Crybaby snowmobilers are confused, not realizing you can snowmobile all over NW Wyoming/Montana

""I´ve seen grown men in tears," said David McCray, who owns Two Top
Snowmobile Rental. "I would like to ask the judge what he expects me
to tell people who have booked for Christmas. I´d like for him to tell
me which people go into the park and which will not. That´s my
immediate problem." "


http://www.idahostatesman.com/story.asp?ID=56543


National forests offer option to Yellowstsone snowmobiling
Wyoming plans to appeal ban in national park
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





David Grubbs / Billings Gazette
Snowmobilers line up Wednesday at the West Entrance of Yellowstone
National Park. Under rules now in effect, all snowmobiles in the park
must be guided.


Snowmobiling information



Snowmobilers may not be able to get into Yellowstone National Park,
but riding opportunities are still available in the West Yellowstone
and Island Park area.
A judge´s decision on Tuesday limited snowmobiling in Yellowstone Park
to guided tours and snow coaches, but nearby national forests offer
hundreds of miles of groomed trails and off-trail riding.

"There is lots of riding," said Marysue Costello, executive director
for West Yellowstone Chamber of Commerce. "And the snow this year is
so perfect."

Wednesday morning, hundreds of snowmobilers converged on Yellowstone
and neighboring Grand Teton, armed with entrance reservations made
weeks ago. However, the ruling meant that only riders who were part of
commercially guided tours could enter the park.

Yellowstone officials said many people with reservations were turned
away, but that they were offered refunds.

The attorney general of Wyoming, the International Snowmobile
Manufacturers Association and a motorized recreation advocacy group
moved to challenge a federal court ruling that reinstated a ban on
snowmobiles in Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks.

A spokesman for the Bush administration said the National Park Service
is considering an appeal of the ban.

Wyoming Attorney General Patrick J. Crank said his office would appeal
the Tuesday ruling by U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan.

"We´re disappointed, but the battle is not over," said Bill Dart,
public lands director for the Pocatello, Idaho-based BlueRibbon
Coalition.

"We can´t give up on it. It sets a bad precedent, and not only for
Yellowstone. We are afraid that this would be a precedent to launch
new attacks against snowmobiles across the country."

Norm Burnel was among those who bristled after being told that his
group of self-guided snowmobilers wouldn´t be allowed to enter
Yellowstone National Park at 7 a.m. Wednesday morning.

"This is a farce," railed Burnel, of Manitoba, with his snowmobile
parked in the dark in front of the West Entrance. "This is against the
law."

The change meant reverting to rules enacted in the Clinton era that
were more restrictive. As a result, the number of people allowed to
enter Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks daily shrank
overnight from 950 to 439. And from this snowbound town on the park´s
boundary, only 279 snowmobilers would be allowed entry each day, all
guided.

In West Yellowstone, Mont., the most popular entry point for
snowmobiles, rental operators said the ruling left them and their
clients confused.

Because of the mandated 50 percent reduction in snowmobiles allowed to
enter Yellowstone, nearby rental shops were struggling to determine
who among their clients could be served.

"I´ve seen grown men in tears," said David McCray, who owns Two Top
Snowmobile Rental. "I would like to ask the judge what he expects me
to tell people who have booked for Christmas. I´d like for him to tell
me which people go into the park and which will not. That´s my
immediate problem."

McCray said he was swamped with calls from clients around the country
who had planned trips and were frantically trying to find out if they
should still come.

McCray said merchants are concerned for their well-being. Some 92
percent of the town´s $2.5 million budget comes from resort taxes that
visiting snowmobilers pay at hotels and rental outlets.

Costello reported about two feet of snow on the valley floor and up to
five feet in nearby mountains.

Snowmobilers can still ride in Yellowstone, but they must be on guided
trips, and most are booked for the holidays, Costello said.

"Between Christmas and New Year´s, it will be difficult to book a
trip," she said.

