And you said it couldn't happen

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/...ess/expats.php

Those rat *******s. Because of the cost of rentals in HK, my housing benefit
is technically higher than my income. And now I'm going to be taxed on this
'invisible money' at a rate higher than if I was even living in the US.

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/...ess/expats.php

Those rat *******s. Because of the cost of rentals in HK, my housing
benefit is technically higher than my income. And now I'm going to be
taxed on this 'invisible money' at a rate higher than if I was even living
in the US.

If what you say about your income is accurate, get your contract changed and
the housing allowance moved into your base salary.

Otherwise, I'd like to sympathize but I don't get my first 80K tax exempt
nor my housing paid for.

"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
...
"riverman" wrote in message
...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/...ess/expats.php

Those rat *******s. Because of the cost of rentals in HK, my housing
benefit is technically higher than my income. And now I'm going to be
taxed on this 'invisible money' at a rate higher than if I was even
living in the US.

If what you say about your income is accurate, get your contract changed
and the housing allowance moved into your base salary.

The school is looking at ways to legally accomodate this new law, but their
first impression is that there will be a mass exodus of americans in the
next few years.


Otherwise, I'd like to sympathize but I don't get my first 80K tax exempt
nor my housing paid for.



'First' 80K? Who makes anywhere near $80K? And my HK taxes are already
higher than my US taxes would be, as they are at a flat rate, with no
exemption or standard deduction. Also, you get to have a retirement plan, a
ROTH, a representative in the government to protect your rights, etc. You
also get the option to own your housing, and to write off the interest on
your loan against your mortage payment, which is akin to having your housing
paid for and then some.

We've been down this road before, but trust me; being an expat worker is
just another slice of real life; it comes with its benefits and its
expenses, but its not the end of the rainbow. Its a choice of lifestyle
based on knowing the benefits and deficits. Getting a tax benefit isn't some
sort of free pass to nevernever land, and when its invoked on a teacher's
salary, and offset by the expenses of living overseas, its not even such a
big thing. My out of pocket expenses for living overseas far exceed the
taxes I'd be paying on my salary if I worked back home.

But now, the primary benefit just went away, and a huge expense just
increased. Hitting expat workers for a tax hike is just a cheap shot, as our
tax benefit is absolutely nothing compared to the tax release Bush just gave
the ultra rich, and we have no lobby, no legal representation, and no one
looking out for our side. And it generates a very strange type of
sympathetic support for Bush when other 'victims' of his fiscal
mismanagement see him picking on someone else other than them. Its a
smokescreen for the tax cuts to the wealthy.

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message ...


LOL. http://tinyurl.com/p87wu

"But repealing the exclusion would also pinch many less-fortunate Americans
in low-tax overseas locations such as Hong Kong, Saudi Arabia and Singapore.
These workers include US taxpayers hired on increasingly common "local" pay
packages - which contain fewer perks and are cheaper for companies to
provide - and people like teachers and not-for-profit workers, who enjoy no
corporate largess. "

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message ...

"riverman" wrote in message
...


LOL. http://tinyurl.com/p87wu

"But repealing the exclusion would also pinch many less-fortunate
Americans in low-tax overseas locations such as Hong Kong, Saudi Arabia
and Singapore. These workers include US taxpayers hired on increasingly
common "local" pay packages - which contain fewer perks and are cheaper
for companies to provide - and people like teachers and not-for-profit
workers, who enjoy no corporate largess. "

--riverman



And in the USA the average person gets a $24,000 exclusion, and you complain
about a drop from $80k to $70k exclusion? And if you get your housing paid
for here in the states, it counts towards your taxable income. I always
thought it was rip to give the exclusion in the first place. When I had to
go overseas on business, I did not get an exclusion on my pay during the 2-3
weeks I traveled.

On Sat, 20 May 2006 12:25:19 +0800, "riverman" wrote:


"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
...
"riverman" wrote in message
...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/...ess/expats.php

Those rat *******s. Because of the cost of rentals in HK, my housing
benefit is technically higher than my income. And now I'm going to be
taxed on this 'invisible money' at a rate higher than if I was even
living in the US.

If what you say about your income is accurate, get your contract changed
and the housing allowance moved into your base salary.

The school is looking at ways to legally accomodate this new law, but their
first impression is that there will be a mass exodus of americans in the
next few years.


