casting for casting advice

I'm 100% self taught as a fly caster and the truth is, my instructor wasn't
too good.

Normally, my abilities are fine with me, although I do see a lot of other FF
point my direction and laugh as I cast. I can manipulate the line into
curves and around rocks and, generally, get it to serve it's fish catching
function ... at the short ranges I normally fish. I actually prefer the
challenge of getting closer to the fish to casting tests, anyway.

But, every year, about this time (Striper time and 'ain't nothing left but
stillwaters' time ) I become aware of my failing as a distance caster.

My question
...after a comment. I'm a little afraid to get too involved in trying to
relearn casting.
I fear three things
1) getting so self-conscious that I actually get worse ( I've seen golfer
friends do this, 'think' themselves into troubles ) and lose the short line
abilities seeking long line fishing I only do a few days / year .. I can
live without really casting a long line well, have for nearly 40 years
2) falling into a blame the tools trap, that sees me out senselessly
spending on new miracle rods ( I'm a sucker )
3) losing fishing skills to casting skills ( some [ not all TJ :-) ] really
skilled 'tight loop' guys I see can't fish worth a damn and it 'appears' to
be related to their casting skill ... they consistently choose to cast
rather than fish ... wailing a long line to the other side while wondering
what those things flashing away from their feet are :-)

Have any suggestions for videos/ books on long line casting? Have any
experience in "re-learning" to cast after many many years of doing it the
wrong way? Opinions on whether it would be worth the effort for a few days
a year, when much of my fishing sees me backing up to get far enough away to
cast? Opinions on where/ how to practice? ( I see suggestions to 'practice'
without a rod and such that stretch my old fart view of reality )

Larry L wrote:

But, every year, about this time (Striper time and 'ain't nothing left but
stillwaters' time ) I become aware of my failing as a distance caster.

My question
..after a comment. I'm a little afraid to get too involved in trying to
relearn casting.
I fear three things
1) getting so self-conscious that I actually get worse .........
2) falling into a blame the tools trap .........
3) losing fishing skills to casting skills ........

I improved my distance casting (somewhat) by concentrating on learning
to haul and double haul better. It's true that too much thinking made
my hauling worse before it got better, but--perhaps because these aren't
techniques that I use at shorter distances--working on them didn't at
all confound my "normal" casting.

On the other hand, an earlier attempt to improve my distance casting by
switching to a stiffer rod and screwing with the timing of my casting
stroke was disasterous.

JR

Hi Larry,

There's a good written blurb by George Roberts on distance casting at:

http://www.flyfishsal****ers.com/fly...ess_effort.htm

He also has a video Sal****er Fly-Casting: 10 Steps to Distance and Power,
which is available at:

http://www.whitemouseflyfishing.com

I can't vouch for the video (haven't seen it), but his writing is
informative.

On a philosophical note, why care what others think about your casting
style? I never met a mortal man or woman that was supremely competent to
pass judgment on somebody else's casting.

My dad never cast more than about 30 feet and was an outstanding stillwater
flyfisher even though he rarely cast a fly in his later years (he was more
interested in his goal of a +25 lb lake trout, and so stuck to hardware).
Like you, he was very successful with a short line because he knew how to
fish the fly. I however was more interested in distance & precision
casting, and learned the tricks to lace out the line to the backing. Only
after the old man outfished me daily for an entire season did I settle down
& cast to fish rather than cast for the sake of casting.

Re/ specific attempts to answer your questions:

1. Don't worry what others think - the 'snicker' crowd are probably
butt-heads anyway that flyfish for all the wrong reasons.

2. The flyrod does play an important role in distance casting. You need a
rod that will fully "absorb" the power of your casting stroke & transmit it
efficiently to your flyline. In rod manufacturer terms, the rod must "load"
and "unload" properly. Your natural casting stroke may respond very well to
some rod designs re/ distance, and not well to others. For example, my
sweet little 7 wt Orvis Superfine pack rod (no longer made) is very slow
action (made with low stiffness graphite composite); it simply cannot absorb
the power of my casting stroke beyond some critical level. It basically
wimps out & won't deliver more than about 60 ft of line (and that's with
real finesse). My modern, fast-action, 7 wt Sage rods can lay out 90 ft of
line with just a few double haul cycles and a good line shoot, and while
working a open loop (I nearly always use one or two dropper flies, and the
normal tight loop tends to encourage line/leader snagging).

So if looking for significant increase in distance, you may need to hunt
around for a fast action rod. The best bet is to visit your local flyshop &
bug the hell out of the staff, casting everything under the sun (with a full
rig: line + reel).

3. I totally agree that many folks put on a good casting demo & a very poor
fishing demo. And with proper timing & application of power, you can throw
an open loop and shoot a lot of line with conventional weight forward
tapers - I do it all the time. But the tight loop is the first goal to
achieve.

And casting can be learned, or-re-learned, by anybody. The secret is the
desire to learn, like most things in life.

Good luck,
Blain

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry L"
Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 8:59 AM
Subject: casting for casting advice


I'm 100% self taught as a fly caster and the truth is, my instructor
wasn't
too good.

Normally, my abilities are fine with me, although I do see a lot of other
FF
point my direction and laugh as I cast. I can manipulate the line into
curves and around rocks and, generally, get it to serve it's fish catching
function ... at the short ranges I normally fish. I actually prefer the
challenge of getting closer to the fish to casting tests, anyway.

But, every year, about this time (Striper time and 'ain't nothing left but
stillwaters' time ) I become aware of my failing as a distance caster.

