Stuck Ferrule (female end) question

OK, imagine that you have a set of stuck ferrules, Your only tools
available are cold and hot water, specifically to pour over the
ferrules, as a pair, not to put on one side or the other. The
question: which will loosen the ferrules and why?

Some considerations: its pretty obvious that the male end will
contract in cold water (no jokes, please) so that part will definitely
loosen if given a cold water bath.

However, the female end is less clear. Think of a donut (as the female
end of a ferrule resembles a donut in cross-section): first instincts
may say to heat the female end to expand it, but when a donut expands,
the hole actually gets smaller. SO heating the female end may make the
ferrule tighter.

So what if we use cold water on the female end. If an entire donut
shrinks, the center hole gets smaller too. So cooling the female end
may make the ferrule tighter also. Hmm...

So which will cause the hole on the female end to become looser/
larger?

--riverman

On Jul 4, 11:41*am, riverman wrote:
OK, imagine that you have a set of stuck ferrules, Your only tools
available are cold and hot water, specifically to pour over the
ferrules, as a pair, not to put on one side or the other. The
question: which will loosen the ferrules and why?

Some considerations: its pretty obvious that the male end will
contract in cold water (no jokes, please) so that part will definitely
loosen if given a cold water bath.

However, the female end is less clear. Think of a donut (as the female
end of a ferrule resembles a donut in cross-section): first instincts
may say to heat the female end to expand it, but when a donut expands,
the hole actually gets smaller. SO heating the female end may make the
ferrule tighter.

So what if we use cold water on the female end. If an entire donut
shrinks, the center hole gets smaller too. So cooling the female end
may make the ferrule tighter also. Hmm...

So which will cause the hole on the female end to become looser/
larger?

--riverman

Heat them.

The female end (donut) expands from the radial center, not from the
torus diameter -- think heating a wagon wheel rim.

As the female end has a larger initial diameter, it will (assuming
same material) expand an equal percentage of a LARGER diameter, which,
in absolute terms is more than the male end expansion.

Can't guarantee anything, but that is the theory.

Also, try tapping lightly as it is heated.

Luck, and happy 4th

oz

On 7/4/10 10:41 AM, riverman wrote:

However, the female end is less clear. Think of a donut (as the female
end of a ferrule resembles a donut in cross-section): first instincts
may say to heat the female end to expand it, but when a donut expands,
the hole actually gets smaller. SO heating the female end may make the
ferrule tighter.

I'm afraid that you're wrong. Heating the female ferrule will cause the
hole to expand. So it's best to heat the female ferrule and cool the
male ferrule.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Jul 4, 12:02*pm, rw wrote:
On 7/4/10 10:41 AM, riverman wrote:



However, the female end is less clear. Think of a donut (as the female
end of a ferrule resembles a donut in cross-section): first instincts
may say to heat the female end to expand it, but when a donut expands,
the hole actually gets smaller. SO heating the female end may make the
ferrule tighter.

I'm afraid that you're wrong. Heating the female ferrule will cause the
hole to expand. So it's best to heat the female ferrule and cool the
male ferrule.

Hacksaw blade generates enough heat to separate the two.
Frank Reid
(always glad to help)

On 7/4/10 3:08 PM, Frank Reid © 2010 wrote:
On Jul 4, 12:02 pm, wrote:
On 7/4/10 10:41 AM, riverman wrote:



However, the female end is less clear. Think of a donut (as the female
end of a ferrule resembles a donut in cross-section): first instincts
may say to heat the female end to expand it, but when a donut expands,
the hole actually gets smaller. SO heating the female end may make the
ferrule tighter.

I'm afraid that you're wrong. Heating the female ferrule will cause the
hole to expand. So it's best to heat the female ferrule and cool the
male ferrule.

Hacksaw blade generates enough heat to separate the two.
Frank Reid
(always glad to help)


Frank, your style would be to use a Sawzall, full force, while wearing
shorts and flip flops.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Jul 4, 4:33*pm, rw wrote:
On 7/4/10 3:08 PM, Frank Reid © 2010 wrote:





On Jul 4, 12:02 pm, *wrote:
On 7/4/10 10:41 AM, riverman wrote:

However, the female end is less clear. Think of a donut (as the female
end of a ferrule resembles a donut in cross-section): first instincts
may say to heat the female end to expand it, but when a donut expands,
the hole actually gets smaller. SO heating the female end may make the
ferrule tighter.

I'm afraid that you're wrong. Heating the female ferrule will cause the
hole to expand. So it's best to heat the female ferrule and cool the
male ferrule.

