Truck Fuel economy (OT from other thread)

Is there any chance that the auto manufactures 'detune' their cars for the
US market to lower fuel economy?? JR was commenting on not being able to get
a truck with better than 16 mpg around town, and I remembered my Toyota
4-Runner getting in the mid 20s at best. But I also remember my Nissan
Terrano (gas engine) I had in Latvia doing MUCH better than that, in fact, a
quick website shows that a Nissan Terrano II (4-wd, diesel) gets about 32
mpg, which is in the ballpark of what I remember my truck (imported from
Germany) getting! The internet specs I found are from the UK.
http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/niss...echo=302179310

I know that the US has emissions standards, but are we certain that this is
all that is affecting our mileages? Most countries I know about (UK, for
certain) are paying about $4 a gallon for fuel, so they are finding all
sorts of ways to improve mileage.

--riverman
(thinking of importing a vehicle...)

Without doing any research, do you see any correlation between towing
capacity and fuel economy?

john

"riverman" wrote in message
...
Is there any chance that the auto manufactures 'detune' their cars for the
US market to lower fuel economy?? JR was commenting on not being able to
get
a truck with better than 16 mpg around town, and I remembered my Toyota
4-Runner getting in the mid 20s at best. But I also remember my Nissan
Terrano (gas engine) I had in Latvia doing MUCH better than that, in fact,
a
quick website shows that a Nissan Terrano II (4-wd, diesel) gets about 32
mpg, which is in the ballpark of what I remember my truck (imported from
Germany) getting! The internet specs I found are from the UK.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/niss...echo=302179310

I know that the US has emissions standards, but are we certain that this
is
all that is affecting our mileages? Most countries I know about (UK, for
certain) are paying about $4 a gallon for fuel, so they are finding all
sorts of ways to improve mileage.

--riverman
(thinking of importing a vehicle...)

"riverman" wrote in message
...
Is there any chance that the auto manufactures 'detune' their cars for
the
US market to lower fuel economy?? JR was commenting on not being able to
get
a truck with better than 16 mpg around town, and I remembered my Toyota
4-Runner getting in the mid 20s at best. But I also remember my Nissan
Terrano (gas engine) I had in Latvia doing MUCH better than that, in
fact,
a
quick website shows that a Nissan Terrano II (4-wd, diesel) gets about 32
mpg, which is in the ballpark of what I remember my truck (imported from
Germany) getting! The internet specs I found are from the UK.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/niss...echo=302179310

I know that the US has emissions standards, but are we certain that this
is
all that is affecting our mileages? Most countries I know about (UK, for
certain) are paying about $4 a gallon for fuel, so they are finding all
sorts of ways to improve mileage.

--riverman
(thinking of importing a vehicle...)


"asadi...." wrote in message
.net...
Without doing any research, do you see any correlation between towing
capacity and fuel economy?

john



Hmm, off the top of my head, I'd say that the vehicles with higher towing
capacity would almost certainly have lower fuel economy. Heavier frame,
larger engine, lower gearing. Why, are you thinking that maybe US vehicles
are designed more often to be set up for towing?

I did some more research on the Nissan Pathfinder and the Nissan Terrano. I
already knew that they were the same vehicle, but strangely enough you
cannot get the 4-cylinder version in the US. You can get the V8 model on
this side of the pond ('overseas' to all you residents of the United States
of Canada), but its the 4-cylinder model that gets in excess of 30 mpg. Why
won't they sell the more efficient model in the US? Not everyone wants to
tow things around.

--riverman

In article , riverman
wrote:



Hmm, off the top of my head, I'd say that the vehicles with higher towing
capacity would almost certainly have lower fuel economy. Heavier frame,
larger engine, lower gearing. Why, are you thinking that maybe US vehicles
are designed more often to be set up for towing?

I did some more research on the Nissan Pathfinder and the Nissan Terrano. I
already knew that they were the same vehicle, but strangely enough you
cannot get the 4-cylinder version in the US. You can get the V8 model on
this side of the pond ('overseas' to all you residents of the United States
of Canada), but its the 4-cylinder model that gets in excess of 30 mpg. Why
won't they sell the more efficient model in the US? Not everyone wants to
tow things around.

