Spey rod, center pin reel, etc.

Was fishing the Farmington River in CT this afternoon, and a guy showed up with
a rig just like Mike Connor described a while ago. He had a 12' two handed spey
rod with a center pin, (free spool), reel spooled with mono, and a float
similar to the ones Mike showed. He was using bait, and slinging sixty foot
casts with little effort. It was obvious he could have cast much further if he
wanted to, but the Farmington is not that big a stream. He was able to control
the drift while keeping contact with the float, and he caught several fish. All
in all, pretty interesting to watch. Not real sporting, considering the fish he
was catching were all under a foot long, but I can see where this would be an
effective and sporting method of fishing big water for large fish. No reason a
fly could not have been subsituted for the bait and been successful.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

On 02 May 2004 02:52:51 GMT, ojunk (George Adams)
wrote:

Was fishing the Farmington River in CT this afternoon, and a guy showed up with
a rig just like Mike Connor described a while ago. He had a 12' two handed spey
rod with a center pin, (free spool), reel spooled with mono, and a float
similar to the ones Mike showed. He was using bait, and slinging sixty foot
casts with little effort. It was obvious he could have cast much further if he
wanted to, but the Farmington is not that big a stream. He was able to control
the drift while keeping contact with the float, and he caught several fish. All
in all, pretty interesting to watch. Not real sporting, considering the fish he
was catching were all under a foot long, but I can see where this would be an
effective and sporting method of fishing big water for large fish. No reason a
fly could not have been subsituted for the bait and been successful.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller


May not have ben a spey rod, but a float rod -- they're both about the
same length. They're quite common in the GWN. Some even use flies on
them. This rig is the most common way to fish for steelhead here,
using small bags of roe. It's a very effective method.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

"Greg Pavlov" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
On 02 May 2004 02:52:51 GMT, ojunk (George Adams)
wrote:

Was fishing the Farmington River in CT this afternoon, and a guy showed
up with
a rig just like Mike Connor described a while ago.

I'm pretty sure that that was a float rod and reel.
If you watch closely you'll see that the reel spools
so freely that the drifting float will take line out
from it. The float rig were developed by Canadian
steelheaders. It may be the most effective way to
catch steelhead in moving water.

It may well have been a float rod, ( actually, a rod is just a rod, what you
use it for determines the designation at the time. So called "Match" rods
are used for lots of things, and most UK anglers will know what is meant by
the term. Few Americans do. Whatever the rod used, it is unlikely that he
was casting sixty feet with a standard centrepin reel. Although this is
possible, in over forty years of general fishing, I have only ever met three
other people who could do it. A very special technique is required for long
casting with a centrepin reel, and as they are no longer very popular for
general fishing, hardly anybody can do it.

One may well fish at such distances though, and even much greater range.
This technique is referred to here as "long trotting". This is still
popular for coarse fishing on some rivers, and especially for grayling in
winter. The reel spool is very finely balanced, and extremely free running,
( top class reels, are even "run in" on the bench, and special lubricants
are used), has a large line capacity, ( although normally relatively fine
line is used), and it is possible to fish large stretches of river. Some of
the top class reels will also cost you a lot of money. The reel is "batted"
( hit with the ball of the hand to start it turning), and once a little line
is out, the slight line drag ( in running water of course), is enough to
keep the spool turning easily.

A good long trotting reel will spin in the hand for over ten minutes when
lightly batted.

This is also the basis of the special technique required for distance
casting with such a reel. A split second before the casting weight ( float,
lead, spinner, etc) is released, the reel spool is either batted with the
free hand, or accelerated with the thumb of the casting hand. The weight
merely carries the line out, and does not cause the reel drum to revolve.
Very considerable practice is required for this technique. Mistimimg, or
applying too much power will result in a "birds nest" of gigantic
proportions!

What I recently described was an " Alvey" side-cast reel. The reel may be
twisted 90° on its foot axis, and used like a fixed spool reel for casting.
It is returned to the normal position for retrieveing etc. Unfortunately,
there is often confusion about various reels, as there is no universal
nomenclature.

TL
MC

On Sun, 2 May 2004 18:45:30 +0200, "Mike Connor"
wrote:

Whatever the rod used, it is unlikely that he
was casting sixty feet with a standard centrepin reel. Although this is
possible, in over forty years of general fishing, I have only ever met three
other people who could do it. A very special technique is required for long
casting with a centrepin reel, and as they are no longer very popular for
general fishing, hardly anybody can do it.


Standard steelhead float fishing practice is to make an upstream cast
of around 30' or 40' then follow a long drift that can run upwards of
a 100' in the right circumstance. They can cover a hell of a lot of
water. Some guys can cast these rigs quite far.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

The rod had a very soft action. Don't know if was a true spey rod or a float
rod. The reel looked like a conventional fly reel from the side, but was very
narrow when seen face on. I saw some of these years ago, and at that time they
were referred to as "free spool" reels.

