Torture?

Nah. A former military friend sent me this. Very intersting. His
name is Paul:

Â*
Great numbers of our own service members endured this treatment as part
of SERE ( survival, evasion, resistance and escape) training prior to
deployment to Viet Nam in the 60’s, myself included. This is obviously
not a pleasant experience, but in no way constitutes torture. The only
permanent effect it has on you, is you are damn sure you don’t want to
repeat.
Â*
Â*
Â*
Â*
Â*
Very enlightening, you have to watch this!!!!
Â*
This is awesome!Â* Watch it and understand why we have the best military
in the world.Â* There is no permanent damage done but the response is
immediate.Â* A much more humane and effective way to obtain critical
intelligence quickly without brutalizing the prisoner. Sure beats
electrocution, ripping off finger nails, acid showers,
whippings/beatings, cutting off limbs, removing eyes & tongues,
drilling out teeth, dislocating shoulders, burning and other ways the
muslims use.
Â*
Â*
Â*
Playboy.com journalist Mike Guy underwent waterboarding by a trained
member of the U.S. military in the site's new Lab Rat feature.
Â*
Guy bet that he could endure 15 seconds of the interrogation technique
used by the Bush administration on al Qaeda chief Khalid Sheikh
Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah..
Â*
Watch the results: http://content1. clipmarks. com/content/ 7E8ADC46-
F3DD-4D6F- B184-3A07CF501B7 C
Â*
Â*

On 2010-02-22 15:31:26 -0500, David LaCourse said:

Nah. A former military friend sent me this. Very intersting. His
name is Paul:

Â*
Great numbers of our own service members endured this treatment as part
of SERE ( survival, evasion, resistance and escape) training prior to
deployment to Viet Nam in the 60’s, myself included. This is
obviously not a pleasant experience, but in no way constitutes torture.
The only permanent effect it has on you, is you are damn sure you
don’t want to repeat.
Â*
Â*
Â*
Â*
Â*
Very enlightening, you have to watch this!!!!
Â*
This is awesome!Â* Watch it and understand why we have the best
military in the world.Â* There is no permanent damage done but the
response is immediate.Â* A much more humane and effective way to obtain
critical intelligence quickly without brutalizing the prisoner. Sure
beats electrocution, ripping off finger nails, acid showers,
whippings/beatings, cutting off limbs, removing eyes & tongues,
drilling out teeth, dislocating shoulders, burning and other ways the
muslims use.
Â*
Â*
Â*
Playboy.com journalist Mike Guy underwent waterboarding by a trained
member of the U.S. military in the site's new Lab Rat feature.
Â*
Guy bet that he could endure 15 seconds of the interrogation technique
used by the Bush administration on al Qaeda chief Khalid Sheikh
Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah..
Â*
Watch the results: http://content1. clipmarks. com/content/ 7E8ADC46-
F3DD-4D6F- B184-3A07CF501B7 C
Â*
Â*

What's with all the As? Here is the link:

http://content1.clipmarks.com/conten...4-3A07CF501B7C

Dave

After WWII the US convicted Japanese soldiers of war crimes and
sentenced them to very harsh penalties for waterboarding. It's torture.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On 2010-02-22 16:59:33 -0500, rw said:

After WWII the US convicted Japanese soldiers of war crimes and
sentenced them to very harsh penalties for waterboarding. It's torture.

Perhaps. But would YOU use it if someone kidnapped your child and
wouldn't tell you where she was? Would you use it to save one of
yours? There's no pain. No lasting physical impairment. No blood.
Our own soldiers experienced it to help them survive interregation.
Would you beat, hit, bite the man that knew where your child was being
kept? Simple question, Steve. Would you sacrifice your child or would
you waterboard the perp? Remember -- no pain, no blood, no loss of
limbs, teeth, ears, or eyes. Just a simple procedure that lasts less
that 15 seconds. Would you?

I sure as hell would. I'd use it to save YOU, never mind my own
children or loved ones. Hell, I'd use it to save any human being, and
Wolfgang.

Dave

David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-02-22 16:59:33 -0500, rw said:

After WWII the US convicted Japanese soldiers of war crimes and
sentenced them to very harsh penalties for waterboarding. It's torture.