Otherwise, I'd like to sympathize but I don't get my first 80K tax exempt
nor my housing paid for.



'First' 80K? Who makes anywhere near $80K?

OK, my brother, I'm still with ya, but I'm kinda wondering what's the
problem here? If you don't make 80K, I'm guessing the new 82K isn't a
problem, either, but with these rat *******s having forced you into
this...

And my HK taxes are already
higher than my US taxes would be, as they are at a flat rate, with no
exemption or standard deduction. Also, you get to have a retirement plan, a
ROTH, a representative in the government to protect your rights, etc. You
also get the option to own your housing, and to write off the interest on
your loan against your mortage payment, which is akin to having your housing
paid for and then some.

Yeah, Wayne...I just hope you thank God every morning that when they
came to force you into working outside the US, you escaped and have
managed to stay out of their clutches ever since...I'm planning on doing
what I can to help my brother Myron escape - surely you're with us,
aren't ya, my brother?

We've been down this road before, but trust me; being an expat worker is
just another slice of real life; it comes with its benefits and its
expenses, but its not the end of the rainbow.

Its a choice of lifestyle

Oh...hmm, ya know, my ex-stepbrother-in-law, it's kinda hard to work up
a really good sense of outrage against a stove company when the "victim"
claims they got a bad burn and a scar that said "Do Not Sit Here" _EVERY
time_ they hopped up on it...

HTH,
R

wrote in message
...

Yeah, Wayne...I just hope you thank God every morning that when they
came to force you into working outside the US, you escaped and have
managed to stay out of their clutches ever since...I'm planning on doing
what I can to help my brother Myron escape - surely you're with us,
aren't ya, my brother?

I worked overseas once, not my cup of tea. At least Saudi Arabia wasn't.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 May 2006 12:25:19 +0800, "riverman" wrote:


"Wayne Knight" wrote in message
...
"riverman" wrote in message
...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/05/...ess/expats.php

Those rat *******s. Because of the cost of rentals in HK, my housing
benefit is technically higher than my income. And now I'm going to be
taxed on this 'invisible money' at a rate higher than if I was even
living in the US.

If what you say about your income is accurate, get your contract changed
and the housing allowance moved into your base salary.

The school is looking at ways to legally accomodate this new law, but
their
first impression is that there will be a mass exodus of americans in the
next few years.


Otherwise, I'd like to sympathize but I don't get my first 80K tax
exempt
nor my housing paid for.



'First' 80K? Who makes anywhere near $80K?

OK, my brother, I'm still with ya, but I'm kinda wondering what's the
problem here? If you don't make 80K, I'm guessing the new 82K isn't a
problem, either, but with these rat *******s having forced you into
this...

And my HK taxes are already
higher than my US taxes would be, as they are at a flat rate, with no
exemption or standard deduction. Also, you get to have a retirement plan,
a
ROTH, a representative in the government to protect your rights, etc. You
also get the option to own your housing, and to write off the interest on
your loan against your mortage payment, which is akin to having your
housing
paid for and then some.

Yeah, Wayne...I just hope you thank God every morning that when they
came to force you into working outside the US, you escaped and have
managed to stay out of their clutches ever since...I'm planning on doing
what I can to help my brother Myron escape - surely you're with us,
aren't ya, my brother?

We've been down this road before, but trust me; being an expat worker is
just another slice of real life; it comes with its benefits and its
expenses, but its not the end of the rainbow.

Its a choice of lifestyle

Oh...hmm, ya know, my ex-stepbrother-in-law, it's kinda hard to work up
a really good sense of outrage against a stove company when the "victim"
claims they got a bad burn and a scar that said "Do Not Sit Here" _EVERY
time_ they hopped up on it...

HTH,
R


And are not those British taxes deductible, or a credit against US taxes?

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
.net...


And are not those British taxes deductible, or a credit against US taxes?

Hi Bill (et al),
I wasn't going to discuss this here, because I know that its beyond
understanding of most folks in the states. They hear 'tax exemption' all
their sympathies go out the window, and are replaced with thoughts like 'I
pay my taxes, you should pay yours' and 'gee, I wish I had an $80K
exemption' and they miss the details. Its the inability or unwillingness to
consider those details that enables things like this tax law to get passed
in the first place.