But snowmobilers will find 200 miles of groomed trails open for riding
on the nearby Gallatin National Forest. There is also off-trail riding
available in some areas of the forest. Trailheads are located near
West Yellowstone.

Idaho riders will need a $15 registration sticker for their sleds,
which are available in West Yellowstone.

Snowmobilers have another 400 miles of groomed trails in Island Park,
one of the most popular snowmobile riding areas in Idaho. Nearly all
those trails offer off-trail riding, and some trails also link with
trails in the Gallatin National Forest.

I don't have much sympathy with the snowmobilers. I put them in the same
category of Jetskiers who do their best to upset me when I want a quit day
fishing. you cannot make too much noise in your home and neighborhood.
Why should you be allowed to make horrendous noise in recreational areas?


"Sportsmen Against Bush" wrote in message
m...
""I´ve seen grown men in tears," said David McCray, who owns Two Top
Snowmobile Rental. "I would like to ask the judge what he expects me
to tell people who have booked for Christmas. I´d like for him to tell
me which people go into the park and which will not. That´s my
immediate problem." "


http://www.idahostatesman.com/story.asp?ID=56543


National forests offer option to Yellowstsone snowmobiling
Wyoming plans to appeal ban in national park
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------





David Grubbs / Billings Gazette
Snowmobilers line up Wednesday at the West Entrance of Yellowstone
National Park. Under rules now in effect, all snowmobiles in the park
must be guided.


Snowmobiling information



Snowmobilers may not be able to get into Yellowstone National Park,
but riding opportunities are still available in the West Yellowstone
and Island Park area.
A judge´s decision on Tuesday limited snowmobiling in Yellowstone Park
to guided tours and snow coaches, but nearby national forests offer
hundreds of miles of groomed trails and off-trail riding.

"There is lots of riding," said Marysue Costello, executive director
for West Yellowstone Chamber of Commerce. "And the snow this year is
so perfect."

Wednesday morning, hundreds of snowmobilers converged on Yellowstone
and neighboring Grand Teton, armed with entrance reservations made
weeks ago. However, the ruling meant that only riders who were part of
commercially guided tours could enter the park.

Yellowstone officials said many people with reservations were turned
away, but that they were offered refunds.

The attorney general of Wyoming, the International Snowmobile
Manufacturers Association and a motorized recreation advocacy group
moved to challenge a federal court ruling that reinstated a ban on
snowmobiles in Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks.

A spokesman for the Bush administration said the National Park Service
is considering an appeal of the ban.

Wyoming Attorney General Patrick J. Crank said his office would appeal
the Tuesday ruling by U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan.

"We´re disappointed, but the battle is not over," said Bill Dart,
public lands director for the Pocatello, Idaho-based BlueRibbon
Coalition.

"We can´t give up on it. It sets a bad precedent, and not only for
Yellowstone. We are afraid that this would be a precedent to launch
new attacks against snowmobiles across the country."

Norm Burnel was among those who bristled after being told that his
group of self-guided snowmobilers wouldn´t be allowed to enter
Yellowstone National Park at 7 a.m. Wednesday morning.

"This is a farce," railed Burnel, of Manitoba, with his snowmobile
parked in the dark in front of the West Entrance. "This is against the
law."

The change meant reverting to rules enacted in the Clinton era that
were more restrictive. As a result, the number of people allowed to
enter Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks daily shrank
overnight from 950 to 439. And from this snowbound town on the park´s
boundary, only 279 snowmobilers would be allowed entry each day, all
guided.

In West Yellowstone, Mont., the most popular entry point for
snowmobiles, rental operators said the ruling left them and their
clients confused.

Because of the mandated 50 percent reduction in snowmobiles allowed to
enter Yellowstone, nearby rental shops were struggling to determine
who among their clients could be served.

"I´ve seen grown men in tears," said David McCray, who owns Two Top
Snowmobile Rental. "I would like to ask the judge what he expects me
to tell people who have booked for Christmas. I´d like for him to tell
me which people go into the park and which will not. That´s my
immediate problem."