Perhaps. But would YOU use it if someone kidnapped your child and
wouldn't tell you where she was? Would you use it to save one of
yours? There's no pain. No lasting physical impairment. No blood.
Our own soldiers experienced it to help them survive interregation.
Would you beat, hit, bite the man that knew where your child was being
kept? Simple question, Steve. Would you sacrifice your child or would
you waterboard the perp? Remember -- no pain, no blood, no loss of
limbs, teeth, ears, or eyes. Just a simple procedure that lasts less
that 15 seconds. Would you?

I sure as hell would. I'd use it to save YOU, never mind my own
children or loved ones. Hell, I'd use it to save any human being, and
Wolfgang.

Dave

That's an absurd argument. You could use it to justify ANYTHING, not
just waterboarding.

By the way, General Petaeus, Colin Powell, and John McCain agree with me
that waterboarding is torture and violates American values.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On 2010-02-22 17:52:17 -0500, rw said:

David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-02-22 16:59:33 -0500, rw said:

After WWII the US convicted Japanese soldiers of war crimes and
sentenced them to very harsh penalties for waterboarding. It's torture.


Perhaps. But would YOU use it if someone kidnapped your child and
wouldn't tell you where she was? Would you use it to save one of
yours? There's no pain. No lasting physical impairment. No blood.
Our own soldiers experienced it to help them survive interregation.
Would you beat, hit, bite the man that knew where your child was being
kept? Simple question, Steve. Would you sacrifice your child or would
you waterboard the perp? Remember -- no pain, no blood, no loss of
limbs, teeth, ears, or eyes. Just a simple procedure that lasts less
that 15 seconds. Would you?

I sure as hell would. I'd use it to save YOU, never mind my own
children or loved ones. Hell, I'd use it to save any human being, and
Wolfgang.

Dave

That's an absurd argument. You could use it to justify ANYTHING, not
just waterboarding.

By the way, General Petaeus, Colin Powell, and John McCain agree with
me that waterboarding is torture and violates American values.

I know who is for it and who is against it. I am neither endorsing nor
condemning it. The question is absurd, of course, but if you needed
information RIGHT NOW to save a loved one, would you use it? You
threatened to kick Fortenberry's ass when the jerk called your wife and
child some nasty names. That is a physical act leaving someone with
pain, and very possibly blood or even death. You would physically harm
someone over an insult but would not waterboard them to save a loved
one's life? That is not logical, Steve.

Dave

David LaCourse wrote:

I know who is for it and who is against it. I am neither endorsing nor
condemning it. The question is absurd, of course, but if you needed
information RIGHT NOW to save a loved one, would you use it? You
threatened to kick Fortenberry's ass when the jerk called your wife and
child some nasty names. That is a physical act leaving someone with
pain, and very possibly blood or even death. You would physically harm
someone over an insult but would not waterboard them to save a loved
one's life? That is not logical, Steve.

Actions that are appropriate for an extremely ****ed off person and an
institutional justice/military/intelligence system are two entirely
different things.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Feb 22, 5:26*pm, David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-02-22 17:52:17 -0500, rw said:





David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-02-22 16:59:33 -0500, rw said:

After WWII the US convicted Japanese soldiers of war crimes and
sentenced them to very harsh penalties for waterboarding. It's torture.

Perhaps. *But would YOU use it if someone kidnapped your child and
wouldn't tell you where she was? *Would you use it to save one of
yours? *There's no pain. *No lasting physical impairment. *No blood. *
Our own soldiers experienced it to help them survive interregation. *
Would you beat, hit, bite the man that knew where your child was being
kept? *Simple question, Steve. *Would you sacrifice your child or would
you waterboard the perp? *Remember -- no pain, no blood, no loss of
limbs, teeth, ears, or eyes. *Just a simple procedure that lasts less
that 15 seconds. *Would you?

I sure as hell would. *I'd use it to save YOU, never mind my own
children or loved ones. *Hell, I'd use it to save any human being, and
Wolfgang.

Dave

That's an absurd argument. You could use it to justify ANYTHING, not
just waterboarding.

By the way, General Petaeus, Colin Powell, and John McCain agree with
me that waterboarding is torture and violates American values.

I know who is for it and who is against it. *I am neither endorsing nor
condemning it. *The question is absurd, of course, but if you needed
information RIGHT NOW to save a loved one, would you use it? *You
threatened to kick Fortenberry's ass when the jerk called your wife and
child some nasty names. *That is a physical act leaving someone with
pain, and very possibly blood or even death. *You would physically harm
someone over an insult but would not waterboard them to save a loved
one's life? *That is not logical, Steve.

