False casting problem

I have a persistent casting problem: it's very difficult for me to
false cast so that the loop would be vertical (that is, keeping the
rod completely vertical throughout the cast). If I try to do this, the
fly or the line will hit the rod (or worse, my head when I try this
with a short 6'6" rod).

Often this is not a big problem since tilting the rod always avoids
the collision. However, I'd like to use a vertical loop for close-up
precision work.

I've got a couple of books on casting, but I really haven't found a
solution to my problem from these. I know this is a difficult question
since few of you have seen me cast. But I was wondering if you could
still have suggestions as to why this happens. If it's of any help, I
can tell you I don't have other major problems like tailing loops or
such.

Mike?

--
Jarmo Hurri

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Sorry, but if the line is hitting your rod, you have a tailing loop. If th
line is not above the tip of the rod, it is tailing.
If you are casting a lot of line, 40' plus, it is difficult to keep the line
above the tip of the rod. Therfore most people will advise you to tilt the
cast, at least slightly. Try making a shorter stroke ( eleven to 1) to keep
the line higher, changing directions a bit earlier, and casting harder; not
something you may want to do for close in casting. The line will try to
follow the tip of the rod if you give it a chance. When you make your hard
stop, the rod should bend and deflect under the rod.

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"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

I have a persistent casting problem: it's very difficult for me to
false cast so that the loop would be vertical (that is, keeping the
rod completely vertical throughout the cast). If I try to do this, the
fly or the line will hit the rod (or worse, my head when I try this
with a short 6'6" rod).

Often this is not a big problem since tilting the rod always avoids
the collision. However, I'd like to use a vertical loop for close-up
precision work.

I've got a couple of books on casting, but I really haven't found a
solution to my problem from these. I know this is a difficult question
since few of you have seen me cast. But I was wondering if you could
still have suggestions as to why this happens. If it's of any help, I
can tell you I don't have other major problems like tailing loops or
such.

Mike?

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

"jackk" wrote in message
...
Sorry, but if the line is hitting your rod, you have a tailing loop.

(snip)

wtf is this? someone on r.o.f.f giving casting advice? this place is going
to hell in a peach basket.

wayno (i blame it on cabin fever)

jackk wrote:
Sorry, but if the line is hitting your rod, you have a tailing loop. If th
line is not above the tip of the rod, it is tailing.
If you are casting a lot of line, 40' plus, it is difficult to keep the line
above the tip of the rod. Therfore most people will advise you to tilt the
cast, at least slightly. Try making a shorter stroke ( eleven to 1) to keep
the line higher, changing directions a bit earlier, and casting harder; not
something you may want to do for close in casting. The line will try to
follow the tip of the rod if you give it a chance. When you make your hard
stop, the rod should bend and deflect under the rod.


The key to avoiding tailing loops is to modify your casting motion so
that the rod tip moves in a straight line (as nearly as possible). I
used to be plagued by tailing loops and the resultant "wind" knots until
I heard this tip and started paying attention to it.

I usually cast with my rod slightly out of the vertical plane, but for
very precise casting it is helpful to keep the rod in the vertical plane.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

Jack Sorry, but if the line is hitting your rod, you have a tailing
Jack loop. If th line is not above the tip of the rod, it is
Jack tailing.

That's what I thought at one point too, but I don't think that this is
necessarily true. Think about the pendulum / underhand cast, for
example: there the line would *definitely* hit the rod if the cast
would be done vertically, but you can do it with or without tailing
loops.

http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/tunderhand.shtml

Jack If you are casting a lot of line, 40' plus, it is difficult to
Jack keep the line above the tip of the rod.

Why? If the line would drop below the tip of the rod, then it would
hit the rod, right? Referring to your comment above, would this mean
that with 40' plus of line, you tend to create tailing loops? If not,
then why is it difficult to keep 40' plus of line above the rod tip?
I'm not being a smartass here, I'm just trying to explore the problem.

--
Jarmo Hurri

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or just use .

