OT.....on books...

I say it is a cost cutting move but really I just wanted to change things a
bit and I got rid of cable TV.

All my news now come from the net ad I have found the library to be great
source of old movies and I have started to read again.

Some interesting books have been:

"A Peoples History of American Empire" by Howard Zinn...when you read
something by Zinn you truly understand that history is written by the
victors. This book should be required reading in any High School History
call and besides, it is illustrated comic book style and it is a quick and
enlightening read....

Another book was:

"1491" by Charles Mann. do the double N's at the end of each name mean
anything? It is a description of the north and south American continents
the day before the white man landed...the research is excellent, the foot
notes are meticulous...and excellent read. I highly recommend you to read it
Joe...

....special thanks to Rdean for keeping me alive in New Orleans....

john

nice.....

btw: i find "the news" to be a very interesting business.......





On Nov 15, 7:31*pm, "John B" wrote:
I say it is a cost cutting move but really I just wanted to change things a
bit and I got rid of cable TV.

All my news now come from the net ad I have found the library to be great
source of old movies and I have started to read again.

Some interesting books have been:

"A Peoples History of American Empire" by Howard Zinn...when you read
something by Zinn you truly understand that history is written by the
victors. This book should be required reading in any High School History
call and besides, it is illustrated comic book style and it is a quick and
enlightening read....

Another book was:

"1491" by Charles Mann. do the double N's at the end of each name mean
anything? * It is a description of the north and south American continents
the day before the white man landed...the research is excellent, the foot
notes are meticulous...and excellent read. I highly recommend you to read it
Joe...

...special thanks to Rdean for keeping me alive in New Orleans....

john

On Nov 15, 6:31*pm, "John B" wrote:
I say it is a cost cutting move but really I just wanted to change things a
bit and I got rid of cable TV.

All my news now come from the net ad I have found the library to be great
source of old movies and I have started to read again.

Some interesting books have been:

"A Peoples History of American Empire" by Howard Zinn...when you read
something by Zinn you truly understand that history is written by the
victors. This book should be required reading in any High School History
call and besides, it is illustrated comic book style and it is a quick and
enlightening read....

Another book was:

"1491" by Charles Mann. do the double N's at the end of each name mean
anything? * It is a description of the north and south American continents
the day before the white man landed...the research is excellent, the foot
notes are meticulous...and excellent read. I highly recommend you to read it
Joe...

...special thanks to Rdean for keeping me alive in New Orleans....

john

Hello John
Have not read Zinn's book but know him from a weekly radio show he
hosts on NPR or some-such. He does offer a wider perspective that is
mostly hidden by American Tories and fascists, however he is more hard
leftist than progressive, and a bit encumbered by a NYC/LA orientation
to the world. Still, . . . worth listening to sometimes, even though
he is a bit too eager to see the US as responsible for most of the
world's troubles. OK that's an exaggeration but . . . .

As to the "1491," with all its journalistic conceits and welcome
simplifications, it is the best thing Ive seen for updating my
understanding of all the post 1960s discoveries in anthro and
archeology. Definitely a must read.

Dave

On Nov 16, 5:01*pm, DaveS wrote:
On Nov 15, 6:31*pm, "John B" wrote:



I say it is a cost cutting move but really I just wanted to change things a
bit and I got rid of cable TV.

All my news now come from the net ad I have found the library to be great
source of old movies and I have started to read again.

Some interesting books have been:

"A Peoples History of American Empire" by Howard Zinn...when you read
something by Zinn you truly understand that history is written by the
victors. This book should be required reading in any High School History
call and besides, it is illustrated comic book style and it is a quick and
enlightening read....

Another book was:

"1491" by Charles Mann. do the double N's at the end of each name mean
anything? * It is a description of the north and south American continents
the day before the white man landed...the research is excellent, the foot
notes are meticulous...and excellent read. I highly recommend you to read it
Joe...

...special thanks to Rdean for keeping me alive in New Orleans....

john

Hello John
Have not read Zinn's book but know him from a weekly radio show he
hosts on NPR or some-such. He does offer a wider perspective that is
mostly hidden by American Tories and fascists, however he is more hard
leftist than progressive, and a bit encumbered by a NYC/LA orientation
to the world. Still, . . . worth listening to sometimes, even though
he is a bit too eager to see the US as responsible for most of the
world's troubles. OK that's an exaggeration but . . . .

As to the "1491," with all its journalistic conceits and welcome
simplifications, it is the best thing Ive seen for updating my
understanding of all the post 1960s discoveries in anthro and
archeology. Definitely a must read.

