Foam Crayfish question

http://montana-riverboats.com/Pages/...nd_shrimp.html

The above is my favorite Crayfish pattern. I caught my biggest brown
in long time on this fly, on the lower Madison, late last fall.

After you catch the first fish, if you hold the fly underneath your net
and squeeze-pump the foam body of the fly a few times, as the
scent-laden fish slime runs down off the net.....then the fly suddenly
becomes noticably, substantially more effective.

Is that "unethical?" Why?

Am I trolling this question? Maybe. But it is an interesting
question. Ethical/not ethical depends on which and whose rules
you play by, it seems to me. Are there any moral absolutes in
the fishing business?

I've published quite a few fly tying pieces in glossy magazines over the
years. But I know I could never get anything about
scent-laden foam Crayfish flies published. Even though they're hot as
a fish catching pistol. Why not is part of my original question.
Why are the concepts of odor and wiggling, lure-like flies
so totally off limits in polite fly fishing society?

--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

sandy wrote:
snip
Why are the concepts of odor and wiggling, lure-like flies
so totally off limits in polite fly fishing society?

It is harder to fool a fish with fur and feathers than
with scent and lures. That's the essence of it. On a
continuum with bleach and TNT on one end and fur and
feathers on the other we all choose just how badly we
want to catch a fish.

--
Ken Fortenberry

RE we all choose just how badly we
want to catch a fish.

So you're saying it's a matter of simple choice,
rather than 'ethics' in any way?
Ken likes to fish with anything made out of fur
and feathers, as long as it doesn't smell
and it doesn't wiggle. What else am I missing?

Joe Blow likes to fish with Joe's Hoppers,
David likes the a Parachute Adams
and Sandy likes the Foam Crayfish.
It's all a matter of personal choice,
like choosing a shirt in the morning?

Or is it 'unethical' to fish with wigglers,
and or scented crayfish?


--
/* Vinny Marinara Sauce --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

sandy wrote:
RE we all choose just how badly we
want to catch a fish.

So you're saying it's a matter of simple choice,
rather than 'ethics' in any way?

Have to agree. Any serious ethical question would be along the lines of
"is it OK to harass wildlife for no reason other than 'fun'?", etc. Which
type of lure one chooses to do it is a simple personal preference, not a
matter of ethics.

JR

"JR" wrote in message ...
sandy wrote:
RE we all choose just how badly we
want to catch a fish.

So you're saying it's a matter of simple choice,
rather than 'ethics' in any way?

Have to agree. Any serious ethical question would be along the lines of
"is it OK to harass wildlife for no reason other than 'fun'?", etc. Which
type of lure one chooses to do it is a simple personal preference, not a
matter of ethics.

Given a limited number of options, choosing which type to use CAN be a
simple matter of personal preference. Whether or not ethics enter into the
equation is another matter. One thing is sure, though. If the correct
answer to a question is simple, it is NOT a matter of ethics......and vice
versa.

Wolfgang

What IS ethics, if not a matter of personal preference and choice?

To answer my own question, I'd suggest that ethics is merely the
adherence to your own set of values. You may have adopted someone elses
values as your own, or you may have come up with them yourself, but if
someone wants to fish a foam crawdad full of fish slime, and does not
feel like it is 'cheating', then its not unethical in their view. If
someone else only fishes self-tied flies, harvested from their own
chickens and llamas, then buying an Adams from the shop is unethical.

But either of these viewpoints might be considered unethical from
someone elses POV.

--riverman

"sandy" wrote in message
. ..
http://montana-riverboats.com/Pages/...nd_shrimp.html

The above is my favorite Crayfish pattern. I caught my biggest brown
in long time on this fly, on the lower Madison, late last fall.

After you catch the first fish, if you hold the fly underneath your net
and squeeze-pump the foam body of the fly a few times, as the scent-laden
fish slime runs down off the net.....then the fly suddenly
becomes noticably, substantially more effective.

(snip)
/* Sandy Pittendrigh

Hi Sandy,
I may have seen this pic, or something similar before, but some questions.
- Why don't you tie it with the hook gap up?
If you use weight, if so, it appears, the critter would be upside down.
I watch quite a few and the orientation is always to scurry back with their
backs to the top as they seek cover. Orientation would seem to me, for
tying, would be to get the hook point away from the bottom stuff.
But, I have seen them, when they were maybe kinda kinkie (sp) they would get
in some different positions.
For mine I always use hook gap up with there being the top of the fly along
the shank.
So I'm just curious.
DaveMohnsen
Denver

Dave Wrote:

Hi Sandy,
I may have seen this pic, or something similar before, but some questions.
- Why don't you tie it with the hook gap up?
If you use weight, if so, it appears, the critter would be upside down.
Hi Dave:

Good questions. Actually that fly has no hook at all yet.
I tie them on a thin needle, finish the fly, slide it off
the needle and then add the hook later, almost as an afterthought.
I photographed that one before the hook was attached.
You can attach the hook any way you want.


To add weight, I add them to the "pincher assembly."
I need to find time to finish a complete step-by-step sequence,
so it's easier to see what the deal is.
It's too hard to explain it in words.


--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

Looks like a knockoff of the Clouser crayfish but using foam instead of
feathers for the legs. Yuck! Check out Clousers crayfish if you want to use
these killers. They should be outlawed for smallmouth.


"sandy" wrote in message
...

Dave Wrote:

Hi Sandy,
I may have seen this pic, or something similar before, but some
questions.
- Why don't you tie it with the hook gap up?
If you use weight, if so, it appears, the critter would be upside down.
Hi Dave:

Good questions. Actually that fly has no hook at all yet.
I tie them on a thin needle, finish the fly, slide it off
the needle and then add the hook later, almost as an afterthought.
I photographed that one before the hook was attached.
You can attach the hook any way you want.


To add weight, I add them to the "pincher assembly."
I need to find time to finish a complete step-by-step sequence,
so it's easier to see what the deal is.
It's too hard to explain it in words.


--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/

Bill McNulty wrote:
Looks like a knockoff of the Clouser crayfish but using foam instead of
feathers for the legs. Yuck! Check out Clousers crayfish if you want to use
these killers. They should be outlawed for smallmouth.

Actually I could just as easily make the reverse argument.
I first published this fly in a magazine back in the late
1980s. Can't remember which one: was it Marty Sherman's Flyfishing,
or TU's Trout...something like that.
I tied it with chamois then, instead of foam.
Then I added foam underneath the chamois, and then
I threw out the chamois.

Claiming ownership of a pattern seldom turns out well.
When I first published the Chamois pattern (same as this one,
with chamois swapped out for foam) I immediately got into
an acrimonious ownership dispute with a well known fly
tier who wanted to claim ownership for some obscure royalty
reasons. My photograph appeared in print before his, so
I won the ownership dispute.....no royalties though.

If the Clouser had foam pinchers, like mine, then it would be good fly.
:-)

--
/* Sandy Pittendrigh --oO0
** http://montana-riverboats.com
*/