McCray said he was swamped with calls from clients around the country
who had planned trips and were frantically trying to find out if they
should still come.

McCray said merchants are concerned for their well-being. Some 92
percent of the town´s $2.5 million budget comes from resort taxes that
visiting snowmobilers pay at hotels and rental outlets.

Costello reported about two feet of snow on the valley floor and up to
five feet in nearby mountains.

Snowmobilers can still ride in Yellowstone, but they must be on guided
trips, and most are booked for the holidays, Costello said.

"Between Christmas and New Year´s, it will be difficult to book a
trip," she said.

But snowmobilers will find 200 miles of groomed trails open for riding
on the nearby Gallatin National Forest. There is also off-trail riding
available in some areas of the forest. Trailheads are located near
West Yellowstone.

Idaho riders will need a $15 registration sticker for their sleds,
which are available in West Yellowstone.

Snowmobilers have another 400 miles of groomed trails in Island Park,
one of the most popular snowmobile riding areas in Idaho. Nearly all
those trails offer off-trail riding, and some trails also link with
trails in the Gallatin National Forest.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.551 / Virus Database: 343 - Release Date: 12/13/2003

"Sierra fisher" wrote in message
...
I don't have much sympathy with the snowmobilers. I put them in the same
category of Jetskiers who do their best to upset me when I want a quit day
fishing. you cannot make too much noise in your home and neighborhood.
Why should you be allowed to make horrendous noise in recreational areas?


If you live in a remote area, you don't have the luxury of preventing those
two-cycle two-year-olds from making your life miserable. Used to be quiet
out here in the desert before the city trash started bringing out those
noise makers. Now, every weekend is pure hell. Four cycles cut down the
noise, but it's still intolerable. They're just couch potatoes on wheels as
far as I'm concerned. They do more damage to the desert in fifteen minutes
than I and my dog will ever do in three years of packing.

They cry that they can't get a real wilderness experience. There were plenty
of wilderness experiences before outside of the wilderness areas, but they
systematically destroyed and piled trash on the ones that were not
designated wilderness and moved on to the next area and destroyed it until
now only the wilderness areas are left. There may be some irresponsible
packers in the world, but the number has to be insignificant compared to the
two-cycle two-year-olds because at least they are able to get off their dead
asses and walk.


"Sportsmen Against Bush" wrote in message
m...
""I´ve seen grown men in tears," said David McCray, who owns Two Top
Snowmobile Rental. "I would like to ask the judge what he expects me
to tell people who have booked for Christmas. I´d like for him to tell
me which people go into the park and which will not. That´s my
immediate problem." "


http://www.idahostatesman.com/story.asp?ID=56543


National forests offer option to Yellowstsone snowmobiling
Wyoming plans to appeal ban in national park

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------





David Grubbs / Billings Gazette
Snowmobilers line up Wednesday at the West Entrance of Yellowstone
National Park. Under rules now in effect, all snowmobiles in the park
must be guided.


Snowmobiling information



Snowmobilers may not be able to get into Yellowstone National Park,
but riding opportunities are still available in the West Yellowstone
and Island Park area.
A judge´s decision on Tuesday limited snowmobiling in Yellowstone Park
to guided tours and snow coaches, but nearby national forests offer
hundreds of miles of groomed trails and off-trail riding.

"There is lots of riding," said Marysue Costello, executive director
for West Yellowstone Chamber of Commerce. "And the snow this year is
so perfect."

Wednesday morning, hundreds of snowmobilers converged on Yellowstone
and neighboring Grand Teton, armed with entrance reservations made
weeks ago. However, the ruling meant that only riders who were part of
commercially guided tours could enter the park.

Yellowstone officials said many people with reservations were turned
away, but that they were offered refunds.

The attorney general of Wyoming, the International Snowmobile
Manufacturers Association and a motorized recreation advocacy group
moved to challenge a federal court ruling that reinstated a ban on
snowmobiles in Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks.