Hacksaw blade generates enough heat to separate the two.
Frank Reid
(always glad to help)

Frank, your style would be to use a Sawzall, full force, while wearing
shorts and flip flops.

And without the guard whilst standing in water. Then again, life gets
kinda boring so you gotta heat things up.
Frank Reid

On Jul 4, 9:41*am, riverman wrote:
OK, imagine that you have a set of stuck ferrules, Your only tools
available are cold and hot water, specifically to pour over the
ferrules, as a pair, not to put on one side or the other. The
question: which will loosen the ferrules and why?

Some considerations: its pretty obvious that the male end will
contract in cold water (no jokes, please) so that part will definitely
loosen if given a cold water bath.

However, the female end is less clear. Think of a donut (as the female
end of a ferrule resembles a donut in cross-section): first instincts
may say to heat the female end to expand it, but when a donut expands,
the hole actually gets smaller. SO heating the female end may make the
ferrule tighter.

So what if we use cold water on the female end. If an entire donut
shrinks, the center hole gets smaller too. So cooling the female end
may make the ferrule tighter also. Hmm...

So which will cause the hole on the female end to become looser/
larger?

--riverman

Grasshopper....realize you are defeated. Seal the ends with super glue
making a one piece. Wait one year and they will come apart with
ease....worked for me..

John

On Jul 4, 1:02*pm, rw wrote:
On 7/4/10 10:41 AM, riverman wrote:



However, the female end is less clear. Think of a donut (as the female
end of a ferrule resembles a donut in cross-section): first instincts
may say to heat the female end to expand it, but when a donut expands,
the hole actually gets smaller. SO heating the female end may make the
ferrule tighter.

I'm afraid that you're wrong. Heating the female ferrule will cause the
hole to expand. So it's best to heat the female ferrule and cool the
male ferrule.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

What RW said. Heat the female ferrule. The wall section of the female
has less mass and will expand faster than the male section.

On Jul 4, 9:41*am, riverman wrote:
OK, imagine that you have a set of stuck ferrules, Your only tools
available are cold and hot water, specifically to pour over the
ferrules, as a pair, not to put on one side or the other. The
question: which will loosen the ferrules and why?

Some considerations: its pretty obvious that the male end will
contract in cold water (no jokes, please) so that part will definitely
loosen if given a cold water bath.

However, the female end is less clear. Think of a donut (as the female
end of a ferrule resembles a donut in cross-section): first instincts
may say to heat the female end to expand it, but when a donut expands,
the hole actually gets smaller. SO heating the female end may make the
ferrule tighter.

So what if we use cold water on the female end. If an entire donut
shrinks, the center hole gets smaller too. So cooling the female end
may make the ferrule tighter also. Hmm...

So which will cause the hole on the female end to become looser/
larger?

--riverman

Graphite has a low coefficient of thermal expansion. If you have
jamed the rod together itmay not be possible to loosen it by
differentially heating them. The male furrel may be expanded into
it's elastic range and heating won't expand it enough.
Brute force may be the only way, in which case the design of the grip
mechanism of both sections is critical.
OR you could drill a hole through the but of the rod into the but
section install a valve stem and pump it up.

On Jul 4, 9:14*pm, BJConner wrote:
On Jul 4, 9:41*am, riverman wrote:





OK, imagine that you have a set of stuck ferrules, Your only tools
available are cold and hot water, specifically to pour over the
ferrules, as a pair, not to put on one side or the other. The
question: which will loosen the ferrules and why?

Some considerations: its pretty obvious that the male end will
contract in cold water (no jokes, please) so that part will definitely
loosen if given a cold water bath.

However, the female end is less clear. Think of a donut (as the female
end of a ferrule resembles a donut in cross-section): first instincts
may say to heat the female end to expand it, but when a donut expands,
the hole actually gets smaller. SO heating the female end may make the
ferrule tighter.

So what if we use cold water on the female end. If an entire donut
shrinks, the center hole gets smaller too. So cooling the female end
may make the ferrule tighter also. Hmm...

So which will cause the hole on the female end to become looser/
larger?

--riverman

Graphite has a low coefficient of thermal expansion. *If you have
jamed the rod together itmay not be possible to loosen it by
differentially heating them. *The male furrel may be expanded into
it's elastic range and heating won't expand it enough.
Brute force may be the only way, in which case the design of the grip
mechanism of both sections is critical.
OR you could drill a hole through the but of the rod into the but
section install a valve stem and pump it up.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Better yet if you have access to the inside fill it with water and
freeze it. The expanding water will push it appart.