Nymph theory

Assumption(s)
1) In order to fish nymphs successfully you have to get the
fly down (emergers are not nymphs, by this assumption).

2) A heavily weighted fly does not drift naturally (does
not work well)

3) Split shot 12-24" up the leader allows the nymph
to drift naturally, but strikes become harder to detect.
Split shot on the supple part of a leader tends to
sink that part of the leader deeper than the fly. So, when
the fish takes, the leader has to straighten some before
you can feel the strike

4) A sink tip line with a short leader allows the fly
drift naturally. But because the weight exists as part
of a stiff end section of fly line, the line tends to
stay straight, so it is easier to feel the strike (compared
to split shot on the supple leader).

However, sink tip lines are a pain the butt, and they
make it impossible to quickly switch back to dry flies,
when conditions call for it.

A solution:
Stick with the *extra-short* leader, but put it on a dry line.
Put an extra-big, pea-sized split shot at the junction
of the end of the fly line and the leader butt. It's not a
perfect solution. It's not as easy to cast as a sink tip,
but it is castable, and you can get the nymph down.
You can feel the strikes and you can switch back to
a dry fly without changing rods or lines.

On 12 Nov 2006 07:27:40 -0800, "salmobytes"
wrote:

Assumption(s)
1) In order to fish nymphs successfully you have to get the
fly down (emergers are not nymphs, by this assumption).

2) A heavily weighted fly does not drift naturally (does
not work well)

3) Split shot 12-24" up the leader allows the nymph
to drift naturally, but strikes become harder to detect.
Split shot on the supple part of a leader tends to
sink that part of the leader deeper than the fly. So, when
the fish takes, the leader has to straighten some before
you can feel the strike

4) A sink tip line with a short leader allows the fly
drift naturally. But because the weight exists as part
of a stiff end section of fly line, the line tends to
stay straight, so it is easier to feel the strike (compared
to split shot on the supple leader).

However, sink tip lines are a pain the butt, and they
make it impossible to quickly switch back to dry flies,
when conditions call for it.

A solution:
Stick with the *extra-short* leader, but put it on a dry line.
Put an extra-big, pea-sized split shot at the junction
of the end of the fly line and the leader butt. It's not a
perfect solution. It's not as easy to cast as a sink tip,
but it is castable, and you can get the nymph down.
You can feel the strikes and you can switch back to
a dry fly without changing rods or lines.

Your solution appears to conflict with Assumption #3.
And I'm not sure Assumption #2 is well-founded...

/daytripper

daytripper wrote:


Your solution appears to conflict with Assumption #3.
And I'm not sure Assumption #2 is well-founded...


Yes there is debate about assumption #2 (that heavily
weighted flies deattract fish). There are many believers.

Weight at the end of the fly line still sinks that part of
the line down lower than the fly. But not as much as
split shot on the thin, supple part of the leader.

A sink tip with a short leader does work the best,
IM-notso-HO, but they're a pain. I've just been
experimenting with ways to use dry lines more better,
with nymps.

"salmobytes" wrote in message
oups.com...
snip
A solution:
Stick with the *extra-short* leader, but put it on a dry line.
Put an extra-big, pea-sized split shot at the junction
of the end of the fly line and the leader butt. It's not a
perfect solution. It's not as easy to cast as a sink tip,
but it is castable, and you can get the nymph down.
You can feel the strikes and you can switch back to
a dry fly without changing rods or lines.

A solution that I find more satisfactory than any you mentioned, is to use a
floating line, standard length leader, and two flies, one of which is
weighted and acts as a tool fly. The position of the tool fly relative to
the other fly can easily be switched to meet different conditions. It may
either be placed at the end of the tippet, with the other fly attached to
the tag from the blood knot connecting the leader to the tippet, or their
relative positions may be reversed. I usually favor the second option. The
tool fly is taken only slightly less often than the other fly. Split shot
may be substituted for the tool fly in those jurisdictions where fishing 2
flys at once is prohibited.

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

Bob Weinberger wrote:

A solution that I find more satisfactory than any you mentioned, is to use a
floating line, standard length leader, and two flies, one of which is
weighted and acts as a tool fly.

Yes, that's a good rig too. I often use an extra-heavy barbell
eyed crazy charlie for that rig........it gets the fly down, it works
and I do catch fish on the crazy charlie.

All this wondering, on my part, about weight on the leader stems
from a camping trip two weeks back, when I fished in crystal
clear, slow moving water, with egg flies and weight.

When we put split shot next the egg, or used heavy glass beads,
we got more refusals than when we used an unweighted egg
and split shot on the leader, maybe 24" back up the leader.

But when we did that you couldn't so easily feel the strike.
We caught most of those fish when we saw a fish move near
the orange spot in the crystal clear water. Made me think
I've missed a hundred million nymph strikes over the years.
When you SEE them hit and still feel no strike, it makes you wonder.