A spokesman for the Bush administration said the National Park Service
is considering an appeal of the ban.

Wyoming Attorney General Patrick J. Crank said his office would appeal
the Tuesday ruling by U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan.

"We´re disappointed, but the battle is not over," said Bill Dart,
public lands director for the Pocatello, Idaho-based BlueRibbon
Coalition.

"We can´t give up on it. It sets a bad precedent, and not only for
Yellowstone. We are afraid that this would be a precedent to launch
new attacks against snowmobiles across the country."

Norm Burnel was among those who bristled after being told that his
group of self-guided snowmobilers wouldn´t be allowed to enter
Yellowstone National Park at 7 a.m. Wednesday morning.

"This is a farce," railed Burnel, of Manitoba, with his snowmobile
parked in the dark in front of the West Entrance. "This is against the
law."

The change meant reverting to rules enacted in the Clinton era that
were more restrictive. As a result, the number of people allowed to
enter Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks daily shrank
overnight from 950 to 439. And from this snowbound town on the park´s
boundary, only 279 snowmobilers would be allowed entry each day, all
guided.

In West Yellowstone, Mont., the most popular entry point for
snowmobiles, rental operators said the ruling left them and their
clients confused.

Because of the mandated 50 percent reduction in snowmobiles allowed to
enter Yellowstone, nearby rental shops were struggling to determine
who among their clients could be served.

"I´ve seen grown men in tears," said David McCray, who owns Two Top
Snowmobile Rental. "I would like to ask the judge what he expects me
to tell people who have booked for Christmas. I´d like for him to tell
me which people go into the park and which will not. That´s my
immediate problem."

McCray said he was swamped with calls from clients around the country
who had planned trips and were frantically trying to find out if they
should still come.

McCray said merchants are concerned for their well-being. Some 92
percent of the town´s $2.5 million budget comes from resort taxes that
visiting snowmobilers pay at hotels and rental outlets.

Costello reported about two feet of snow on the valley floor and up to
five feet in nearby mountains.

Snowmobilers can still ride in Yellowstone, but they must be on guided
trips, and most are booked for the holidays, Costello said.

"Between Christmas and New Year´s, it will be difficult to book a
trip," she said.

But snowmobilers will find 200 miles of groomed trails open for riding
on the nearby Gallatin National Forest. There is also off-trail riding
available in some areas of the forest. Trailheads are located near
West Yellowstone.

Idaho riders will need a $15 registration sticker for their sleds,
which are available in West Yellowstone.

Snowmobilers have another 400 miles of groomed trails in Island Park,
one of the most popular snowmobile riding areas in Idaho. Nearly all
those trails offer off-trail riding, and some trails also link with
trails in the Gallatin National Forest.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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I LOVE that "Couch potatoes on wheels"

When you think about it, it's a perfect way of describing a lot of theses
"motorized sports" .



"Boomer" wrote in message
...

"Sierra fisher" wrote in message
...
I don't have much sympathy with the snowmobilers. I put them in the
same
category of Jetskiers who do their best to upset me when I want a quit
day
fishing. you cannot make too much noise in your home and
neighborhood.
Why should you be allowed to make horrendous noise in recreational
areas?


If you live in a remote area, you don't have the luxury of preventing
those
two-cycle two-year-olds from making your life miserable. Used to be quiet
out here in the desert before the city trash started bringing out those
noise makers. Now, every weekend is pure hell. Four cycles cut down the
noise, but it's still intolerable. They're just couch potatoes on wheels
as
far as I'm concerned. They do more damage to the desert in fifteen minutes
than I and my dog will ever do in three years of packing.

They cry that they can't get a real wilderness experience. There were
plenty
of wilderness experiences before outside of the wilderness areas, but they
systematically destroyed and piled trash on the ones that were not
designated wilderness and moved on to the next area and destroyed it until
now only the wilderness areas are left. There may be some irresponsible
packers in the world, but the number has to be insignificant compared to
the
two-cycle two-year-olds because at least they are able to get off their
dead
asses and walk.


