Palmering

When I tie Wooly Buggers, the hackle fibers inevitably end up either
vertical at best, or more commonly pointing forward. I've tried twisting
them as I wind them around to get them to lay back, and have tried tying
them on several different ways: with the stripped nub over the top of the
shaft, under it, parallel to it etc., and have experimented with how I
orient the curve of the hackle. I'm missing something, as I just cannot get
the palmered hackle to lay the right way; pointing backwards down the fly.
What's the trick?

--riverman

riverman When I tie Wooly Buggers, the hackle fibers inevitably end
riverman up either vertical at best, or more commonly pointing
riverman forward. ... What's the trick?

Hi Myron!

The experts will give you the correct answer soon, but I've always
solved this problem by using reverse palmering:

http://www.frontrangeanglers.com/new...ersehackle.htm

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

riverman When I tie Wooly Buggers, the hackle fibers inevitably end
riverman up either vertical at best, or more commonly pointing
riverman forward. ... What's the trick?

Hi Myron!

The experts will give you the correct answer soon, but I've always
solved this problem by using reverse palmering:

http://www.frontrangeanglers.com/new...ersehackle.htm

--
Jarmo Hurri

Hey Jarmo;
Yep, thats what I was leading myself into also. I think thats how MC showed
me to do it in Denmark, also, but I haven't tied any wooly buggers in a
while and forgot! I can see three distinct advantages to it:
1) the hackle lies back the way it's supposed to
2) since the longer hairs are up near the head, the shape of the fly is more
like a bait fish
3) the windings over the top lock down the palmered hackle so that it won't
unwind if some fish bites it once too often.

Seeing as how its not a floating fly, the extra trips up the shaft of the
fly with the thread don't cause any negative effect on the weight, either.

I think I might just reverse palmer and not even care about why my straight
palmers don't curl right.

--riverman

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:05:05 +0100, "riverman" wrote:

Hey Jarmo;
Yep, thats what I was leading myself into also. I think thats how MC showed
me to do it in Denmark, also, but I haven't tied any wooly buggers in a
while and forgot! I can see three distinct advantages to it:
1) the hackle lies back the way it's supposed to
2) since the longer hairs are up near the head, the shape of the fly is more
like a bait fish
3) the windings over the top lock down the palmered hackle so that it won't
unwind if some fish bites it once too often.

Seeing as how its not a floating fly, the extra trips up the shaft of the
fly with the thread don't cause any negative effect on the weight, either.

I think I might just reverse palmer and not even care about why my straight
palmers don't curl right.

I palmer my wooly buggers that way for durability. As to 2), if you don't
reverse palmer just tie the tip of the hackle in at the hook bend instead of
the butt.
--
Charlie...

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:05:05 +0100, "riverman" wrote:

Hey Jarmo;
Yep, thats what I was leading myself into also. I think thats how MC
showed
me to do it in Denmark, also, but I haven't tied any wooly buggers in a
while and forgot! I can see three distinct advantages to it:
1) the hackle lies back the way it's supposed to
2) since the longer hairs are up near the head, the shape of the fly is
more
like a bait fish
3) the windings over the top lock down the palmered hackle so that it
won't
unwind if some fish bites it once too often.

Seeing as how its not a floating fly, the extra trips up the shaft of the
fly with the thread don't cause any negative effect on the weight, either.

I think I might just reverse palmer and not even care about why my
straight
palmers don't curl right.

I palmer my wooly buggers that way for durability. As to 2), if you don't
reverse palmer just tie the tip of the hackle in at the hook bend instead
of
the butt.

Yes, thats the correct method, but I keep breaking them that way. I hate
that...gotta get a lighter touch.

On another track...I just tied up my first #12 Red Humpy. Didn't have any
antron for the body, so I sliced up some red marabou and dubbed with
it....that part came out pretty nice. However, getting the 'wings' to sit up
in a nice tight little package was very hard, as they seem to want to spin
out into a fuzzball. And judging the length of deerhair to tie on so that it
makes the wing cases and wings the right length is nutso. My first humpy
looks more like a big grey burdock with a hangover.

--riverman

riverman wrote:

Yes, thats the correct method, but I keep breaking them that way. I hate
that...gotta get a lighter touch.

On another track...I just tied up my first #12 Red Humpy. Didn't have any
antron for the body, so I sliced up some red marabou and dubbed with
it....that part came out pretty nice. However, getting the 'wings' to sit up
in a nice tight little package was very hard, as they seem to want to spin
out into a fuzzball. And judging the length of deerhair to tie on so that it
makes the wing cases and wings the right length is nutso. My first humpy
looks more like a big grey burdock with a hangover.