Quite true. The mayhem that ensued from that exchange will live long
in the memories of those who witnessed it.

g.
those of us who missed it, on the other hand.......

"rw" wrote in message
...
David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-02-22 16:59:33 -0500, rw said:

After WWII the US convicted Japanese soldiers of war crimes and
sentenced them to very harsh penalties for waterboarding. It's torture.


Perhaps. But would YOU use it if someone kidnapped your child and
wouldn't tell you where she was? Would you use it to save one of yours?
There's no pain. No lasting physical impairment. No blood. Our own
soldiers experienced it to help them survive interregation. Would you
beat, hit, bite the man that knew where your child was being kept?
Simple question, Steve. Would you sacrifice your child or would you
waterboard the perp? Remember -- no pain, no blood, no loss of limbs,
teeth, ears, or eyes. Just a simple procedure that lasts less that 15
seconds. Would you?

I sure as hell would. I'd use it to save YOU, never mind my own children
or loved ones. Hell, I'd use it to save any human being, and Wolfgang.

Dave

That's an absurd argument. You could use it to justify ANYTHING, not just
waterboarding.

By the way, General Petaeus, Colin Powell, and John McCain agree with me
that waterboarding is torture and violates American values.

This is absolutely a "no brainer" and by that I mean Davey has no brain much
less a moral compass, so hell, he'd waterboard his wife, to *attempt* to
make his point. Hey there's a thought Davey, why don't you waterboard your
wife, just to show her and everyone else how safe and torture friendly
waterboarding is for everyone!



What you will never understand and what rw was attempting to get across to
you is that waterboarding is *absolutely* torture and beneath the dignity of
decent human beings. It's not a matter of whether or not there is pain--is
mental anguish painful? can you state it is not without fear of being
wrong?, please cite your sources that say there is no lasting physical
impairment from repeated acts of waterboarding, is the presence of blood an
indicator of torture? Again, please site your source for this one.



If you are willing to accept torture as a relevant means of interrogation,
then you are no better than those you believe deserve torture. So, let's
assume for the sake of argument that the person you torture is the wrong
person? Is it still righteous to waterboard them--do the ends justify the
means?



I suppose it would be proper--in your mind, not mine--to waterboard a 5 year
old child, who might possibly know something about his father's
whereabouts--his father is a well know terrorist, BTW, and is suspected of
carrying an atomic bomb, in a briefcase, on an American air carrier--we just
don't know which airlines, but the kid might, right! So, we should torture
the child, right.



Funny, just this evening, there was a report of a man who was wrongly
arrested for a certain crime. You know what the give-a-way was. The actual
criminal was a white man, but law enforcement agents arrested a black man
for the crime and imprisoned him, until it was finally determined that they
were actually looking for a WHITE MAN! For Christ-sake, if a black man can
be mistaken for a white man, what make you think our top-notch intelligence
agencies will always have the correct terrorist suspect!



Virtually all professional interrogation specialists agree that torture will
gain you nothing more than what the subject will tell you, to end the
torture. Torture is a proven fallacy, if your aim is accurate intelligence
information. Oh, btw, waterbording is torture! Try it, you won't like it
anymore than any other tortured person has liked their waterboarding
experience.



If you condone torture, you are condoning the torture of American soldiers,
the very same soldiers, of whom you claim to be so proud!



Get your head out of your ass Davey, and at least use it as a hat rack.



Op --P.S., if your only reply is to ask me about the kids I don't have or to
deflect the idiocy of your contention, it will only prove that you really
are an idiot! Please, try to cite reliable sources to make your
argument--Rush L. and Shawn H. are not reliable sources. Once you provide
your sources, I will provide my souces--Oh yeah, my sources will include
military intelligence experts, medical specialists, FBI and CIA records,
sources you should be able to site to support your contentions, except they
don't--really, it's true, they do not support you position.

On 2010-02-22 19:36:05 -0500, "Mark Bowen" said:


"rw" wrote in message
...
David LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-02-22 16:59:33 -0500, rw said:

After WWII the US convicted Japanese soldiers of war crimes and
sentenced them to very harsh penalties for waterboarding. It's torture.


Perhaps. But would YOU use it if someone kidnapped your child and
wouldn't tell you where she was? Would you use it to save one of yours?
There's no pain. No lasting physical impairment. No blood. Our own
soldiers experienced it to help them survive interregation. Would you
beat, hit, bite the man that knew where your child was being kept?
Simple question, Steve. Would you sacrifice your child or would you
waterboard the perp? Remember -- no pain, no blood, no loss of limbs,
teeth, ears, or eyes. Just a simple procedure that lasts less that 15
seconds. Would you?