"Sportsmen Against Bush" wrote in message
m...
""I´ve seen grown men in tears," said David McCray, who owns Two Top
Snowmobile Rental. "I would like to ask the judge what he expects me
to tell people who have booked for Christmas. I´d like for him to tell
me which people go into the park and which will not. That´s my
immediate problem." "


http://www.idahostatesman.com/story.asp?ID=56543


National forests offer option to Yellowstsone snowmobiling
Wyoming plans to appeal ban in national park


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------





David Grubbs / Billings Gazette
Snowmobilers line up Wednesday at the West Entrance of Yellowstone
National Park. Under rules now in effect, all snowmobiles in the park
must be guided.


Snowmobiling information



Snowmobilers may not be able to get into Yellowstone National Park,
but riding opportunities are still available in the West Yellowstone
and Island Park area.
A judge´s decision on Tuesday limited snowmobiling in Yellowstone Park
to guided tours and snow coaches, but nearby national forests offer
hundreds of miles of groomed trails and off-trail riding.

"There is lots of riding," said Marysue Costello, executive director
for West Yellowstone Chamber of Commerce. "And the snow this year is
so perfect."

Wednesday morning, hundreds of snowmobilers converged on Yellowstone
and neighboring Grand Teton, armed with entrance reservations made
weeks ago. However, the ruling meant that only riders who were part of
commercially guided tours could enter the park.

Yellowstone officials said many people with reservations were turned
away, but that they were offered refunds.

The attorney general of Wyoming, the International Snowmobile
Manufacturers Association and a motorized recreation advocacy group
moved to challenge a federal court ruling that reinstated a ban on
snowmobiles in Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks.

A spokesman for the Bush administration said the National Park Service
is considering an appeal of the ban.

Wyoming Attorney General Patrick J. Crank said his office would appeal
the Tuesday ruling by U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan.

"We´re disappointed, but the battle is not over," said Bill Dart,
public lands director for the Pocatello, Idaho-based BlueRibbon
Coalition.

"We can´t give up on it. It sets a bad precedent, and not only for
Yellowstone. We are afraid that this would be a precedent to launch
new attacks against snowmobiles across the country."

Norm Burnel was among those who bristled after being told that his
group of self-guided snowmobilers wouldn´t be allowed to enter
Yellowstone National Park at 7 a.m. Wednesday morning.

"This is a farce," railed Burnel, of Manitoba, with his snowmobile
parked in the dark in front of the West Entrance. "This is against the
law."

The change meant reverting to rules enacted in the Clinton era that
were more restrictive. As a result, the number of people allowed to
enter Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks daily shrank
overnight from 950 to 439. And from this snowbound town on the park´s
boundary, only 279 snowmobilers would be allowed entry each day, all
guided.

In West Yellowstone, Mont., the most popular entry point for
snowmobiles, rental operators said the ruling left them and their
clients confused.

Because of the mandated 50 percent reduction in snowmobiles allowed to
enter Yellowstone, nearby rental shops were struggling to determine
who among their clients could be served.

"I´ve seen grown men in tears," said David McCray, who owns Two Top
Snowmobile Rental. "I would like to ask the judge what he expects me
to tell people who have booked for Christmas. I´d like for him to tell
me which people go into the park and which will not. That´s my
immediate problem."

McCray said he was swamped with calls from clients around the country
who had planned trips and were frantically trying to find out if they
should still come.

McCray said merchants are concerned for their well-being. Some 92
percent of the town´s $2.5 million budget comes from resort taxes that
visiting snowmobilers pay at hotels and rental outlets.

Costello reported about two feet of snow on the valley floor and up to
five feet in nearby mountains.

Snowmobilers can still ride in Yellowstone, but they must be on guided
trips, and most are booked for the holidays, Costello said.