--riverman

I suspect for much the same reason that a manual transmission is not
available on the new Ford F-150. It's not worth the engineering effort
for the sales that it would bring. In the case of the 4 cyl that would
be more economical Toyota says go buy the _____ whatever their small
SUV or wagon is. The engineering is not simply making it fit but
passing emissions, crash testing, training mechanics to work on it,
establishing parts supply lines and such. Car companies work on some
damn narrow margins and if it's not profitable they won't do it. Well,
maybe British car companies would which explains why you don't see many
Rover dealers over here anymore.

As far as the diesels go there are some pretty strict limits on
importation due to emissions (yea pick your poison, SO emission or
particulates) but I think once low sulfur diesel is available in the US
(mid 2006) we might see a bunch more TDI like vehicles. It's not just
a matter of the fuel but the better fuel will allow for better
emissions equipment to be installed. Current emissions tests require
that they be done using the fuel available and with that current
diesels don't generally pass the NOS test.


Allen

"Allen Epps" wrote in message
...
In article , riverman
wrote:



Hmm, off the top of my head, I'd say that the vehicles with higher towing
capacity would almost certainly have lower fuel economy. Heavier frame,
larger engine, lower gearing. Why, are you thinking that maybe US
vehicles
are designed more often to be set up for towing?

I did some more research on the Nissan Pathfinder and the Nissan Terrano.
I
already knew that they were the same vehicle, but strangely enough you
cannot get the 4-cylinder version in the US. You can get the V8 model
on
this side of the pond ('overseas' to all you residents of the United
States
of Canada), but its the 4-cylinder model that gets in excess of 30 mpg.
Why
won't they sell the more efficient model in the US? Not everyone wants to
tow things around.

--riverman

I suspect for much the same reason that a manual transmission is not
available on the new Ford F-150. It's not worth the engineering effort
for the sales that it would bring. In the case of the 4 cyl that would
be more economical Toyota says go buy the _____ whatever their small
SUV or wagon is. The engineering is not simply making it fit but
passing emissions, crash testing, training mechanics to work on it,
establishing parts supply lines and such. Car companies work on some
damn narrow margins and if it's not profitable they won't do it. Well,
maybe British car companies would which explains why you don't see many
Rover dealers over here anymore.


Hmm, possibly, but these cars (4 cylinder 4WD Terranos) already exist. The
engineering is done, they are manufactured, parts are available, and they
are being driven. Do manufacturers make different cars entirely for the US
market? Besides engine size, will a V8 Pathfinder from the US have other
differences from one in the UK, stuff that will require additional
engineering, etc.

I have to wonder why there isn't a demand for high economy SUVs. They are
out there.

--riverman
(who just doesn't get it...)

"riverman" wrote:
I have to wonder why there isn't a demand for high economy SUVs. They
are
out there.

Had one, hated it. About four years ago, with the best of intentions, I
traded my old K5 Blazer for a Honda CRV (25ish MPG). The thing was frightful
to drive on ANY highway grade; if I got stuck behind a big rig doing 40 up a
grade, I dared not try to pass unless there was at least a 200-300 yard gap
in the left lane. I had to keep the accelerator floored (revving it to about
5800 rpm) to keep it up to 55mph on many grades posted at 75mph. I hated
being passed by sand and gravel trucks; interstate U-Haul rentals full of
migrants seemed like sports cars in comparison. Not only was it slow, it was
also unbearably noisy at highway speeds. I kept that awful pos for just over
a year, and I only kept it that long in hope that it just needed to be
"broken in".

"riverman" wrote:
I have to wonder why there isn't a demand for high economy SUVs. They
are
out there.