My question
..after a comment. I'm a little afraid to get too involved in trying to
relearn casting.
I fear three things
1) getting so self-conscious that I actually get worse ( I've seen golfer
friends do this, 'think' themselves into troubles ) and lose the short
line
abilities seeking long line fishing I only do a few days / year .. I can
live without really casting a long line well, have for nearly 40 years
2) falling into a blame the tools trap, that sees me out senselessly
spending on new miracle rods ( I'm a sucker )
3) losing fishing skills to casting skills ( some [ not all TJ :-) ]
really
skilled 'tight loop' guys I see can't fish worth a damn and it 'appears'
to
be related to their casting skill ... they consistently choose to cast
rather than fish ... wailing a long line to the other side while
wondering
what those things flashing away from their feet are :-)

Have any suggestions for videos/ books on long line casting? Have any
experience in "re-learning" to cast after many many years of doing it the
wrong way? Opinions on whether it would be worth the effort for a few
days
a year, when much of my fishing sees me backing up to get far enough away
to
cast? Opinions on where/ how to practice? ( I see suggestions to
'practice'
without a rod and such that stretch my old fart view of reality )



"JR" wrote in message
...
Larry L wrote:

But, every year, about this time (Striper time and 'ain't nothing left
but
stillwaters' time ) I become aware of my failing as a distance caster.

My question
..after a comment. I'm a little afraid to get too involved in trying
to
relearn casting.
I fear three things
1) getting so self-conscious that I actually get worse .........
2) falling into a blame the tools trap .........
3) losing fishing skills to casting skills ........

I improved my distance casting (somewhat) by concentrating on learning
to haul and double haul better. It's true that too much thinking made
my hauling worse before it got better, but--perhaps because these aren't
techniques that I use at shorter distances--working on them didn't at
all confound my "normal" casting.

On the other hand, an earlier attempt to improve my distance casting by
switching to a stiffer rod and screwing with the timing of my casting
stroke was disasterous.

JR

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:13:48 -0700, "Blain Olbert"
wrote:



On a philosophical note, why care what others think about your casting
style? I never met a mortal man or woman that was supremely competent to
pass judgment on somebody else's casting.

In my case it's because I can't lay the blasted fly down properly as
much of the time as I'd like. The whole line tends to flail the water
instead of settling gently and then the tippet dropping the little
thing in place like a naturally falling bug. Distance where I fish is
of little importance. 30 feet is fine with me (and wider than some
parts of some of the streams I fish.). Putting the fly down right
takes a minimum of good casting. Most good casting seems to look a
lot the same, when I watch those who catch fish.

So I want to be able to do that. Then do that where I'm sure the fish
are. Once I can do that, I'll not worry all that much about how it
looks, though I'll still want it to _feel_ right.

--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:11:44 -0500, lid wrote:

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:13:48 -0700, "Blain Olbert"
wrote:



On a philosophical note, why care what others think about your casting
style? I never met a mortal man or woman that was supremely competent to
pass judgment on somebody else's casting.

In my case it's because I can't lay the blasted fly down properly as
much of the time as I'd like. The whole line tends to flail the water
instead of settling gently and then the tippet dropping the little
thing in place like a naturally falling bug. Distance where I fish is
of little importance. 30 feet is fine with me (and wider than some
parts of some of the streams I fish.). Putting the fly down right
takes a minimum of good casting. Most good casting seems to look a
lot the same, when I watch those who catch fish.

So I want to be able to do that. Then do that where I'm sure the fish
are. Once I can do that, I'll not worry all that much about how it
looks, though I'll still want it to _feel_ right.

--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Well Cyli, there is another Wisconsin clave being held in early June just a few
miles from MN on the Rush. There are always casting clinics (and tying ones,
too) at these things. Its a long time away and most of the best trouting will of
the year will be winding down by then but keep it in the back of your mind,eh?

g.c.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:20:38 GMT,
(George Cleveland) wrote:



Well Cyli, there is another Wisconsin clave being held in early June just a few
miles from MN on the Rush. There are always casting clinics (and tying ones,
too) at these things. Its a long time away and most of the best trouting will of
the year will be winding down by then but keep it in the back of your mind,eh?


Cool. Might not be able to do the first week in June, but I should
have free time after that.

I assume it'll show up on the WI flyfishing board?
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

wrote in message
...

In my case it's because I can't lay the blasted fly down properly as
much of the time as I'd like. The whole line tends to flail the water
instead of settling gently and then the tippet dropping the little
thing in place like a naturally falling bug. Distance where I fish is
of little importance. 30 feet is fine with me (and wider than some
parts of some of the streams I fish.). Putting the fly down right

Charles Ritz emphasizes we should not
cast at the water but at a point a yard above
the water: so that after forward motion
stops line and leader both fall gently.
Have you tried this?

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 10:24:47 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .

In my case it's because I can't lay the blasted fly down properly as
much of the time as I'd like. The whole line tends to flail the water
instead of settling gently and then the tippet dropping the little
thing in place like a naturally falling bug. Distance where I fish is
of little importance. 30 feet is fine with me (and wider than some
parts of some of the streams I fish.). Putting the fly down right

Charles Ritz emphasizes we should not
cast at the water but at a point a yard above
the water: so that after forward motion
stops line and leader both fall gently.
Have you tried this?


No. Never heard of it. Makes great sense, though. I'll try to
remember it.
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

An hour with a pro might be a better way to spend the money as opposed to a
book or video because he or she will be able to tell you what to work on and
what to leave alone. More importantly, a person can answer a question.

That said, I got more distance when I finally figured out the rod stop on
the back and fore cast.

Good luck.

Chris Brown

How does one find such instructors?