And speaking of history....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...-33rd-annual-a

Were there really any "Mexicans" in DC way back then...?

Sheesh,
R

On Sep 21, 5:47*pm, wrote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...emarks-preside...

Were there really any "Mexicans" in DC way back then...?

Sheesh,
R

Imbecile.

g.

On Sep 21, 3:47*pm, wrote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...emarks-preside...

Were there really any "Mexicans" in DC way back then...?

Sheesh,

Maybe this can fill in the blanks. It is from "U.S. Latino Patriots:
From the "American Revolution to Afghanistan, An Overview." By Refugio
I. Rochin and Lionel Fernandez." Ever hear of Galveston? By the way,
there is a statue of General Galvez in D.C.. Isn't he in Mississippi's
version of the history of the Revolution? He fought in Mississippi
didn't he? How about Haym Solomon, the financier of the Revolution who
died broke, or the Sephardi Jewish patriots who ran the smuggling
networks that put arms and rations into the hands of Washington's
army? Washington knew these people and praised their contributions.
Funny more people don't know that.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/17.3.pdf

The American Revolution
The American Revolution, (1775-1782), a.k.a. the War of Independence,
was initially a civil war against the British Empire. Later, France
(1778), Spain (1779), and the Netherlands (1780), joined our cause
with a common enemy, creating an international war. Sea power was
important to both sides, providing flexibility in
the conduct of the war. Spain had earlier established an empire that
confirmed it was a world power to be reckoned with. Spain had colonies
in almost every section of North America, Central and South America,
and the Caribbean.
England had defeated Spain in the Seven Years War (1754-1763) and
subsequently Spain was forced to relinquish
its colony in Florida to England. However, Hispanics in the U.S. were
eager to assist the American colonists in
their struggle against England, even though Spain was not, as yet,
officially engaged in the conflict. Spain’s
military contribution to the early development of the U.S. began the
process of demonstrating Hispanic’s
loyalty, commitment and patriotism.
A very important Hispanic figure during the American colonists’ war
against Great Britain was Governor
and General Bernardo de Galvez. He was the Spanish governor of the
Louisiana territories during the time of
the American Revolution and was instrumental in assisting then General
George Washington to fight the British
soldiers who were advancing into the southwestern part of the U.S.
Governor de Galvez helped the
revolutionists by blockading vital British ships although Spain had
not declared war with Britain. In addition,
from 1775-1777, Governor de Galvez provided rations and weapons to the
Continental Army. In 1777, he
arranged safe passage for James Willing, an American agent of the
Continental Congress, who led a successful
campaign along the Mississippi river harassing British shipping,
plantation owners, and military outposts.
It was not until Spain had officially declared war with Great Britain
in 1779 that de Galvez organized a
militia of Native- Americans, freed African-Americans and his own
Spanish regular soldiers to attack British held
forts at Baton Rouge, Louisiana and Natchez, Mississippi. A year
later, he engaged the British at Mobile, Alabama
and a year after that at Pensacola, in western Florida. In each case,
de Galvez was able to force the British from
their entrenchments and freed these cities. His statue resides in
Washington, D.C.
General de Galvez also trained and mentored other Hispanics who would
one day contribute significantly
to the defense of the U.S. One of de Galvez’s officers was Francisco
de Miranda, who was born in Caracas,
Venezuela on March 28, 1750. Subsequently, de Miranda fought in the
siege and surrender of Pensacola, and
5
later in the Spanish capture of the Bahamas, which he negotiated as
the official representative of the governor
of Cuba. While in Cuba, de Miranda played a role in obtaining supplies
for the French Admiral de Grasse who
then sailed to the Chesapeake Bay to assist the Americans to capture
Yorktown, Virginia. As a result of these
contributions to the American Revolution, statues in Washington, DC
and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, a park in
Pensacola, Florida, and a commuter bus in Chicago, Illinois were
dedicated in honor of de Miranda who was also
instrumental in helping Venezuela gain its independence from Spain.
Another Hispanic patriot was Captain Jorge Farragut, who came to the
U.S. from the Spanish island of
Minorca to help the American colonists fight the British during the
American Revolutionary War. He is the father
of another famous Latino patriot, David Farragut.
The contributions of Hispanics such as Bernardo de Galvez, Jorge
Farragut, and Francisco de Miranda
were not uncommon. Hispanic persons participated in the Revolutionary
War. In addition to the significant
contributions of Bernardo de Galvez, there were Hispanic women who
participated in the American Revolution.
In 1781, the French and American forces were about to abandon their
siege of Yorktown, Virginia for lack of
funds. Cuban women collected money and jewelry so the French
Expedition could continue the siege. The
financial support from these Hispanic women redefined the term
patriots. While not soldiers in combat, their
contribution to the war effort was significant.