Let me explain the details one time, then I'm EOT because the talk I've seen
here shows me that my frustration is not understood nor sympathized with,
and instead (knowing the history of this forum), people here love to get all
piranha on each other when they see someone truly upset, as I am.

First of all, I don't pay taxes to the Brits. I pay to the HK government,
which is a Special Administrative Region of the Chinese Government. So my
tax dollars (at a 15% flat 15% rate of my income-plus-10%, with no
exemptions or deductions) goes to fund the big Chinese entity in the east.
That's a condition of working here in HK which I was fully aware of and am
not concerned with. My HK tax, after all the nickles and dimes, is
reasonable as HK prefers to keep taxes low to entice businesses to come
here. I pay something in the realm of $3000 US for yearly HK taxes.

Second of all, I still don't pay any US taxes on my income. That exemption
was actually increased, something that only affects the expats who earn more
than $82K a year, which for the record is not even in the ballpark of my
salary. As far as HK expats go, I earn a teacher's salary.

Now, some of most of you are already not listening, because I said the magic
turnoff words 'don't pay US taxes', but consider the rest of the picture.

The new US tax burden is on the Housing Benefit alone. It was designed to
target those expat corporate execs who are earning $100K per year, but are
being given luxurious $3K -$4K per month apartments in cities all over the
world as a tax-hidden benefit, most of which are in countries with standards
of living far below the US. Those guys are living like kings, as $3k buys a
mansion. It specifically lowers the excludable housing allowance from
whatever it was (beyond what my housing was worth) to about $11K. For most
expats in the world, the new housing cap has no effect, as your average
teacher's apartment is probably in the realm of $300-$400 a month.

Here in HK, thats not the case. In fact, HK is being held up as a specific
place where the new law doesn't fit. Apartments are EXPENSIVE. I could not
affort to teach here if I had to pay my own rent; my 1-story 2 bedroom flat,
with a kitchen that measures 3x4 feet and a bedroom only big enough for a
bed (no dresser) rents for $3500 per month. In fact, the rental on my
efficiency apartment exceeds my yearly income.

And any housing benefit I recieve that has value beyond $11k, I now have to
pay US taxes on. So my tax liability is now based on US$31000. To top that
off, the tax tables for this particular expat tax aren't 'stepped': you pay
the full rate on the first dollar, instead of a smaller percentage on the
first chunk, as with most other US taxes. On top of that, its a higher tax
rate than regular income tax. The result is that it looks like I'll be
liable for about $6000 in US taxes next year. Keep in mind, the new law
prohibits me from writing off my HK taxes against that, as its a tax on a
different part of my income. The HK tax is against my US income tax, which
is sheltered. Also, there are NO shelters allowed against the new housing
tax. Its a flat rate without loopholes. Also, keep in mind that in any other
part of the world, if I were getting a $3500 apartment, I'd be a corporate
exec with discretionary funds, corporate largesse, access to corporate
accountants, and could easily dodge this bullet with voodoo bookkeeping.
But, of all the expats in the world, its HK medium income workers who are
being caught in the crosshairs the most.

Now, for the IMPORTANT part (for those of you who stopped reading at 'I
don't pay taxes'). If I worked in the US, I wouldn't pay taxes either,
just as many of you don't pay taxes. My income, as a teacher with 15 years
experience, would be about what it is now, however I could itemize. I could
write off my exemption, my yearly donation to a ROTH or 401K, my mortagage
interest, my work-related expenses, my home improvement costs, education
expenses, travel expenses, moving expenses, etc etc etc, and at the end of
the year, I'd be getting back pretty much all I sent in. (Maybe less a
thousand or two, but not much.). But since I do not have any US based
income, I can't write off those expenses. I'm not even allowed to have some
of them (ROTH), and the others I have to just eat, like the mortage interest
and housing expenses. But thats okay; the $82K exemption I am allowed
roughly offsets those expenses, and the net result is the same. So please
don't think that my tax exemption is any big thing: its another way to get
the same benefit I would get if I itemized US-based income as a teacher. Its
been that way since I moved overseas; the only difference is that its easier
to file.