"Between Christmas and New Year´s, it will be difficult to book a
trip," she said.

But snowmobilers will find 200 miles of groomed trails open for riding
on the nearby Gallatin National Forest. There is also off-trail riding
available in some areas of the forest. Trailheads are located near
West Yellowstone.

Idaho riders will need a $15 registration sticker for their sleds,
which are available in West Yellowstone.

Snowmobilers have another 400 miles of groomed trails in Island Park,
one of the most popular snowmobile riding areas in Idaho. Nearly all
those trails offer off-trail riding, and some trails also link with
trails in the Gallatin National Forest.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.551 / Virus Database: 343 - Release Date: 12/13/2003






---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"Sierra fisher" wrote in message
...
I LOVE that "Couch potatoes on wheels"

When you think about it, it's a perfect way of describing a lot of theses
"motorized sports" .



Of course, if ya have never been 4-wheelin' or such, ya really wouldn't
know, now would ya?

Op

"Guyz--N-Flyz" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Sierra fisher" wrote in message
...
I LOVE that "Couch potatoes on wheels"

When you think about it, it's a perfect way of describing a lot of
theses
"motorized sports" .



Of course, if ya have never been 4-wheelin' or such, ya really wouldn't
know, now would ya?

Op



A tough day for a four-wheeler is doing without power steering, air
conditioning, and a case of beer. Tsk, tsk.

"As someone who lives in a national forest"
The real definition of a environmenalist = Someone who built their cabin in
the woods last month.

'
"Charles M. Kozierok" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Sierra fisher wrote:
} I don't have much sympathy with the snowmobilers. I put them in the
same
} category of Jetskiers who do their best to upset me when I want a quit
day
} fishing. you cannot make too much noise in your home and
neighborhood.
} Why should you be allowed to make horrendous noise in recreational
areas?

As someone who lives in a national forest, I have to put up with
snowmobilers every winter. While there are some considerate
snowmobilers, as a whole they are disruptive, disrespectful, and
generally a nuisance.

That said, I *do* have sympathy for them in this situation -- they
basically had the rug pulled out from under them. I would be pretty
upset if I spent thousands based on a particular plan, only to have it
changed literally the day before I was supposed to begin my visit.

A much more reasonable solution would have been to reinstitute the new
rules after a delay of say a week or two, so those who had already
travelled to the area would not have been left high and dry.

peace,

-*-
charles

B J Conner wrote:
"As someone who lives in a national forest"
The real definition of a environmenalist = Someone who built their cabin in
the woods last month.

Sorry to disagree, BJ, but the last thing we need is people building new
cabins.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Don't forget the damn dirt bikes screwing up the peaceful
mountains.
Ernie

"Charles M. Kozierok" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Sierra fisher wrote:
} I don't have much sympathy with the snowmobilers. I put them
in the same
} category of Jetskiers who do their best to upset me when I
want a quit day
} fishing. you cannot make too much noise in your home and
neighborhood.
} Why should you be allowed to make horrendous noise in
recreational areas?

As someone who lives in a national forest, I have to put up
with
snowmobilers every winter. While there are some considerate
snowmobilers, as a whole they are disruptive, disrespectful,
and
generally a nuisance.

That said, I *do* have sympathy for them in this situation --
they
basically had the rug pulled out from under them. I would be
pretty
upset if I spent thousands based on a particular plan, only to
have it
changed literally the day before I was supposed to begin my
visit.

A much more reasonable solution would have been to reinstitute
the new
rules after a delay of say a week or two, so those who had
already
travelled to the area would not have been left high and dry.

peace,

-*-
charles

"Boomer" wrote in message
...

A tough day for a four-wheeler is doing without power steering, air
conditioning, and a case of beer. Tsk, tsk.

Like I said, ya just don't know! My ATV has neither, PS nor AC, and last I
checked it didn't come equipped with beer. Of course your drivin' habits
may vary.

Op