Dave

On Sep 21, 9:46*pm, DaveS wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:47*pm, wrote:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...emarks-preside...

Were there really any "Mexicans" in DC way back then...?

Sheesh,

Maybe this can fill in the blanks. It is from "U.S. Latino Patriots:
From the "American Revolution to Afghanistan, An Overview." By Refugio
I. Rochin and Lionel Fernandez." Ever hear of Galveston? By the way,
there is a statue of General Galvez in D.C.. Isn't he in Mississippi's
version of the history of the Revolution? He fought in Mississippi
didn't he? How about Haym Solomon, the financier of the Revolution who
died broke, or the Sephardi Jewish patriots who ran the smuggling
networks that put arms and rations into the hands of Washington's
army? *Washington knew these people and praised their contributions.
Funny more people don't know that.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/17.3.pdf

The American Revolution
The American Revolution, (1775-1782), a.k.a. the War of Independence,
was initially a civil war against the British Empire. Later, France
(1778), Spain (1779), and the Netherlands (1780), joined our cause
with a common enemy, creating an international war. Sea power was
important to both sides, providing flexibility in
the conduct of the war. Spain had earlier established an empire that
confirmed it was a world power to be reckoned with. Spain had colonies
in almost every section of North America, Central and South America,
and the Caribbean.
England had defeated Spain in the Seven Years War (1754-1763) and
subsequently Spain was forced to relinquish
its colony in Florida to England. However, Hispanics in the U.S. were
eager to assist the American colonists in
their struggle against England, even though Spain was not, as yet,
officially engaged in the conflict. Spain’s
military contribution to the early development of the U.S. began the
process of demonstrating Hispanic’s
loyalty, commitment and patriotism.
A very important Hispanic figure during the American colonists’ war
against Great Britain was Governor
and General Bernardo de Galvez. He was the Spanish governor of the
Louisiana territories during the time of
the American Revolution and was instrumental in assisting then General
George Washington to fight the British
soldiers who were advancing into the southwestern part of the U.S.
Governor de Galvez helped the
revolutionists by blockading vital British ships although Spain had
not declared war with Britain. In addition,
from 1775-1777, Governor de Galvez provided rations and weapons to the
Continental Army. In 1777, he
arranged safe passage for James Willing, an American agent of the
Continental Congress, who led a successful
campaign along the Mississippi river harassing British shipping,
plantation owners, and military outposts.
It was not until Spain had officially declared war with Great Britain
in 1779 that de Galvez organized a
militia of Native- Americans, freed African-Americans and his own
Spanish regular soldiers to attack British held
forts at Baton Rouge, Louisiana and Natchez, Mississippi. A year
later, he engaged the British at Mobile, Alabama
and a year after that at Pensacola, in western Florida. In each case,
de Galvez was able to force the British from
their entrenchments and freed these cities. His statue resides in
Washington, D.C.
General de Galvez also trained and mentored other Hispanics who would
one day contribute significantly
to the defense of the U.S. One of de Galvez’s officers was Francisco
de Miranda, who was born in Caracas,
Venezuela on March 28, 1750. Subsequently, de Miranda fought in the
siege and surrender of Pensacola, and
5
later in the Spanish capture of the Bahamas, which he negotiated as
the official representative of the governor
of Cuba. While in Cuba, de Miranda played a role in obtaining supplies
for the French Admiral de Grasse who
then sailed to the Chesapeake Bay to assist the Americans to capture
Yorktown, Virginia. As a result of these
contributions to the American Revolution, statues in Washington, DC
and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, a park in
Pensacola, Florida, and a commuter bus in Chicago, Illinois were
dedicated in honor of de Miranda who was also
instrumental in helping Venezuela gain its independence from Spain.
Another Hispanic patriot was Captain Jorge Farragut, who came to the
U.S. from the Spanish island of
Minorca to help the American colonists fight the British during the
American Revolutionary War. He is the father
of another famous Latino patriot, David Farragut.
The contributions of Hispanics such as Bernardo de Galvez, Jorge
Farragut, and Francisco de Miranda
were not uncommon. Hispanic persons participated in the Revolutionary
War. In addition to the significant
contributions of Bernardo de Galvez, there were Hispanic women who
participated in the American Revolution.
In 1781, the French and American forces were about to abandon their
siege of Yorktown, Virginia for lack of
funds. Cuban women collected money and jewelry so the French
Expedition could continue the siege. The
financial support from these Hispanic women redefined the term
patriots. While not soldiers in combat, their
contribution to the war effort was significant.