I did not say that the line would always hit the rod if the line was
traveling below the tip of the rod. I said that if the line is hitting the
rod, You have a tailing loop.(or I meant't to say that) I may be wrong but
I think that the definition of a tailing loop is that the line is moving
below the tip of the rod. A tailing loop will only hit the rod when the
cast is near veritcal. I have noticed a lot of people practising long
distance casting with a long line, and the tip of the line never gets much
more than 3 or 4 feet above the ground. If the cast is tilted you will
probably not have a problem of wind knots, etc. But that does not make it
good form

--


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"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

Jack Sorry, but if the line is hitting your rod, you have a tailing
Jack loop. If th line is not above the tip of the rod, it is
Jack tailing.

That's what I thought at one point too, but I don't think that this is
necessarily true. Think about the pendulum / underhand cast, for
example: there the line would *definitely* hit the rod if the cast
would be done vertically, but you can do it with or without tailing
loops.

http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/tunderhand.shtml

Jack If you are casting a lot of line, 40' plus, it is difficult to
Jack keep the line above the tip of the rod.

Why? If the line would drop below the tip of the rod, then it would
hit the rod, right? Referring to your comment above, would this mean
that with 40' plus of line, you tend to create tailing loops? If not,
then why is it difficult to keep 40' plus of line above the rod tip?
I'm not being a smartass here, I'm just trying to explore the problem.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

Jack I have noticed a lot of people practising long distance casting
Jack with a long line, and the tip of the line never gets much more
Jack than 3 or 4 feet above the ground. If the cast is tilted you
Jack will probably not have a problem of wind knots, etc. But that
Jack does not make it good form

True, so very true. And good form and beauty is what I'm also after
here (that's a serious comment, not irony).

Merry christmas!

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

Jack I have noticed a lot of people practising long distance casting
Jack with a long line, and the tip of the line never gets much more
Jack than 3 or 4 feet above the ground. If the cast is tilted you
Jack will probably not have a problem of wind knots, etc. But that
Jack does not make it good form

True, so very true. And good form and beauty is what I'm also after
here (that's a serious comment, not irony).

Merry christmas!

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

Hi All,

If you can already cast 60 feet with a fly rod you don't need to read this,
thanks.


There are two distinct groups of fly fishers:

First Group:

The ones that somehow figured out how to actually fly cast pretty well. This
group is larger than ever before. Some of these are people that find this
physical stuff very easy or they got some good help and practiced or they
were just persistent and learned on their own over time.

Second Group:

Then we have the group who fly fish but have never really leaned how to fly
cast well. These are people who are more physically challenged (I am in this
group) and that have not had any help/instruction. Some just never got any
help to know what they are suppose to be doing. Some honestly just have not
had the time to devote to fly casting but like to get out a few time a year.
Some fish in situations where they do not have to get very proficient to
catch fish. Some troll in float tubes so casting is not that important to
them.

I think I was flailing away for about 10 years before I could cast very well
at all. Mostly because in the '60s I could not find any help and outfit was
pretty sad.

Another issue is that some have outfits that don't perform well. This
doesn't mean they have to spend a lot of money to get something that cast
well, it just has to be the right combination of pieces; the right rod and
right size fly line.

The biggest complaint I hear from our guides(all over the world) is that
many of their customers don't cast well when they get them. Many guides have
to stop fishing and now teach fly casting so they can hopefully catch some
fish that day. They tell me that it would be much better if the customer
would spend the time to learn some casting so the fishing could be more
productive.

We have other issues where we get people on out hosted trips that want to go
to the tropical flats and have good fishing but they have not spent the time
to learn to fly cast first. It makes the trip less successful and then there
goes everyone reputation; fishing guides, fishing lodge, eco-system of
Belize, integrity of my fly shop, etc.when the real problem is just simply
fly casting. We have learned now to be sure to get people prepared for the
casting before they go on a trip.