Dave

As is Hitler and Marx -- for education, not for edification.

cheers

oz........"Christ, Marx, Wood, and Wei; thank you for this perfect day"

On Nov 16, 7:48*pm, MajorOz wrote:
SNIP
oz........"Christ, Marx, Wood, and Wei; thank you for this perfect day"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Interesting quote(?)
Assuming it refers to Jebus, Karl, Grant Wood and the comtempory
realist painter Wei. Is that the case?
Dave

On Nov 18, 11:09*am, DaveS wrote:
On Nov 16, 7:48*pm, MajorOz wrote:
SNIP

oz........"Christ, Marx, Wood, and Wei; thank you for this perfect day"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Interesting quote(?)
Assuming it refers to Jebus, Karl, Grant Wood and the comtempory
realist painter Wei. Is that the case?
Dave

It's from an Ira Levin (Rosemary's Baby) SF book: _This Perfect Day_

It is a mantra spoken by the drug zonkered residents of a futuristic
society.

cheers

oz, who distinguishes between "truth" and "fact"

On Nov 18, 3:53*pm, MajorOz wrote:
On Nov 18, 11:09*am, DaveS wrote:

On Nov 16, 7:48*pm, MajorOz wrote:
SNIP

oz........"Christ, Marx, Wood, and Wei; thank you for this perfect day"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Interesting quote(?)
Assuming it refers to Jebus, Karl, Grant Wood and the comtempory
realist painter Wei. Is that the case?
Dave

It's from an Ira Levin (Rosemary's Baby) SF book: _This Perfect Day_

It is a mantra spoken by the drug zonkered residents of a futuristic
society.

Interesting quotes.....hm.....interesting topic. My own favorite
(apropos of nothing in particular.....except the human condition, I
suppose) in a life more or less blessedly free of favorite this,
favorite that, blah blah, comes from the quintessential American
writer; "If you find a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will
not bite you. This is the principle difference between a dog and a
man.".....or something very much like that.

cheers

Prosit.

oz, who distinguishes between "truth" and "fact"

Not always distinguishable.

g.
and therein lies food for many a wonderful and potentially productive
discussion, in a world populated by adu.......um......well, never
mind.

On Nov 15, 8:31*pm, "John B" wrote:


"A Peoples History of American Empire" by Howard Zinn...when you read
something by Zinn you truly understand that history is written by the
victors.


I don't know if I'd quite go that far. History is always written from
a particular point of view, one that is shaped by the historian's life
and personal predilections. Someone like Zinn (or Thompson, or Rude,
or, ...or,...) who was shaped politically dring the cold war and the
nascent civil rights era, wrote against the dominant consensus
historiography of, for example, Hofstadter or Schlesinger. New Left
(or proto-NL, anyway) historians like Zinn simply challenged the then-
dominant interpretation of American whiggishness and exceptionalism.
This, IMO, does not mean that history is written by the victors;
rather, me thinks, the victors read history that makes them feel good
about their victory. That may be an angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin sort
of distinction, but I think it's relevant.

If'n you find Zinn-esque historiography to your liking, and you've got
some time on your hands, pick up M.J. Sklar, _The Corporate
Reconstruction of American Capitalism_. Or about 10,000,000 other
monographs and (often failed) attempts at synthesis. Also, to mention
a favorite of mine, you may find Herbert Gutman's _Work, Culture, and
Society in Industrializing America_ to be a fine work. Or not. But we
can discuss critiques of Gutman some other time....



Another book was:

"1491" by Charles Mann.

A fine book, so far as Mann is able to go, given his huge geographic
scope. An, IMO, better job of essentially the same sort of book is
Daniel Richter, _Facing East From Indian Country_. The opening
vignette (possibly available for perusal on Amazon or Google books) is
very evocative and sets the tone for the rest of the book. A truly
wonderful book that because of its smaller geographic focus does a
better job.


Anywho,

-Dan

On Nov 18, 7:29*pm, Giles wrote:

oz, who distinguishes between "truth" and "fact"

Not always distinguishable.



Positivists versus empiricists versus post-modernists versus post-
structuralists versus....

Mine head spinneth.

-Dan

On Nov 19, 9:27*am, Daniel-San wrote:
On Nov 18, 7:29*pm, Giles wrote:

oz, who distinguishes between "truth" and "fact"

Not always distinguishable.

Positivists versus empiricists versus post-modernists versus post-
structuralists versus....

Mine head spinneth.

-Dan

Second versus, same as the firstus.

Enery