Dave

Hm.....

Well, yeah, but ya gotta admit, my version was considerably more
succinct.

g.
and brevity, they say......well, you know.

On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 19:46:10 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:

On Sep 21, 3:47*pm, wrote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...emarks-preside...

Were there really any "Mexicans" in DC way back then...?

Sheesh,

Maybe this can fill in the blanks. It is from "U.S. Latino Patriots:
From the "American Revolution to Afghanistan, An Overview." By Refugio
I. Rochin and Lionel Fernandez." Ever hear of Galveston? By the way,
there is a statue of General Galvez in D.C.. Isn't he in Mississippi's
version of the history of the Revolution? He fought in Mississippi
didn't he?

(Non sequitur "Hooray for Hispanics in (American) History" snipped)

First, Ha-ha-hee-hee-SNICKER-CHORTLE-SPLORKVANGMU!!

Second, the three contemporaneous Galvez were born in Spain and as Spaniards and
Peninsulares, they would have been offended even at the suggestion that they
were born in "New Spain" - "Mexico" didn't even exist as country when even
Bernardo was born. "Mexico" would have been, to him, a mere
city/region/province, not an independent country. The only people who may have
called themselves (a variant of) "Mexican" would not have been anywhere near DC
or even in what is now the US. Moreover, he looked upon them as savages and
subjects, not equals, roughly equivalent to blacks, "Indians," etc.

And finally, the "idea" of "America" (as in New Spain) came from the Spanish
before there were any "Mexicans" (as in a casual term for citizens of the modern
country), and the same people who came up with the idea of "America" were, as
were the Galvez, very particular about NOT being born in "America" ("Mexico" or
anywhere else), but rather, in Spain. Even those of the same general social
level who were born later, by necessity, in "New Spain" would not have
identified as "Mexicans" or even "New Spanish," but rather, as Spaniards who
happened to be born in New Spain. And IAC, about the only people in all of
North or South America who were here "long before America was even an idea" were
the variety of locals dispersed throughout - there were little or no British,
French, Dutch, "Mexicans" and even few Spaniards themselves - and again, any of
those who _might_ have called themselves a variant of "Mexican" would not have
been in what is now the US.

What it _appears_ he means is the US-centric version: The United States of
America _is_ "America," ala the "American Ideal/Dream/etc.," but there he
especially fails because such an "idea" began not only long before there were
any "Mexicans," but long before there was any "New Spain," "Mexico," or idea of
"America" (i.e., an "America" in the New Spain sense that could have possibly
included "Mexicans," had "Mexico" as country in New Spain existed).