I sure as hell would. I'd use it to save YOU, never mind my own children
or loved ones. Hell, I'd use it to save any human being, and Wolfgang.

Dave

That's an absurd argument. You could use it to justify ANYTHING, not just
waterboarding.

By the way, General Petaeus, Colin Powell, and John McCain agree with me
that waterboarding is torture and violates American values.

This is absolutely a "no brainer" and by that I mean Davey has no brain much
less a moral compass, so hell, he'd waterboard his wife, to *attempt* to
make his point. Hey there's a thought Davey, why don't you waterboard your
wife, just to show her and everyone else how safe and torture friendly
waterboarding is for everyone!

You're silly.



What you will never understand and what rw was attempting to get across to
you is that waterboarding is *absolutely* torture and beneath the dignity of
decent human beings. It's not a matter of whether or not there is pain--is
mental anguish painful? can you state it is not without fear of being
wrong?, please cite your sources that say there is no lasting physical
impairment from repeated acts of waterboarding, is the presence of blood an
indicator of torture? Again, please site your source for this one.

Read where I said I am not endorsing nor condemning it. What, they
don't teach reading in North Cackleacky? Idiot.



If you are willing to accept torture as a relevant means of interrogation,
then you are no better than those you believe deserve torture. So, let's
assume for the sake of argument that the person you torture is the wrong
person? Is it still righteous to waterboard them--do the ends justify the
means?



I suppose it would be proper--in your mind, not mine--to waterboard a 5 year
old child, who might possibly know something about his father's
whereabouts--his father is a well know terrorist, BTW, and is suspected of
carrying an atomic bomb, in a briefcase, on an American air carrier--we just
don't know which airlines, but the kid might, right! So, we should torture
the child, right.

Again, you show exactly how silly you really are.



Funny, just this evening, there was a report of a man who was wrongly
arrested for a certain crime. You know what the give-a-way was. The actual
criminal was a white man, but law enforcement agents arrested a black man
for the crime and imprisoned him, until it was finally determined that they
were actually looking for a WHITE MAN! For Christ-sake, if a black man can
be mistaken for a white man, what make you think our top-notch intelligence
agencies will always have the correct terrorist suspect!
Happens all the time. And it will continue to happen. And, no, I
don't think it is fair.


Virtually all professional interrogation specialists agree that torture will
gain you nothing more than what the subject will tell you, to end the
torture. Torture is a proven fallacy, if your aim is accurate intelligence
information. Oh, btw, waterbording is torture! Try it, you won't like it
anymore than any other tortured person has liked their waterboarding
experience.



If you condone torture, you are condoning the torture of American soldiers,
the very same soldiers, of whom you claim to be so proud!

And proud of them I am. But, in every war since I was born, American
soldiers WERE physically tortured - the Germans, Japanese, North Korea,
North Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. Whether or not we waterboard or have
Gitmo is not relevent. As Steve stated, waterboarding has not been
done since 2003, but torture of Americans continues.



Get your head out of your ass Davey, and at least use it as a hat rack.

Well, I will, Mark, if you promise to get your head out of Wolfgangs ass.





Op --P.S., if your only reply is to ask me about the kids I don't have or to
deflect the idiocy of your contention, it will only prove that you really
are an idiot! Please, try to cite reliable sources to make your
argument--Rush L. and Shawn H. are not reliable sources. Once you provide
your sources, I will provide my souces--Oh yeah, my sources will include
military intelligence experts, medical specialists, FBI and CIA records,
sources you should be able to site to support your contentions, except they
don't--really, it's true, they do not support you position.

Sources for what argument. Read again, silly little boy, I am neither
condemning nor endorsing waterboarding. It was a civil conversation
that Steve and I and then Richard were having until you stuck your
silly looking face into something that obviously you don't understand.

Oh, and perhaps you can tell me, Mark, why your hero Mr. O, hasn't
closed Gitmo? Could it be that it is the proper place afterall to
detain pows? I'm giving even money that the trials will be there.

Davey, aka Moron, Idiot, Pig, etc. ( And you are arguing with a moron,
idiot, pig, baby killer, baby torturer, etc. Speaks highly of your
"supposed" intelect.) Now, go make some REAL money and pay your taxes,
sonny. I need a new MB.