The guy using this rig was simply making an easy overhand lob, and he had to
snub the reel spool to stop the cast at the 50'/60' distance he was casting.
The current would indeed take line from the spool, and this seemed
advantageous, as he could maintain a long drift while keeping in contact with
the float. (i.e. no slack)

He did screw up once, and got a really nast backlash.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

I have no trouble casting one hundred feet plus with a centre pin reel and
weight. I know some anglers who claim they can cast farther with a centre
pin than with a level wind style bait caster.

--

there are no numbers in my email addy. Please remove to reply
"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Greg Pavlov" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
On 02 May 2004 02:52:51 GMT, ojunk (George Adams)
wrote:

Was fishing the Farmington River in CT this afternoon, and a guy showed
up with
a rig just like Mike Connor described a while ago.

I'm pretty sure that that was a float rod and reel.
If you watch closely you'll see that the reel spools
so freely that the drifting float will take line out
from it. The float rig were developed by Canadian
steelheaders. It may be the most effective way to
catch steelhead in moving water.

It may well have been a float rod, ( actually, a rod is just a rod, what
you
use it for determines the designation at the time. So called "Match" rods
are used for lots of things, and most UK anglers will know what is meant
by
the term. Few Americans do. Whatever the rod used, it is unlikely that he
was casting sixty feet with a standard centrepin reel. Although this is
possible, in over forty years of general fishing, I have only ever met
three
other people who could do it. A very special technique is required for
long
casting with a centrepin reel, and as they are no longer very popular for
general fishing, hardly anybody can do it.

One may well fish at such distances though, and even much greater range.
This technique is referred to here as "long trotting". This is still
popular for coarse fishing on some rivers, and especially for grayling in
winter. The reel spool is very finely balanced, and extremely free
running,
( top class reels, are even "run in" on the bench, and special lubricants
are used), has a large line capacity, ( although normally relatively fine
line is used), and it is possible to fish large stretches of river. Some
of
the top class reels will also cost you a lot of money. The reel is
"batted"
( hit with the ball of the hand to start it turning), and once a little
line
is out, the slight line drag ( in running water of course), is enough to
keep the spool turning easily.

A good long trotting reel will spin in the hand for over ten minutes when
lightly batted.

This is also the basis of the special technique required for distance
casting with such a reel. A split second before the casting weight (
float,
lead, spinner, etc) is released, the reel spool is either batted with the
free hand, or accelerated with the thumb of the casting hand. The weight
merely carries the line out, and does not cause the reel drum to revolve.
Very considerable practice is required for this technique. Mistimimg, or
applying too much power will result in a "birds nest" of gigantic
proportions!

What I recently described was an " Alvey" side-cast reel. The reel may be
twisted 90° on its foot axis, and used like a fixed spool reel for
casting.
It is returned to the normal position for retrieveing etc. Unfortunately,
there is often confusion about various reels, as there is no universal
nomenclature.

TL
MC

On 02 May 2004 19:19:25 GMT, ojunk (George Adams)
wrote:

The rod had a very soft action. Don't know if was a true spey rod or a float
rod. The reel looked like a conventional fly reel from the side, but was very
narrow when seen face on. I saw some of these years ago, and at that time they
were referred to as "free spool" reels.

The guy using this rig was simply making an easy overhand lob, and he had to
snub the reel spool to stop the cast at the 50'/60' distance he was casting.
The current would indeed take line from the spool, and this seemed
advantageous, as he could maintain a long drift while keeping in contact with
the float. (i.e. no slack)

He did screw up once, and got a really nast backlash.


If it was very soft then that's a float rod for sure.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

Peter Charles wrote in
:

On Sun, 2 May 2004 18:45:30 +0200, "Mike Connor"
wrote:

Whatever the rod used, it is unlikely that he
was casting sixty feet with a standard centrepin reel. Although this
is possible, in over forty years of general fishing, I have only ever
met three other people who could do it. A very special technique is
required for long casting with a centrepin reel, and as they are no
longer very popular for general fishing, hardly anybody can do it.


Standard steelhead float fishing practice is to make an upstream cast
of around 30' or 40' then follow a long drift that can run upwards of
a 100' in the right circumstance. They can cover a hell of a lot of
water. Some guys can cast these rigs quite far.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at
http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html


In a boat with one of these rigs, you can get a drift the size of a
football field

Scott

"RalphH" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:IRblc.328840$Pk3.325545@pd7tw1no...
I have no trouble casting one hundred feet plus with a centre pin reel and
weight. I know some anglers who claim they can cast farther with a centre
pin than with a level wind style bait caster.