--riverman



That's not bad at all for a first humpy. The humpy is a notorious
difficult fly to tie right, the choice and amount of the materials is
quite critical. I tied a couple in a tying class once, and decided I
didn't really need them :-).

--
Herman

riverman wrote:

Yes, thats the correct method, but I keep breaking them that way. I hate
that...gotta get a lighter touch.

FWIW, I tie the hackle in by the tip as well. I tie it slightly
forward of the tail and take a wrap or two of the chenille behind it
before wrappping the chenille forward.

Another thing you could try would be to strip the hackles off one
side of the feather and tie it in that way. It makes for a less-dense
hackle and it's much easier to control that way, IMHO.

On another track...I just tied up my first #12 Red Humpy. Didn't have any
antron for the body, so I sliced up some red marabou and dubbed with
it....that part came out pretty nice. However, getting the 'wings' to sit up
in a nice tight little package was very hard, as they seem to want to spin
out into a fuzzball. And judging the length of deerhair to tie on so that it
makes the wing cases and wings the right length is nutso. My first humpy
looks more like a big grey burdock with a hangover.

Humpies are a true PIA to tie. But, Harry Mason has the tips you
need to know for getting the tail/shellback/wing proportions right:
http://www.troutflies.com/tutorials/humpy/


Chuck Vance (whose humpies look like hairy Quasimodos)

riverman wrote:

Yes, thats the correct method, but I keep breaking them that way. I hate
that...gotta get a lighter touch.

On another track...I just tied up my first #12 Red Humpy. Didn't have any
antron for the body, so I sliced up some red marabou and dubbed with
it....that part came out pretty nice. However, getting the 'wings' to sit up
in a nice tight little package was very hard, as they seem to want to spin
out into a fuzzball. And judging the length of deerhair to tie on so that it
makes the wing cases and wings the right length is nutso. My first humpy
looks more like a big grey burdock with a hangover.

--riverman



That's not bad at all for a first humpy. The humpy is a notorious
difficult fly to tie right, the choice and amount of the materials is
quite critical. I tied a couple in a tying class once, and decided I
didn't really need them :-).

--
Herman

riverman wrote:

Yes, thats the correct method, but I keep breaking them that way. I hate
that...gotta get a lighter touch.

FWIW, I tie the hackle in by the tip as well. I tie it slightly
forward of the tail and take a wrap or two of the chenille behind it
before wrappping the chenille forward.

Another thing you could try would be to strip the hackles off one
side of the feather and tie it in that way. It makes for a less-dense
hackle and it's much easier to control that way, IMHO.

On another track...I just tied up my first #12 Red Humpy. Didn't have any
antron for the body, so I sliced up some red marabou and dubbed with
it....that part came out pretty nice. However, getting the 'wings' to sit up
in a nice tight little package was very hard, as they seem to want to spin
out into a fuzzball. And judging the length of deerhair to tie on so that it
makes the wing cases and wings the right length is nutso. My first humpy
looks more like a big grey burdock with a hangover.

Humpies are a true PIA to tie. But, Harry Mason has the tips you
need to know for getting the tail/shellback/wing proportions right:
http://www.troutflies.com/tutorials/humpy/


Chuck Vance (whose humpies look like hairy Quasimodos)

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 13:05:05 +0100, "riverman" wrote:

Hey Jarmo;
Yep, thats what I was leading myself into also. I think thats how MC
showed
me to do it in Denmark, also, but I haven't tied any wooly buggers in a
while and forgot! I can see three distinct advantages to it:
1) the hackle lies back the way it's supposed to
2) since the longer hairs are up near the head, the shape of the fly is
more
like a bait fish
3) the windings over the top lock down the palmered hackle so that it
won't
unwind if some fish bites it once too often.

Seeing as how its not a floating fly, the extra trips up the shaft of the
fly with the thread don't cause any negative effect on the weight, either.

I think I might just reverse palmer and not even care about why my
straight
palmers don't curl right.

I palmer my wooly buggers that way for durability. As to 2), if you don't
reverse palmer just tie the tip of the hackle in at the hook bend instead
of
the butt.

Yes, thats the correct method, but I keep breaking them that way. I hate
that...gotta get a lighter touch.

On another track...I just tied up my first #12 Red Humpy. Didn't have any
antron for the body, so I sliced up some red marabou and dubbed with
it....that part came out pretty nice. However, getting the 'wings' to sit up
in a nice tight little package was very hard, as they seem to want to spin
out into a fuzzball. And judging the length of deerhair to tie on so that it
makes the wing cases and wings the right length is nutso. My first humpy
looks more like a big grey burdock with a hangover.

--riverman