and feeding lies
underneath this extremely fast column of water.
(This all goes away when the runoff ends in about
a month.)

If I put any tension on the line, the line and fly
acts like a sail. Think of a water skier behind a
power boat. I hate to add more weight (slip shots)
but I think I just may have to.

stunt your development as an angler by using ethically
questionable props

I am trying as much as possible to get away from
bait. Flies are great fun to fish with!

-T

George Cleveland wrote:
... not stunt your development as an angler by using ethically
questionable props.

George,

Bait is allowed, even minnows on this stream. Please
explain what you mean by "ethically questionable". What
am I missing?

-T