Had one, hated it. About four years ago, with the best of intentions, I
traded my old K5 Blazer for a Honda CRV (25ish MPG). The thing was frightful
to drive on ANY highway grade; if I got stuck behind a big rig doing 40 up a
grade, I dared not try to pass unless there was at least a 200-300 yard gap
in the left lane. I had to keep the accelerator floored (revving it to about
5800 rpm) to keep it up to 55mph on many grades posted at 75mph. I hated
being passed by sand and gravel trucks; interstate U-Haul rentals full of
migrants seemed like sports cars in comparison. Not only was it slow, it was
also unbearably noisy at highway speeds. I kept that awful pos for just over
a year, and I only kept it that long in hope that it just needed to be
"broken in".

Allen Epps wrote in message . ..
In article , riverman
wrote:



Hmm, off the top of my head, I'd say that the vehicles with higher towing
capacity would almost certainly have lower fuel economy. Heavier frame,
larger engine, lower gearing. Why, are you thinking that maybe US vehicles
are designed more often to be set up for towing?

I did some more research on the Nissan Pathfinder and the Nissan Terrano. I
already knew that they were the same vehicle, but strangely enough you
cannot get the 4-cylinder version in the US. You can get the V8 model on
this side of the pond ('overseas' to all you residents of the United States
of Canada), but its the 4-cylinder model that gets in excess of 30 mpg. Why
won't they sell the more efficient model in the US? Not everyone wants to
tow things around.

--riverman

I suspect for much the same reason that a manual transmission is not
available on the new Ford F-150. It's not worth the engineering effort
for the sales that it would bring. In the case of the 4 cyl that would
be more economical Toyota says go buy the _____ whatever their small
SUV or wagon is. The engineering is not simply making it fit but
passing emissions, crash testing, training mechanics to work on it,
establishing parts supply lines and such. Car companies work on some
damn narrow margins and if it's not profitable they won't do it. Well,
maybe British car companies would which explains why you don't see many
Rover dealers over here anymore.

As far as the diesels go there are some pretty strict limits on
importation due to emissions (yea pick your poison, SO emission or
particulates) but I think once low sulfur diesel is available in the US
(mid 2006) we might see a bunch more TDI like vehicles. It's not just
a matter of the fuel but the better fuel will allow for better
emissions equipment to be installed. Current emissions tests require
that they be done using the fuel available and with that current
diesels don't generally pass the NOS test.


Allen



Forget about what will tow a trailer. Worry about what will STOP a trailer.

Lou T

A vehicle that slow would get you run over as try to enter the freeway around
here.

Big Dale

"Allen Epps" wrote in message
...
In article , riverman
wrote:



Hmm, off the top of my head, I'd say that the vehicles with higher towing
capacity would almost certainly have lower fuel economy. Heavier frame,
larger engine, lower gearing. Why, are you thinking that maybe US
vehicles
are designed more often to be set up for towing?

I did some more research on the Nissan Pathfinder and the Nissan Terrano.
I
already knew that they were the same vehicle, but strangely enough you
cannot get the 4-cylinder version in the US. You can get the V8 model
on
this side of the pond ('overseas' to all you residents of the United
States
of Canada), but its the 4-cylinder model that gets in excess of 30 mpg.
Why
won't they sell the more efficient model in the US? Not everyone wants to
tow things around.

--riverman

I suspect for much the same reason that a manual transmission is not
available on the new Ford F-150. It's not worth the engineering effort
for the sales that it would bring. In the case of the 4 cyl that would
be more economical Toyota says go buy the _____ whatever their small
SUV or wagon is. The engineering is not simply making it fit but
passing emissions, crash testing, training mechanics to work on it,
establishing parts supply lines and such. Car companies work on some
damn narrow margins and if it's not profitable they won't do it. Well,
maybe British car companies would which explains why you don't see many
Rover dealers over here anymore.


Hmm, possibly, but these cars (4 cylinder 4WD Terranos) already exist. The
engineering is done, they are manufactured, parts are available, and they
are being driven. Do manufacturers make different cars entirely for the US
market? Besides engine size, will a V8 Pathfinder from the US have other
differences from one in the UK, stuff that will require additional
engineering, etc.

I have to wonder why there isn't a demand for high economy SUVs. They are
out there.

--riverman
(who just doesn't get it...)