Perhaps only someone familiar with history and the Declaration of Independence
would be as amused as I am by a sitting POTUS who is an alleged constitutional
scholar and law professor not only saying this:

"So let me close by saying this. Long before America was even an idea, this
land of plenty was home to many peoples. To British and French, to Dutch and
Spanish, to Mexican -- (applause) -- to countless Indian tribes. We all shared
the same land. We didn’t always get along. But over the centuries, what
eventually bound us together -- what made us all Americans -- was not a matter
of blood, it wasn’t a matter of birth. It was faith and fidelity to the shared
values that we all hold so dear. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that
all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights: life and
liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

but the fact that his administration would put the above as the official WH
transcript and include the silly-assed rock concert applause when the
entertainer says the city ("Are you ready to ROCK, insert city name
here?!?!"). It speaks volumes about this administration.

Sheesh,
R
....to paraphrase, his ability to lead would not be in so much doubt had he not
been elected President, and, the more corrupt the Fed, the more laws it
wants...etc., etc., etc.....

On Sep 22, 11:47*am, wrote:

The only people who may have
called themselves (a variant of) "Mexican" would not have been anywhere near DC
or even in what is now the US.

I don't know about all the rest and I didn't read the speech you
pointed at, but long before Jefferson picked up his pen the Camino
Real ran through "what is now the US", a couple of miles away from my
house...and the generations of folks born here by then were I'm sure
already thinking of themselves as "not Europeans" (i.e, some "variant"
of Mexican).

http://www.santafe400th.com/

HTH,

Jon.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 11:33:10 -0700 (PDT), Jonathan Cook
wrote:

On Sep 22, 11:47*am, wrote:

The only people who may have
called themselves (a variant of) "Mexican" would not have been anywhere near DC
or even in what is now the US.

I don't know about all the rest and I didn't read the speech you
pointed at, but long before Jefferson picked up his pen the Camino
Real ran through "what is now the US", a couple of miles away from my
house...and the generations of folks born here by then were I'm sure
already thinking of themselves as "not Europeans" (i.e, some "variant"
of Mexican).

Um, "not Europeans" does not translate into "some 'variant' of Mexican." AFAIK,
there were not substantive numbers of those people who would have called
themselves the Nahuatl variant of "Mexican" near Santa Fe. I'm not a scholar of
the Nahua or the Nahuatl languages, but from what I understand, even those that
are such cannot agree on the exact origins of where the transliterated word
"Mexico" came, beyond that it comes from some Nahuatl word, poss. "Mexica" or
similar, in use around what is now the State of Mexico - the _State_, not the
country - in what is now the central area of the country of "Mexico." It is
clear, however, that calling all citizens from the post-independence country of
"Mexico" (United Mexican States) "Mexicans" is a 19th century and later thing.
Simply put, people with no Spanish contact could not have called _any_ place
"Mexico" (or themselves "Mexicans") because it is a Spanish word created by
transliteration.

IAC, Jefferson's pen being picked up was as a _result_ of the idea of a/the
"United States of America" (the US-centric idea of "America") rather than him
doing so was the germination of the idea. And the idea of "America" - the "New
World" idea of all of N. and S. America - was Spanish, and Jefferson's writings
are more in contrast to the Spanish "New Spain"/"America" idea and certainly
could not have influenced it.

HTH,
R

http://www.santafe400th.com/

HTH,

Jon.

On Sep 22, 10:47*am, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 19:46:10 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:47*pm, wrote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...emarks-preside....

Were there really any "Mexicans" in DC way back then...?

Sheesh,

Maybe this can fill in the blanks. It is from "U.S. Latino Patriots:
From the "American Revolution to Afghanistan, An Overview." By Refugio
I. Rochin and Lionel Fernandez." Ever hear of Galveston? By the way,
there is a statue of General Galvez in D.C.. Isn't he in Mississippi's
version of the history of the Revolution? He fought in Mississippi
didn't he?