If you use sufficient weight, then it is not that difficult to cast quite a
long way using a centrepin. Normal trotting gear ( or "rolling legers",
which are/were also used)is however more or less "weightless", and a
completely different casting technique is required. Experts can cast a rig
like this using only two medium sized split shot as casting weight. Or even
a single lobworm ( night crawler). The reel must be set revolving at the
right speed, a split second before the cast is let go, as otherwise light
float gear will not even overcome the inertia of the reel. Apart from which,
the bait will fly off anyway, as too much force is required to turn the reel
spool at all when casting a very light weight.

Centrepin reels can be used to cast light weights a very long way, but this
is rarely done nowadays, as only very few people can do it.

I have heard of "mooching", "noodling", and several other techniques used
for steelhead. The descriptions of the techniques leads me to believe that
quite a bit of weight is used when casting. This is not at all the same
thing as using light float gear with the same reel.

George´s description of the "overhand lob" also suggests that a fair weight
was being used to cast. This must be so, as it is simply not possible to set
a centrepin reel revolving by casting when using a very light weight. This
is what makes it so difficult to do. The timing, and the force applied are
absolutely critical. This requires very many hours of practice.

The equipment I use for casting flies in the ocean is not similar to either
method. The side cast reel does not revolve when the tackle is cast. Line
comes of the reel over the lip of the spool, which is at ninety degrees to
the rod, in the same way as it would come off a stationary spool reel with a
bail arm. The reel I use has no bail arm. It is twisted back ninety degrees
after the cast, and then functions as a normal single action centrepin. (
Centrepin reels with mutiplying gears are however also used). Line is
spread with the index finger.

The first four reels shown here ( "Odessa", "Underspin","Spincast" and
"Condender plus) are Open face, closed face, open face, and open face fixed
spool reels.
The fifth reel ( "Golden Eagle")is a "normal" centrepin, and the sixth is a
"Lincoln" side cast reel.

These are all fairly cheap examples.

http://www.trinderstackle.com/en-gb/dept_106.html

Using weight, I can cast almost as far with a good centrepin, ( revolving
spool), as I can with a multiplier ( "Baitcaster", also revolving spool). I
would not however use such a reel with a level wind mechanism.

The reel here ( unfortunately no picture) is similar to mine
http://www.fishingbig.com/fishing_ta...epin/2127.html

This is also similar, http://www.fishing.co.uk/article.php3?id=1965
athough I have a custom centrepin, and a couple of "Match Aerials". I use
these for long trotting, stret pegging, and laying on. I also used them for
some distance work, but very rarely nowadays, and not for some time.

There is a lot more info on centrepin fishing here;
http://www.fishing.co.uk/article.php3?id=1749

The technique used for distance casting with these reels is known as "The
Wallis Cast" after the gentleman who perfected it. There is a good
description here;
http://www.fishingmagic.com/news/art...N=1774&SP=&V=1

This technique, or similar with minor variations, is the only way to achieve
any distance using a centrepin and light tackle, and in recent years has
started to become more popular again. There are still not many people who
can do it well.

This is one of my beachcasting reels
http://www.fishingbig.com/fishing_ta...lier/1735.html
although I use a slightly older, modified, and tuned
model, with no braking systems.

When using such reels, I spread line with my rod thumb. My casting
multipliers have tuned and balanced mag alloy spools, and the bearings are
also specially tuned for extremely light running. My multipliers are used on
top of the rod. My centrepins are used under the rod. Although when used in
a similar way to a baitcasting reel, they may also be used on top of the
rod, although this is extremely unusual nowadays. ( It was once fairly
common though).

Different ring spacings are required for the various methods, and the rods
are also designed with various actions in order to accomodate the various
casting techniques required.

A couple of my boat multipliers have level wind mechanisms, as it is
essential to spread the line when pumping heavy fish from the deeps,
otherwise the line will bite into itself, and cause problems. When using
nylon and light spools, the contraction of the nylon is also sufficient to
crush or severely deform light alloy or carbon fibre composite spools etc,
which is why my boat reels also have heavy steel spools, which are much less
suitable for casting.

For the type of light float fishing ( trotting) I described, a soft rod is
not much use, as it is simply too difficult to set the hook at distance with
such a rod. Light, fast, crisp and responsive rods up to fourteen feet are
used for this.

TL
MC

From: "Mike Connor"

George´s description of the "overhand lob" also suggests that a fair weight
was being used to cast

Yes. He had the float, some added weight, plus the bait, a nightcrawler.
Alltogether they put a substancial bend in the rod when casting and retrieving,
so I would say they totalled a fair amount of weight. The actual cast was a
slow lob that seemed to require very little effort.

George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller