Rio Line

Just a follow-up about some Rio line. As you may recall my earlier post
about what lines I should get for my brother and brother-in-law reels. SA
on one, Rio on the other in 9wt and 8 wt respectively. While at the shop, I
decided to get some 5wt Rio for one of my reels and test it.

Dealer happen to have some Rio Demo fly line (WF5F) and I spooled it up on
my spare. Weather conditions were excellent for testing with a nice soft
breeze - maybe a tad strong at times but would be good for doing some
comparative testing of 5 wt lines.

Used my 9', 5wt, St. Croix Legend which is a fast+ rated rod and one I
really like. First line up to test was the Rio - and was I disappointed....
Could not for the life of me get any distance out of that line with a
head-on breeze. Line simply folded up in front of me and dropped to the
water like it had an anchor tied to it. Tried numerous times and 20' was
about all I could get.

Quickly changed to other spool with Orvis G3 5 wt line and first cast went
out an easy 50' on the water. Same breezy conditions, same rod just
different line and not a problem.

Back to the Rio line. Same results. When the wind died down and almost a
dead calm, I could get 50' but had to work at it. When the wind kicked up,
that line folds. Had my brother cast the same rigs and his results were
like mine.

The Rio line feels like a 4wt not a 5wt line as the package is marked. I'll
be going back to the dealer with it to see if he can verify exactly which
line it is.

For what it's worth department. If you haven't tried the Orvis G3 lines,
you're in for a treat. Even a novice like me can tell that there is a
significant difference in the line and it casts like a dream on both an
Orvis TLS, mid-flex (7) rod and my fast Legend. I have SA Mastery GPX,
Steelhead and Bass lines, Cortland 555-444-333, Rio (demo), and Orvis G3
lines in several weights for my rod collection and the Orvis, 5wt line wins
in the "cast-ability & accuracy" category.

Bob S.

On Aug 13, 9:06 am, "BobS" wrote:

[snip]
Used my 9', 5wt, St. Croix Legend which is a fast+ rated rod and one I
really like. First line up to test was the Rio - and was I disappointed....
Could not for the life of me get any distance out of that line with a
head-on breeze. Line simply folded up in front of me and dropped to the
water like it had an anchor tied to it. Tried numerous times and 20' was
about all I could get.

Quickly changed to other spool with Orvis G3 5 wt line and first cast went
out an easy 50' on the water.

In spite of what was presented in another recent thread on fly lines,
welcome to the world of fly line to rod specialization. I too, would
be curious to know what Rio line that was used to test your rod. RIO
make six fly lines for freshwater fly fishing plus their specialty
lines. If it was the selective trout line that you tried, it would not
surprise me that it did not work for you but if it was the Grand, then
I would be concerned. Same as with the Orvis line you tested, it's
made for fast action rods and it would do better on that Legend. But
there's also a reason it's called G3, or Generation 3, the Wonderlines
have always been good casting lines but often have left something to
be desired when actually fishing with them in many cases.

Other more accomplished casters often poo-poo this line of thoughts
but for use mere mortals.......

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:06:59 -0400, "BobS" wrote:

Just a follow-up about some Rio line. As you may recall my earlier post
about what lines I should get for my brother and brother-in-law reels. SA
on one, Rio on the other in 9wt and 8 wt respectively. While at the shop, I
decided to get some 5wt Rio for one of my reels and test it.

Dealer happen to have some Rio Demo fly line (WF5F) and I spooled it up on
my spare. Weather conditions were excellent for testing with a nice soft
breeze - maybe a tad strong at times but would be good for doing some
comparative testing of 5 wt lines.

Used my 9', 5wt, St. Croix Legend which is a fast+ rated rod and one I
really like. First line up to test was the Rio - and was I disappointed....
Could not for the life of me get any distance out of that line with a
head-on breeze. Line simply folded up in front of me and dropped to the
water like it had an anchor tied to it. Tried numerous times and 20' was
about all I could get.

Quickly changed to other spool with Orvis G3 5 wt line and first cast went
out an easy 50' on the water. Same breezy conditions, same rod just
different line and not a problem.

Back to the Rio line. Same results. When the wind died down and almost a
dead calm, I could get 50' but had to work at it. When the wind kicked up,
that line folds. Had my brother cast the same rigs and his results were
like mine.

The Rio line feels like a 4wt not a 5wt line as the package is marked. I'll
be going back to the dealer with it to see if he can verify exactly which
line it is.

For what it's worth department. If you haven't tried the Orvis G3 lines,
you're in for a treat. Even a novice like me can tell that there is a
significant difference in the line and it casts like a dream on both an
Orvis TLS, mid-flex (7) rod and my fast Legend. I have SA Mastery GPX,
Steelhead and Bass lines, Cortland 555-444-333, Rio (demo), and Orvis G3
lines in several weights for my rod collection and the Orvis, 5wt line wins
in the "cast-ability & accuracy" category.

Bob S.


You can check the line yourself - simply weigh the first 30 feet (or the
entire forward taper) and compare to a RIO chart. Which lines in the
various series are you using? There are a number of different lines
that fit your descriptions. Also, can you elaborate on "20'" and "50'"
- are you saying you are getting 20' and 50' of total distance, tiptop
to fly, or 20' and 50' of actual line, exclusive of leader, or ??? IAC,
I suspect that the difference in distance is not related to one being
RIO and one being Orvis, assuming the lines are similar offerings (i.e.,
similar weight, taper, etc.), and the 20' thing is why.

TC,
R

On Aug 13, 3:06 pm, "BobS" wrote:


Used my 9', 5wt, St. Croix Legend which is a fast+ rated rod and one I
really like. First line up to test was the Rio - and was I disappointed....
Could not for the life of me get any distance out of that line with a
head-on breeze. Line simply folded up in front of me and dropped to the
water like it had an anchor tied to it. Tried numerous times and 20' was
about all I could get.

Quickly changed to other spool with Orvis G3 5 wt line and first cast went
out an easy 50' on the water. Same breezy conditions, same rod just
different line and not a problem.

Back to the Rio line. Same results. When the wind died down and almost a
dead calm, I could get 50' but had to work at it. When the wind kicked up,
that line folds. Had my brother cast the same rigs and his results were
like mine.

The Rio line feels like a 4wt not a 5wt line as the package is marked. I'll
be going back to the dealer with it to see if he can verify exactly which
line it is.


For there to be that much difference in the lines, they would have to
be completely different weights and configurations.

There are often considerable differences in lines of the same nominal
weight from various manufacturers, but not as considerable as that.
Some lines feel better on some rods, although this is often mainly
subjective, it should not make a difference of more than a few feet
when casting.

Also, comparisons like this only work between lines with similar
configurations.

--
Regards and tight lines!

Mike Connor

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en

BobS wrote:

Just a follow-up about some Rio line. As you may recall my earlier post
about what lines I should get for my brother and brother-in-law reels. SA
on one, Rio on the other in 9wt and 8 wt respectively. While at the shop, I
decided to get some 5wt Rio for one of my reels and test it.

Dealer happen to have some Rio Demo fly line (WF5F) and I spooled it up on
my spare. Weather conditions were excellent for testing with a nice soft
breeze - maybe a tad strong at times but would be good for doing some
comparative testing of 5 wt lines.

Used my 9', 5wt, St. Croix Legend which is a fast+ rated rod and one I
really like. First line up to test was the Rio - and was I disappointed....
Could not for the life of me get any distance out of that line with a
head-on breeze. Line simply folded up in front of me and dropped to the
water like it had an anchor tied to it. Tried numerous times and 20' was
about all I could get.

Quickly changed to other spool with Orvis G3 5 wt line and first cast went
out an easy 50' on the water. Same breezy conditions, same rod just
different line and not a problem.

Back to the Rio line. Same results. When the wind died down and almost a
dead calm, I could get 50' but had to work at it. When the wind kicked up,
that line folds. Had my brother cast the same rigs and his results were
like mine.

The Rio line feels like a 4wt not a 5wt line as the package is marked. I'll
be going back to the dealer with it to see if he can verify exactly which
line it is.

For what it's worth department. If you haven't tried the Orvis G3 lines,
you're in for a treat. Even a novice like me can tell that there is a
significant difference in the line and it casts like a dream on both an
Orvis TLS, mid-flex (7) rod and my fast Legend. I have SA Mastery GPX,
Steelhead and Bass lines, Cortland 555-444-333, Rio (demo), and Orvis G3
lines in several weights for my rod collection and the Orvis, 5wt line wins
in the "cast-ability & accuracy" category.

Bob S.

Hmm. Something just sounds out of whack. I've heard of stories like
this, but it's usually because of something was done wrong....like a WF
line was put on backwards. I don't think a "defective" line would show
this much discrepancy to another line. Could be a wrong line weight
rating, but even that wouldn't make the line not cast further than 20'.
Very odd. I'd like to hear what you find out. FWIW, I use a lot of Rio
lines. Never had an issue with any of them, or any other brands for that
matter. All lines, and weights, could be cast more than 20'.

brians

Lots of comments and I'll try to cover them he

1. Type of line is unknown and the package is only marked " "RIO Demo Fly
Line WF5F". I can't get a good match against any lines shown on their site.
It could be one of several.

2. Line is installed correctly. Tag at end said "Attach this end to
backing". Tag could have been put on wrong end of line but I doubt I could
cast 50' with the running line only. Hey, I'm only a novice - not an
accomplished caster............;-)

3. When casting into a head on wind I get a distance of about 20' (tiptop to
end of line) and then it just goes into a swiggle (in mid air) and drops to
the water as though it hit a pane of glass almost. When the wind was not
blowing, I could cast out about 50' of line. Had a 9' leader but I was
judging distance by the fly line since its a bright yellow and a little
easier to see then my indicator yarn tied to the end.

4. I don't have a scale that will measure grams but I will be going back to
the shop to have them ID it. I really think its a 4wt in which just got put
in the wroing package. For those not aware of the Demo packaging, it's just
a zip-lock type of plastic bag with a plain Rio label on it with a tear-off,
sticky tab that has the line weight and type printed on it that you put on
the spool.

5. As for the Orvis line being made for faster action lines, I know that and
of my 7 rods, only 2 are moderate-fast (Diamondback VSR and the Orvis TLS)
and 1 slow rod (the sweet 7' Diamondglass). Supposedly (according to shop
owner) the Rio line was meant for faster rods also but I'll know for sure
tomorrow.


It may be that the Rio line has a longer front taper and the weight is
further back than on other lines I have. Without the wind, I could cast it
out okay but still had to push it in comparison to the other line I was
comparing it against. Perhaps this line is for the more advanced caster
that knows how to chuck a spear into the wind. I simply made some
observations of what the line did under windy conditions for me and was
hoping to here comments from others that have used Rio. Upon reflection,
the only ID I have is "Demo" and it's yellow and it say's its WF5F.

Thanks,

Bob S.

On Aug 14, 3:19 am, "BobS" wrote:
Lots of comments and I'll try to cover them he

1. Type of line is unknown and the package is only marked " "RIO Demo Fly
Line WF5F". I can't get a good match against any lines shown on their site.
It could be one of several.

2. Line is installed correctly. Tag at end said "Attach this end to
backing". Tag could have been put on wrong end of line but I doubt I could
cast 50' with the running line only. Hey, I'm only a novice - not an
accomplished caster............;-)

3. When casting into a head on wind I get a distance of about 20' (tiptop to
end of line) and then it just goes into a swiggle (in mid air) and drops to
the water as though it hit a pane of glass almost. When the wind was not
blowing, I could cast out about 50' of line. Had a 9' leader but I was
judging distance by the fly line since its a bright yellow and a little
easier to see then my indicator yarn tied to the end.

4. I don't have a scale that will measure grams but I will be going back to
the shop to have them ID it. I really think its a 4wt in which just got put
in the wroing package. For those not aware of the Demo packaging, it's just
a zip-lock type of plastic bag with a plain Rio label on it with a tear-off,
sticky tab that has the line weight and type printed on it that you put on
the spool.

5. As for the Orvis line being made for faster action lines, I know that and
of my 7 rods, only 2 are moderate-fast (Diamondback VSR and the Orvis TLS)
and 1 slow rod (the sweet 7' Diamondglass). Supposedly (according to shop
owner) the Rio line was meant for faster rods also but I'll know for sure
tomorrow.

It may be that the Rio line has a longer front taper and the weight is
further back than on other lines I have. Without the wind, I could cast it
out okay but still had to push it in comparison to the other line I was
comparing it against. Perhaps this line is for the more advanced caster
that knows how to chuck a spear into the wind. I simply made some
observations of what the line did under windy conditions for me and was
hoping to here comments from others that have used Rio. Upon reflection,
the only ID I have is "Demo" and it's yellow and it say's its WF5F.

Thanks,

Bob S.

There is another possibility here, and I have seen it happen on a
couple of lines. Your description of how the line seems to "hit a pane
of glass" describes the fault exactly, and it is caused by either
manufacturing residue, or some other substance on the running line.
This stops the line dead in the air.

Clean the line off in lukewarm soapy water, and dress it with the
recommended line dressing ( some recommend none, see the manufacturer
´s blurb) ), then try it again. If it still does the same thing, then
it is a different weight line to the other one you are using.

--
Regards and tight lines!

Mike Connor

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en

May also be of interest to you, you don´t need a scale to compare
lines. Just get a foot rule or similar. Hang the lines to be compared
on each end, at the same points, and place the rule on a fulcrum. If
the lines are the same weight, they should roughly balance. If they
aren´t, they wont!

You can also use weights of a known value ( Cent coins or similar.
New American cents minted after 1996 weigh 38.61 grains ) to gauge the
actual weight more or less exactly.

--
Regards and tight lines!

Mike Connor

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...
May also be of interest to you, you don´t need a scale to compare
lines. Just get a foot rule or similar. Hang the lines to be compared
on each end, at the same points, and place the rule on a fulcrum. If
the lines are the same weight, they should roughly balance. If they
aren´t, they wont!

You can also use weights of a known value ( Cent coins or similar.
New American cents minted after 1996 weigh 38.61 grains ) to gauge the
actual weight more or less exactly.

--
Regards and tight lines!

Mike Connor

http://www.mike-connor.homepage.t-online.de/

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Flycorner?hl=en

Mike,

Good suggestions to remember for the future but in this case - the problem
turned out to be all me. I just made a post that explains that.

Thanks for taking the time - I really do appreciate that.

Bob S.

Boy did I get a good lesson today !

I'll give the fly shop a plug here and the owner since he was kind enough to
take the time to be an excellent mentor today. Wayne Walts and his business
is named "TroutFitter" located at 5008 Erie Blvd, East in Syracuse, NY. Ph
is (315) 446-2047.

I'll sum this up - It was me, not the line.

Rio demo line was 5wt. The first 30' weighed in at 140 grains. The demo line
is the Grand version (I mistakenly said the color was yellow - it's a lime
green)

He said no problem on returning the line but I wanted to know why I was
having so much problem with this line compared to other lines I have. He
grabbed a Sage rod and installed that line and outside we went. Part of the
lesson he gave me included him casting that line, into the wind with only
the top 2/3rds of that Sage Z-Axis rod out to about 60' without trying.
That's one helluva demo.....

He put the rod back together and was casting that line like it had a
heat-sinking missile attached to the leader. Obviously nothing wrong with
the line and right about then, I'm feeling pretty stupid to say the least.
He could sense that I beleive and then proceeded to give me a lesson in
casting. I had attended the Orvis class in the past, did pretty good so I
thought and was practicing what I've been taught. I do get decent casts of
50' and hit the target fairly consistently but he analyzed my technique (or
lack thereof) and had me make some significant changes.

Ok - so now I'm tossing that same *defective* line out there like he was
(well almost as good...). We went over what I've been practicing and in
essence, it was okay to a point but as I was finding out, I was hitting some
limits and then trying to overcompensate for my shortcomings. The devil is
in the details......

I'll be attending a class he holds just about every week to unlearn some of
what I learned in another class. While I initially thought what he was
telling me what I was doing wrong was exaggeration - it proved to be fact.
And after a few minutes of using his suggested techniques, I could not only
see the difference but also feel it in the line.

Needless to say, I kept the Rio line...........and I apologize if I offended
anyone's brand loyalty.

Thanks for your input, it helped me solve the problem,

Bob S.