Small business in the USA..........

Hi All,

I have had my own small business in California for about 30 years. In the US
and particularly California, small businesses are threatened more now than
ever. Many are closing down because they just can't make things profitable
any more with constantly rising overheads like insurances, taxes and
benefits. Even is a good economy things will be tough for small/medium size
businesses.

In the future in the US many will need to have a very small business with no
employees right out of their home so there is almost no overhead. The other
businesses will all have to be very large to compete by merging constantly.
Businesses will have to be extremely small and efficient or extremely large
and efficient to compete in today's world economy.

Most "mom & pop" stores like mine will never survive in today's market. I am
only still here in business because I have been in business for a long time
and have not debt service.

If you find a small business of any kind that really does a good job for
you, I would try to support and promote them as much as possible so they can
survive these times.

Most "state workers" and "school teachers" in CA make much more than most
small business owners.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA
www.kiene.com


--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA
www.kiene.com

"Bill Kiene" wrote...

I have had my own small business in California for about 30 years. In the US
and particularly California, small businesses are threatened more now than
ever. Many are closing down because they just can't make things profitable
any more with constantly rising overheads like insurances, taxes and
benefits. Even is a good economy things will be tough for small/medium size
businesses.

In the future in the US many will need to have a very small business with no
employees right out of their home so there is almost no overhead. The other
businesses will all have to be very large to compete by merging constantly.
Businesses will have to be extremely small and efficient or extremely large
and efficient to compete in today's world economy.

Most "mom & pop" stores like mine will never survive in today's market. I am
only still here in business because I have been in business for a long time
and have not debt service.

If you find a small business of any kind that really does a good job for
you, I would try to support and promote them as much as possible so they can
survive these times.

Most "state workers" and "school teachers" in CA make much more than most
small business owners.

This is a really self-serving message, Bill. Business owners make the choice to
be business owners - no one else does that for them. Much of that decision may
have nothing to do with making the big bucks.

BTW, I DO try to support local small businesses, but only when they offer me
something back, like convenience, specialized service, or even something as
simple as taking the time to know my name. We have a local pet store in town
where I buy all my pet supplies. The guy treats me right, greets me by name,
talks to me about the weather, and gives great advice. We have a local sporting
goods store that I go to only when it's convenient for me because I've been
going there for 15 years and they still treat me with the same indifference as
the first day I walked in the door. There's a fly shop not too far from my house
that I go to only infrequently because of the same reasons. Most of my purchases
are from a fly shop 1,000 miles from my door because they treat me like a friend
and they show appreciation for my business.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

From: "Tim J."

We have a local sporting
goods store that I go to only when it's convenient for me because I've been
going there for 15 years and they still treat me with the same indifference
as
the first day I walked in the door.

There's a fly shop not too far from my house
that I go to only infrequently because of the same reasons. Most of my
purchases
are from a fly shop 1,000 miles from my door because they treat me like a
friend
and they show appreciation for my business.

Yup, I'm sure we are speaking of the same two local stores, and my experiences
are the same. Not only that, but store #2 is way too pricey. Funny thing is,
I'll stop in at the Orvis store in Manchester, VT a couple times a year and get
treated better than at the local stores. I also agree about mail order. At this
stage of my fishing life I am pretty well set except for a bit of tying
material, leaders and tippets, and the occasional line. I've narrowed my
choices down to two mail order houses, (both well known on ROFF), that I
mentioned in a previous post. Although I have never met either owner in person,
I have received excellent service and value from both, and kind of wish I had
more business to give them.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

Jeff Miller wrote:
on the contrary, tim, i think bill is simply stating a fact based on his
unique position and experience. i don't recall him engaging in
self-serving solicitations here, nor do i think his comment in this
forum has much meaning in terms of his own shop's success. it does
suggest a philosophy of consumption that can have meaning for others,
though i'm afraid the die is cast. i'm glad bill, walt, and harry are
here...and i hope folks will continue to support them and others like
them by making purchases from them instead of from cabela's, etc. - even
if it costs a few dollars more.

Right on, Jeff. I'll tell you what. When you go into Bill's shop you get
service and personal attention from someone who knows what he's talking
about, whether it's Bill or someone on his staff. That's worth
something, because you'll never get it at Walmart.

I'll confess to buying stuff from places like Cabelas and Garts, but I
have to know EXACTLY what I want. If I'm buying high-ticket items that
can't be discounted, like a Sage rod, I'll buy from Bill or someone like
him, and if Bill (or some flyshop owner like him) can give me a
reasonable discount on high-ticket items that can be discounted (like a
pontoon boat), I'll buy from him.

Harry Mason's flies are the best. Period. Full stop.