(Non sequitur "Hooray for Hispanics in (American) History" snipped)

First, Ha-ha-hee-hee-SNICKER-CHORTLE-SPLORKVANGMU!!

Second, the three contemporaneous Galvez were born in Spain and as Spaniards and
Peninsulares, they would have been offended even at the suggestion that they
were born in "New Spain" - "Mexico" didn't even exist as country when even
Bernardo was born. *"Mexico" would have been, to him, a mere
city/region/province, not an independent country. *The only people who may have
called themselves (a variant of) "Mexican" would not have been anywhere near DC
or even in what is now the US. *Moreover, he looked upon them as savages and
subjects, not equals, roughly equivalent to blacks, "Indians," etc.

And finally, the "idea" of "America" (as in New Spain) came from the Spanish
before there were any "Mexicans" (as in a casual term for citizens of the modern
country), and the same people who came up with the idea of "America" were, as
were the Galvez, very particular about NOT being born in "America" ("Mexico" or
anywhere else), but rather, in Spain. *Even those of the same general social
level who were born later, by necessity, in "New Spain" would not have
identified as "Mexicans" or even "New Spanish," but rather, as Spaniards who
happened to be born in New Spain. *And IAC, about the only people in all of
North or South America who were here "long before America was even an idea" were
the variety of locals dispersed throughout - there were little or no British,
French, Dutch, "Mexicans" and even few Spaniards themselves - and again, any of
those who _might_ have called themselves a variant of "Mexican" would not have
been in what is now the US.

What it _appears_ he means is the US-centric version: The United States of
America _is_ "America," ala the "American Ideal/Dream/etc.," but there he
especially fails because such an "idea" began not only long before there were
any "Mexicans," but long before there was any "New Spain," "Mexico," or idea of
"America" (i.e., an "America" in the New Spain sense that could have possibly
included "Mexicans," had "Mexico" as country in New Spain existed).

Perhaps only someone familiar with history and the Declaration of Independence
would be as amused as I am by a sitting POTUS who is an alleged constitutional
scholar and law professor not only saying this:

"So let me close by saying this. *Long before America was even an idea, this
land of plenty was home to many peoples. *To British and French, to Dutch and
Spanish, to Mexican -- (applause) -- to countless Indian tribes. *We all shared
the same land. *We didn’t always get along. *But over the centuries, what
eventually bound us together -- what made us all Americans -- was not a matter
of blood, it wasn’t a matter of birth. *It was faith and fidelity to the shared
values that we all hold so dear. *We hold these truths to be self-evident, that
all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights: *life and
liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

but the fact that his administration would put the above as the official WH
transcript and include the silly-assed rock concert applause when the
entertainer says the city ("Are you ready to ROCK, insert city name
here?!?!"). *It speaks volumes about this administration. *

Sheesh,
R
...to paraphrase, his ability to lead would not be in so much doubt had he not
been elected President, and, the more corrupt the Fed, the more laws it
wants...etc., etc., etc.....

I suggest you might find interesting the meetings and comments of
Francisco de Miranda on his meetings with Washington, Adams, Hamilton
etc etc, and the AMERICAN Hispanic Sephardic Jewish leaders in Philly
and New York in the mid 1780s. On his visit to your alma mater, Yale,
Miranda attended a class in Hebrew. Could have sat in the same
classroom as you.

You know, "Miranda?" who captured Pensacola from the British and
helped drive the Brits from Natchez, MISSISSIPPI, with a mix of
Spanish, Mexican, Black and Native American troops?

He was a devotee of the "American idea." Or is he verboten because he
was born in Caracas, Venezuela? And were Bernardo O'Higgins (born in
Chillan, Chile) and Jordi Farragut not both "Americans" in the
continental sense?