"salmobytes" wrote in message
oups.com...
When we put split shot next the egg, or used heavy glass beads,
we got more refusals than when we used an unweighted egg
and split shot on the leader, maybe 24" back up the leader.

But when we did that you couldn't so easily feel the strike.
We caught most of those fish when we saw a fish move near
the orange spot in the crystal clear water. Made me think
I've missed a hundred million nymph strikes over the years.
When you SEE them hit and still feel no strike, it makes you wonder.


That can be largely solved by having the weight (tool fly) below (at the end
of the tippet) and the target fly on the tag of the blood knot leader-
tippet connection.

Bob Weinberger La Grande, OR

Bob said:
"That can be largely solved by having the weight (tool fly) below (at
the end
of the tippet) and the target fly on the tag of the blood knot leader-
tippet connection."

Yeah, maybe. I use that rig when it's windy. I remember a trip from
Gray Reef damn down. That trip was the first time I ever fished
the Crazy Charlie for weight. My partner Wayne used split shot
on the leader and I used the Crazy Charlie. We both used itty
bitty blue bead heads on the end. Wayne's a better fisherman than
I am, but I was able to keep pace because of all the extra fish
I caught on the Crazy Charlie.

When it got windy I put the Crazy Charlie out on the end and I was
still able to fish, but the strike rate went downhill instantly. You
always
get the most strikes on the end fly, so you want to put the fly that
gets
the most strikes out at the end, if at all possible.

That rig (the Crazy Charlie used at mid-leader for weight) followed
by an itty bitty beadhead, is what I call the Gray Reefer, because of
that trip. Works great. But they're a bit hard to keep lit when it's
that windy.

I'm just rambling now, but I do remember something worth
mentioning. In my last post I mentioned a North Platte Wyoming
trip, below Gray Reef damn, where I used a Crazy Charlie for
weight and small blue beadhead nymph out on the end.

The other rig that really killed them that day (it was mid April and
the big
rainbows were active on shallow redds) was a Crazy Charlie
followed by a small, maybe 2" long red plastic worm from Wallmart.

That rig really drove my fishing partner nuts. I remember between the
two of us we caught close to two dozen fish at the put-in, before
sliding
the boat in the water. Those little red
rubber worms are hard to find. But they beat the hell out
of San Juan worms. Same concept, really. But way more effective.

/iss/"salmobytes" wrote in message
oups.com...

Bob Weinberger wrote:

A solution that I find more satisfactory than any you mentioned, is to
use a
floating line, standard length leader, and two flies, one of which is
weighted and acts as a tool fly.

Yes, that's a good rig too. I often use an extra-heavy barbell
eyed crazy charlie for that rig........it gets the fly down, it works
and I do catch fish on the crazy charlie.

All this wondering, on my part, about weight on the leader stems
from a camping trip two weeks back, when I fished in crystal
clear, slow moving water, with egg flies and weight.

When we put split shot next the egg, or used heavy glass beads,
we got more refusals than when we used an unweighted egg
and split shot on the leader, maybe 24" back up the leader.

But when we did that you couldn't so easily feel the strike.
We caught most of those fish when we saw a fish move near
the orange spot in the crystal clear water. Made me think
I've missed a hundred million nymph strikes over the years.
When you SEE them hit and still feel no strike, it makes you wonder.

And as I get older and for various reasons - I miss even more strikes - the
odds are going down for me...

What is a Crazy Charlie?

Fred

I googled it

A Bonefish fly?
It would have to be small .. interesting

Thanks
Fred


"Fred Lebow" wrote in message
et...
/iss/"salmobytes" wrote in message
oups.com...

Bob Weinberger wrote:

A solution that I find more satisfactory than any you mentioned, is to
use a
floating line, standard length leader, and two flies, one of which is
weighted and acts as a tool fly.

Yes, that's a good rig too. I often use an extra-heavy barbell
eyed crazy charlie for that rig........it gets the fly down, it works
and I do catch fish on the crazy charlie.

All this wondering, on my part, about weight on the leader stems
from a camping trip two weeks back, when I fished in crystal
clear, slow moving water, with egg flies and weight.

When we put split shot next the egg, or used heavy glass beads,
we got more refusals than when we used an unweighted egg
and split shot on the leader, maybe 24" back up the leader.

But when we did that you couldn't so easily feel the strike.
We caught most of those fish when we saw a fish move near
the orange spot in the crystal clear water. Made me think
I've missed a hundred million nymph strikes over the years.
When you SEE them hit and still feel no strike, it makes you wonder.

And as I get older and for various reasons - I miss even more strikes -
the odds are going down for me...

What is a Crazy Charlie?

Fred