I've never ordered anything from Walt, to my utter shame. I'll have to
fix that eventually.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Tim,

I agree with you completely and I guess if you slowed down and re-read my
post you would see we are saying about the same thing.

You are doing the right thing. I like your style. I wish more people shopped
like you do.

We have people come in and spend a half hour with one of my staff trying on
every wader and boot we have in stock and then tell my sale help they are
ordering it out of state to merely save the sales tax.(7.5%) We 90% of all
the fly shops are closed in about 5 to 10 years, that person can't abuse us
any more.

If someone doesn't treat you right don't support them because they don't
belong in a small business.

Your friend in the pet shop should be around for a long time because he does
understand how things are suppose to be.

Part of my point is to make sure no one thinks quitting that government job
and starting a small business in CA is going to be a good idea unless it is
out of his or her home with no employees.

My prediction is in about ten years in the US there will only be ultra small
business like out of a home or extremely large businesses like Costco and
Wal-Mart.

Also, I am not complaining, just observing after 40 years of retailing.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA
www.kiene.com

"Tim J." wrote in message
news:3ifkb.586585$cF.256421@rwcrnsc53...

"Bill Kiene" wrote...

I have had my own small business in California for about 30 years. In
the US
and particularly California, small businesses are threatened more now
than
ever. Many are closing down because they just can't make things
profitable
any more with constantly rising overheads like insurances, taxes and
benefits. Even is a good economy things will be tough for small/medium
size
businesses.

In the future in the US many will need to have a very small business
with no
employees right out of their home so there is almost no overhead. The
other
businesses will all have to be very large to compete by merging
constantly.
Businesses will have to be extremely small and efficient or extremely
large
and efficient to compete in today's world economy.

Most "mom & pop" stores like mine will never survive in today's market.
I am
only still here in business because I have been in business for a long
time
and have not debt service.

If you find a small business of any kind that really does a good job for
you, I would try to support and promote them as much as possible so they
can
survive these times.

Most "state workers" and "school teachers" in CA make much more than
most
small business owners.

This is a really self-serving message, Bill. Business owners make the
choice to
be business owners - no one else does that for them. Much of that decision
may
have nothing to do with making the big bucks.

BTW, I DO try to support local small businesses, but only when they offer
me
something back, like convenience, specialized service, or even something
as
simple as taking the time to know my name. We have a local pet store in
town
where I buy all my pet supplies. The guy treats me right, greets me by
name,
talks to me about the weather, and gives great advice. We have a local
sporting
goods store that I go to only when it's convenient for me because I've
been
going there for 15 years and they still treat me with the same
indifference as
the first day I walked in the door. There's a fly shop not too far from my
house
that I go to only infrequently because of the same reasons. Most of my
purchases
are from a fly shop 1,000 miles from my door because they treat me like a
friend
and they show appreciation for my business.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Bill,
your snippet about having a 'customer' try on many pairs of waders and then
blithely walk out the door telling how he was going to buy it somewhere else
to save a few bucks, made me smile.
I started and owned NZ's biggest independent tackle shop which I had for 10
years, but the pressure put on margins by the chains, groups, and yes
Cabelas and Bass Pro, forced me to rethink whether I needed the agro - and I
guess the deciding factor was just how often we 'sold' the product, which
the 'customer' bought elsewhere, so "Just Fishin" was sold.

But even amongst these problems were a few treasures:
I spent nearly two hours selling a couple of Korean businessmen a full trout
fishing kit-out, rods reels, lines, waders, flies - you name it they
bought - well they eventually bought it after nearly twenty minutes of
haggling over discounts. The haggling over, my margin slashed but not
fatally, the money safely in my till, one of the gentlemen asked me how to
set up some of the gear - I, joking, replied that it would cost him $100.00
and carried on with the demo. At the end of the demo the businessman handed
me a $100.00 note, I said I was only joking.
He 'forced' the money on me saying, "Bish, as you already know I will argue
and haggle all day over the price of things, but I will never haggle over
the price of knowledge!"

Running a tackle shop ain't all bad:-)

Tony Bishop

Bill Kiene wrote:
Hi All,

I have had my own small business in California for about 30 years. In the US
and particularly California, small businesses are threatened more now than
ever. Many are closing down because they just can't make things profitable
any more with constantly rising overheads like insurances, taxes and
benefits. Even is a good economy things will be tough for small/medium size
businesses.

In the future in the US many will need to have a very small business with no
employees right out of their home so there is almost no overhead. The other
businesses will all have to be very large to compete by merging constantly.
Businesses will have to be extremely small and efficient or extremely large
and efficient to compete in today's world economy.

Most "mom & pop" stores like mine will never survive in today's market. I am
only still here in business because I have been in business for a long time
and have not debt service.