"Jordi Farragut joined his new country at the beginning of the
American Revolution, initially as a lieutenant in the South Carolina
Navy. He fought the British at Savannah and was captured in Charleston
- Siege of Charleston- in 1780. After being released in a prisoner
exchange, he fought as a volunteer at the Battle of Cowpens and
Wilmington." (Wiki)

I mean the man died in Pascagoula, Mississippi, surely that might
suggest he was an "American."

How about Ben Franklin, he was born in British Occupied Boston? He did
spend much of his adult life in Britain but heck, I still consider him
an "American."

RD by your parsing, none of the founding fathers were Americans.

Dave

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:41:15 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:

On Sep 22, 10:47*am, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 19:46:10 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:47*pm, wrote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...emarks-preside...

Were there really any "Mexicans" in DC way back then...?

Sheesh,

Maybe this can fill in the blanks. It is from "U.S. Latino Patriots:
From the "American Revolution to Afghanistan, An Overview." By Refugio
I. Rochin and Lionel Fernandez." Ever hear of Galveston? By the way,
there is a statue of General Galvez in D.C.. Isn't he in Mississippi's
version of the history of the Revolution? He fought in Mississippi
didn't he?

(Non sequitur "Hooray for Hispanics in (American) History" snipped)

First, Ha-ha-hee-hee-SNICKER-CHORTLE-SPLORKVANGMU!!

Second, the three contemporaneous Galvez were born in Spain and as Spaniards and
Peninsulares, they would have been offended even at the suggestion that they
were born in "New Spain" - "Mexico" didn't even exist as country when even
Bernardo was born. *"Mexico" would have been, to him, a mere
city/region/province, not an independent country. *The only people who may have
called themselves (a variant of) "Mexican" would not have been anywhere near DC
or even in what is now the US. *Moreover, he looked upon them as savages and
subjects, not equals, roughly equivalent to blacks, "Indians," etc.

And finally, the "idea" of "America" (as in New Spain) came from the Spanish
before there were any "Mexicans" (as in a casual term for citizens of the modern
country), and the same people who came up with the idea of "America" were, as
were the Galvez, very particular about NOT being born in "America" ("Mexico" or
anywhere else), but rather, in Spain. *Even those of the same general social
level who were born later, by necessity, in "New Spain" would not have
identified as "Mexicans" or even "New Spanish," but rather, as Spaniards who
happened to be born in New Spain. *And IAC, about the only people in all of
North or South America who were here "long before America was even an idea" were
the variety of locals dispersed throughout - there were little or no British,
French, Dutch, "Mexicans" and even few Spaniards themselves - and again, any of
those who _might_ have called themselves a variant of "Mexican" would not have
been in what is now the US.

What it _appears_ he means is the US-centric version: The United States of
America _is_ "America," ala the "American Ideal/Dream/etc.," but there he
especially fails because such an "idea" began not only long before there were
any "Mexicans," but long before there was any "New Spain," "Mexico," or idea of
"America" (i.e., an "America" in the New Spain sense that could have possibly
included "Mexicans," had "Mexico" as country in New Spain existed).

Perhaps only someone familiar with history and the Declaration of Independence
would be as amused as I am by a sitting POTUS who is an alleged constitutional
scholar and law professor not only saying this:

"So let me close by saying this. *Long before America was even an idea, this
land of plenty was home to many peoples. *To British and French, to Dutch and
Spanish, to Mexican -- (applause) -- to countless Indian tribes. *We all shared
the same land. *We didn’t always get along. *But over the centuries, what
eventually bound us together -- what made us all Americans -- was not a matter
of blood, it wasn’t a matter of birth. *It was faith and fidelity to the shared
values that we all hold so dear. *We hold these truths to be self-evident, that
all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights: *life and
liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

but the fact that his administration would put the above as the official WH
transcript and include the silly-assed rock concert applause when the
entertainer says the city ("Are you ready to ROCK, insert city name
here?!?!"). *It speaks volumes about this administration. *

Sheesh,
R
...to paraphrase, his ability to lead would not be in so much doubt had he not
been elected President, and, the more corrupt the Fed, the more laws it
wants...etc., etc., etc.....