But this NEW thing....thats a different story. Its a harsh tax, without
loopholes or exemptions, that will hit HK workers (and Singapore and
Bermuda) hard. My housing benefit is an invisible benefit: my house in Congo
was nicer than my HK apartment, but because of the inflated rate of HK
apartments, I have to pay a huge percentage of my takehome pay, in excess of
the tax I already pay the HK government, to the US. And the US is the ONLY
NATION on earth that makes its expats pay taxes.

Now, before any of you get all 'I wish my income was sheltered' on me, go
back and read what I wrote. If you earned what I earn, you shouldn't be
paying more than a few thousand dollars a year either. THE TAX SHELTER DOES
NOT GIVE AN ADVANTAGE: IT ONLY LEVEL THE FIELD TO WHAT WE"D HAVE BACK IN THE
US. But if you still think that 'well, if you chose to earn a teacher's
salary, then you have no grounds to complain about not having anything left
after this big tax' then how can you dare challenge RDean's defense of HIS
taxes. He's saying the precise same thing to you: just because you're not
rich, don't bitch about losing a big chunk of your income (forget about
percentages).

OK, thats EOT, because if you still don't get it, I can't help you.

--riverman

"riverman" wrote in message ...


The school is looking at ways to legally accomodate this new law, but
their first impression is that there will be a mass exodus of americans in
the next few years.

I doubt there will be a mass exodus. When it gets right down to it, you need
a new tax accountant. While I am an accountant, I am not a tax accountant
but isn't there some credit for taxes paid in another country? The expats I
do taxes for don't pay a foreign income tax and it's been a while since I
dealt with it.

'First' 80K? Who makes anywhere near $80K? [snip] Also, you get to have a
retirement plan, a ROTH, a representative in the government to protect
your rights, etc. You also get the option to own your housing, and to
write off the interest on your loan against your mortage payment, which is
akin to having your housing paid for and then some.

Do you want me to apologize for working full time, raising a kid, and
getting three degrees after being a ward of the state of Florida while you
were out perfecting your paddling skills? I worked my ass off, took some
lumps, made some mistakes, got a few breaks here and there, but overall just
persevered. Yes, I make more than 80k as I'm sure several here do. some here
make more than me, some make less, so what? I don't get to take summers off
and go all over the world to fish and see places I only dream about in
National geographic. As to my retirement plan, like most non-union
non-public sector employees I'm on a defined contribution plan. I'm
dependent on the stock market and what I can put away in a 403b to eat and
travel on something besides social security. You're right it's a lifestyle
choice, I made mine and I live with it. You got the same government bubba,
but as far as representing "me", I'm a democrat in a republican state

We've been down this road before, but trust me; being an expat worker is
just another slice of real life; it comes with its benefits and its
expenses, but its not the end of the rainbow. Its a choice of lifestyle
based on knowing the benefits and deficits. Getting a tax benefit isn't
some sort of free pass to nevernever land, and when its invoked on a
teacher's salary, and offset by the expenses of living overseas, its not
even such a big thing. My out of pocket expenses for living overseas far
exceed the taxes I'd be paying on my salary if I worked back home.

Maybe you have mis-conception on teacher's salary, last time we got into
this particular ****ing contest I googled up a couple of stories which
mentioned long term teachers in the Chicago area and somewhere near
DC/Baltimore getting 6 figures salaries. Granted these are the exceptions
but teachers are not exactly living in poverty.

But now, the primary benefit just went away, and a huge expense just
increased. Hitting expat workers for a tax hike is just a cheap shot, as
our tax benefit is absolutely nothing compared to the tax release Bush
just gave the ultra rich, and we have no lobby, no legal representation,
and no one looking out for our side. And it generates a very strange type
of sympathetic support for Bush when other 'victims' of his fiscal
mismanagement see him picking on someone else other than them. Its a
smokescreen for the tax cuts to the wealthy.

You know I despise Bush as much as anyone and the overall tax cut does
benefit the higher paying *taxpayers* which I think is wrong in this period
of deficits and supposed war, it alos makes need changes to the alternative
minimum tax which has become more and more a middle class tax trap. And if
you expats had no *lobby*, then why are we reading about it in national
publications? Like I said the first time you brought this up, we have single
moms in this country trying to escape poverty making what you make and
paying taxes. So now you have to pay taxes on your housing, you income is
still tax exempt. In your case it is a very easy fix to keep your money tax
free. Like I said, hire a good tax accountant. He/She will be worth the
$500-$1000 its going to cost you.