After you learn to fly cast well, the fishing is easier and it is all more
rewarding. There are books and videos/DVDs on fly casting. I think a lesson
on the water with a good instructor is hard to beat though. First have
someone check out your outfit to be sure it does work well.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

Jack Sorry, but if the line is hitting your rod, you have a tailing
Jack loop. If th line is not above the tip of the rod, it is
Jack tailing.

That's what I thought at one point too, but I don't think that this is
necessarily true. Think about the pendulum / underhand cast, for
example: there the line would *definitely* hit the rod if the cast
would be done vertically, but you can do it with or without tailing
loops.

http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/tunderhand.shtml

Jack If you are casting a lot of line, 40' plus, it is difficult to
Jack keep the line above the tip of the rod.

Why? If the line would drop below the tip of the rod, then it would
hit the rod, right? Referring to your comment above, would this mean
that with 40' plus of line, you tend to create tailing loops? If not,
then why is it difficult to keep 40' plus of line above the rod tip?
I'm not being a smartass here, I'm just trying to explore the problem.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .

Hi All,

If you can already cast 60 feet with a fly rod you don't need to read this,
thanks.


There are two distinct groups of fly fishers:

First Group:

The ones that somehow figured out how to actually fly cast pretty well. This
group is larger than ever before. Some of these are people that find this
physical stuff very easy or they got some good help and practiced or they
were just persistent and learned on their own over time.

Second Group:

Then we have the group who fly fish but have never really leaned how to fly
cast well. These are people who are more physically challenged (I am in this
group) and that have not had any help/instruction. Some just never got any
help to know what they are suppose to be doing. Some honestly just have not
had the time to devote to fly casting but like to get out a few time a year.
Some fish in situations where they do not have to get very proficient to
catch fish. Some troll in float tubes so casting is not that important to
them.

I think I was flailing away for about 10 years before I could cast very well
at all. Mostly because in the '60s I could not find any help and outfit was
pretty sad.

Another issue is that some have outfits that don't perform well. This
doesn't mean they have to spend a lot of money to get something that cast
well, it just has to be the right combination of pieces; the right rod and
right size fly line.

The biggest complaint I hear from our guides(all over the world) is that
many of their customers don't cast well when they get them. Many guides have
to stop fishing and now teach fly casting so they can hopefully catch some
fish that day. They tell me that it would be much better if the customer
would spend the time to learn some casting so the fishing could be more
productive.

We have other issues where we get people on out hosted trips that want to go
to the tropical flats and have good fishing but they have not spent the time
to learn to fly cast first. It makes the trip less successful and then there
goes everyone reputation; fishing guides, fishing lodge, eco-system of
Belize, integrity of my fly shop, etc.when the real problem is just simply
fly casting. We have learned now to be sure to get people prepared for the
casting before they go on a trip.

After you learn to fly cast well, the fishing is easier and it is all more
rewarding. There are books and videos/DVDs on fly casting. I think a lesson
on the water with a good instructor is hard to beat though. First have
someone check out your outfit to be sure it does work well.

--
Bill Kiene

Kiene's Fly Shop
Sacramento, CA, USA

Web site: www.kiene.com


"Jarmo Hurri" wrote in message
...

Jack Sorry, but if the line is hitting your rod, you have a tailing
Jack loop. If th line is not above the tip of the rod, it is
Jack tailing.

That's what I thought at one point too, but I don't think that this is
necessarily true. Think about the pendulum / underhand cast, for
example: there the line would *definitely* hit the rod if the cast
would be done vertically, but you can do it with or without tailing
loops.

http://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/tunderhand.shtml

Jack If you are casting a lot of line, 40' plus, it is difficult to
Jack keep the line above the tip of the rod.

Why? If the line would drop below the tip of the rod, then it would
hit the rod, right? Referring to your comment above, would this mean
that with 40' plus of line, you tend to create tailing loops? If not,
then why is it difficult to keep 40' plus of line above the rod tip?
I'm not being a smartass here, I'm just trying to explore the problem.

--
Jarmo Hurri

Commercial email countermeasures included in header email
address. Remove all garbage from header email address when replying,
or just use .