I suggest you might find interesting the meetings and comments of
Francisco de Miranda on his meetings with Washington, Adams, Hamilton
etc etc, and the AMERICAN Hispanic Sephardic Jewish leaders in Philly
and New York in the mid 1780s. On his visit to your alma mater, Yale,
Miranda attended a class in Hebrew. Could have sat in the same
classroom as you.

You know, "Miranda?" who captured Pensacola from the British and
helped drive the Brits from Natchez, MISSISSIPPI, with a mix of
Spanish, Mexican, Black and Native American troops?

He was a devotee of the "American idea." Or is he verboten because he
was born in Caracas, Venezuela? And were Bernardo O'Higgins (born in
Chillan, Chile) and Jordi Farragut not both "Americans" in the
continental sense?

"Jordi Farragut joined his new country at the beginning of the
American Revolution, initially as a lieutenant in the South Carolina
Navy. He fought the British at Savannah and was captured in Charleston
- Siege of Charleston- in 1780. After being released in a prisoner
exchange, he fought as a volunteer at the Battle of Cowpens and
Wilmington." (Wiki)

I mean the man died in Pascagoula, Mississippi, surely that might
suggest he was an "American."

How about Ben Franklin, he was born in British Occupied Boston? He did
spend much of his adult life in Britain but heck, I still consider him
an "American."

RD by your parsing, none of the founding fathers were Americans.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!,
R
....and SNICKER, too...

Dave

On Sep 22, 1:01*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:41:15 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:
On Sep 22, 10:47*am, wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 19:46:10 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:
On Sep 21, 3:47*pm, wrote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...emarks-preside...

Were there really any "Mexicans" in DC way back then...?

Sheesh,

Maybe this can fill in the blanks. It is from "U.S. Latino Patriots:
From the "American Revolution to Afghanistan, An Overview." By Refugio
I. Rochin and Lionel Fernandez." Ever hear of Galveston? By the way,
there is a statue of General Galvez in D.C.. Isn't he in Mississippi's
version of the history of the Revolution? He fought in Mississippi
didn't he?

(Non sequitur "Hooray for Hispanics in (American) History" snipped)

First, Ha-ha-hee-hee-SNICKER-CHORTLE-SPLORKVANGMU!!

Second, the three contemporaneous Galvez were born in Spain and as Spaniards and
Peninsulares, they would have been offended even at the suggestion that they
were born in "New Spain" - "Mexico" didn't even exist as country when even
Bernardo was born. *"Mexico" would have been, to him, a mere
city/region/province, not an independent country. *The only people who may have
called themselves (a variant of) "Mexican" would not have been anywhere near DC
or even in what is now the US. *Moreover, he looked upon them as savages and
subjects, not equals, roughly equivalent to blacks, "Indians," etc.

And finally, the "idea" of "America" (as in New Spain) came from the Spanish
before there were any "Mexicans" (as in a casual term for citizens of the modern
country), and the same people who came up with the idea of "America" were, as
were the Galvez, very particular about NOT being born in "America" ("Mexico" or
anywhere else), but rather, in Spain. *Even those of the same general social
level who were born later, by necessity, in "New Spain" would not have
identified as "Mexicans" or even "New Spanish," but rather, as Spaniards who
happened to be born in New Spain. *And IAC, about the only people in all of
North or South America who were here "long before America was even an idea" were
the variety of locals dispersed throughout - there were little or no British,
French, Dutch, "Mexicans" and even few Spaniards themselves - and again, any of
those who _might_ have called themselves a variant of "Mexican" would not have
been in what is now the US.

What it _appears_ he means is the US-centric version: The United States of
America _is_ "America," ala the "American Ideal/Dream/etc.," but there he
especially fails because such an "idea" began not only long before there were
any "Mexicans," but long before there was any "New Spain," "Mexico," or idea of
"America" (i.e., an "America" in the New Spain sense that could have possibly
included "Mexicans," had "Mexico" as country in New Spain existed).