If you find a small business of any kind that really does a good job for
you, I would try to support and promote them as much as possible so they can
survive these times.

Most "state workers" and "school teachers" in CA make much more than most
small business owners.


Bill, you're observations, as viwed by me, seem to be correct.
Here in NC, I have personally seen or heard of five fly shops
closing down in the last two years.

When I started the "flyshop" out of the house back in '98, I did
so to diversify my bookstore. I had carefully observed the
statistics and there was a noticable declining trend in online
sales. The "bread-and-butter" books were no longer selling for 8
or so dollars..... they were selling for 5 bucks or so and today
even lower in most instances. That is great for the consumer but
is a death knell for an entreprenuer. I couldn't compete with the
garage sellers selling books for those prices. More
importantly, it was, and still is, becoming harder and harder to
find quality antiquarian books and art which I could offer to my
clients.

So, I diversified and with a bit-of-luck, the welcome fiscal
support of many roffians, hard work, and some most appreciated
advise that you personally provided me, I was able to build the
small home-based business (about 40 square feet) into a nice
modest store a few years later.

Is it tough? Hell yes. Most times, like most small business
owners, I'm worried about paying my bills on time and meeting
payroll. Many times my very modest salary check goes uncashed for
weeks at a time. I won't talk about the hours.

Is it worth it? Hell yes. I'm, well presently, happily
self-employed. The decisions I make are mine and mine alone. Some
are good and some are not so good. Live and learn. Although times
at the shop can oftentimes be boring as hell as you wonder if
anyone will ever walk through the front door again, when that
someone does, it is fun.

Well, enough babbling.... time to try and go fishing on my day
off.... if I can manage to complete the honeydews ;-)

--Wally

"Bill Kiene" wrote...
Tim,

I agree with you completely and I guess if you slowed down and re-read my
post you would see we are saying about the same thing.

Sometimes writing is not the best way to communicate. When the first sentence of
your post is all about you, it brings the rest of the post with it. If you agree
completely with my post, then we are on the same page. My father-in-law owned a
business in SoCal for years, and I watched him struggle with many of the issues
you mentioned. But he provided the service and community the bigger companies
did not and was successful. The main success of the business was not the
financial gain, but that he was able to keep many family members employed and
taught his children good lessons about what is expected of them along the way. I
include myself in that bundle - I worked for him for ten years and think of him
often when choices are before me. Kinda like a WWFD decision, only water and
falling aren't usually involved.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Bill Kiene wrote:

PS: It is really sad to hear about how many people that have fly shops treat
people badly. When I hear this, I wonder why they ever got into this
business?

The town I (usually) live in has five fly shops and there are about the
same number within an hour and a half drive. There is a huge turnover,
not just in staff, but also, recently, in owners. I think most got into
it because they love fishing, then they find out they're in a wildly
competitive business in an "industry" that's no longer in the
exponential phase of its growth curve. They've either got no time for
fishing or they find themselves--when they come back from a fishing
trip--sorting out the messes made by the hired help. When I see the
headaches they have, I think that if I wanted to kill my own love for
fishing, nothing would do it sooner than buying a fly shop.

The problem you have, though, with customers wasting your staff's time
in order to avoid sales taxes.... Arnold's going to sort that all out
soon, no?

Joking aside, hope you can hang in there and find a way to continue
enjoying it.

JR

Thanks for the great post, Tony.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA
www.kiene.com

"BishFish" wrote in message
...
Bill,
your snippet about having a 'customer' try on many pairs of waders and
then
blithely walk out the door telling how he was going to buy it somewhere
else
to save a few bucks, made me smile.
I started and owned NZ's biggest independent tackle shop which I had for
10
years, but the pressure put on margins by the chains, groups, and yes
Cabelas and Bass Pro, forced me to rethink whether I needed the agro - and
I
guess the deciding factor was just how often we 'sold' the product, which
the 'customer' bought elsewhere, so "Just Fishin" was sold.

But even amongst these problems were a few treasures:
I spent nearly two hours selling a couple of Korean businessmen a full
trout
fishing kit-out, rods reels, lines, waders, flies - you name it they
bought - well they eventually bought it after nearly twenty minutes of
haggling over discounts. The haggling over, my margin slashed but not
fatally, the money safely in my till, one of the gentlemen asked me how to
set up some of the gear - I, joking, replied that it would cost him
$100.00
and carried on with the demo. At the end of the demo the businessman
handed
me a $100.00 note, I said I was only joking.
He 'forced' the money on me saying, "Bish, as you already know I will
argue
and haggle all day over the price of things, but I will never haggle over
the price of knowledge!"

Running a tackle shop ain't all bad:-)

Tony Bishop