Perhaps only someone familiar with history and the Declaration of Independence
would be as amused as I am by a sitting POTUS who is an alleged constitutional
scholar and law professor not only saying this:

"So let me close by saying this. *Long before America was even an idea, this
land of plenty was home to many peoples. *To British and French, to Dutch and
Spanish, to Mexican -- (applause) -- to countless Indian tribes. *We all shared
the same land. *We didn’t always get along. *But over the centuries, what
eventually bound us together -- what made us all Americans -- was not a matter
of blood, it wasn’t a matter of birth. *It was faith and fidelity to the shared
values that we all hold so dear. *We hold these truths to be self-evident, that
all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights: *life and
liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

but the fact that his administration would put the above as the official WH
transcript and include the silly-assed rock concert applause when the
entertainer says the city ("Are you ready to ROCK, insert city name
here?!?!"). *It speaks volumes about this administration. *

Sheesh,
R
...to paraphrase, his ability to lead would not be in so much doubt had he not
been elected President, and, the more corrupt the Fed, the more laws it
wants...etc., etc., etc.....

I suggest you might find interesting the meetings and comments of
Francisco de Miranda on his meetings with Washington, Adams, Hamilton
etc etc, and the AMERICAN Hispanic Sephardic Jewish leaders in Philly
and New York in the mid 1780s. *On his visit to your alma mater, Yale,
Miranda attended a class in Hebrew. Could have sat in the same
classroom as you.

You know, "Miranda?" who captured Pensacola from the British and
helped drive the Brits from Natchez, MISSISSIPPI, with a mix of
Spanish, Mexican, Black and Native American troops?

He was a devotee of the "American idea." *Or is he verboten because he
was born in Caracas, Venezuela? And were Bernardo O'Higgins (born in
Chillan, Chile) and Jordi Farragut not both "Americans" in the
continental sense?

"Jordi Farragut joined his new country at the beginning of the
American Revolution, initially as a lieutenant in the South Carolina
Navy. He fought the British at Savannah and was captured in Charleston
- Siege of Charleston- in 1780. After being released in a prisoner
exchange, he fought as a volunteer at the Battle of Cowpens and
Wilmington." (Wiki)

I mean the man died in Pascagoula, Mississippi, surely that might
suggest he was an "American."

How about Ben Franklin, he was born in British Occupied Boston? He did
spend much of his adult life in Britain but heck, I still consider him
an "American."

RD by your parsing, none of the founding fathers were Americans.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!,
R
...and SNICKER, too...





Dave- Hide quoted text -

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Then of course there is Juan de Miralles, the Cuban merchant/smuggler/
budding Democrat.

"From Cuba, his ships transported uniforms, gun powder, riffles and
other military supplies, as well as rum, wine, candies, flour and
other food stuff needed by the revolutionaries. It is widely believed
that de Miranda saved the Continental Army from being decimated by
scurvy by providing Washington with quinine, of which Spain had the
monopoly, and with Cuban grown limes, a great source of vitamin C."

"De Miralles died at his good friend’s George Washington’s camp in
Morristown, New Jersey, and the future first American president led
the mourners at his funeral."

That would be Morristown New Jersey, where the Revolutionary Army
suffered a worse winter than at Valley Forge, and from which the NJ
militia eviscerated the British Army in the 13 Battles of the Forage
War.

And then there is the $6 million raised by Hispanics/Creoles/Jews and
MEXICANS (app $200 million in today's dollars) used to pay the
Revolutionary Army at Yorktown, not to mention the Hispanic troops who
fought in the siege to defeat Cornwallis. General Washington
apparently appreciated the help.

I see the real history of our country as a unifying force for our
great country and its diverse people. The assault on our real US
history is led by people like David Barton, a strutting, Christian/
Fascist, with an armband and a copykat dark near uniform.

Dave