Leaders with least memory? (Also, wallet suggestion?)

Just lost my leader wallet, and all of my leaders. Before I go out
and by a whole new set, figured I'd get your collective opinions on
your favorite mono-tapered leaders, and leader wallets. But also, let
me describe my experience, and complaints:

I generally use Orvis Super Strong Nylon leaders (usually 9ft, 4x -
6x), and very occasionally their flourocarbon. I love the lines for
their strength. I rarely break off a fish with this stuff. But, one
thing I really hated about this last batch was the memory. Every time
I'd get out a new leader I'd have to use my leader straightener 2-3
times, and even then it still had some curls. I tried out a different
brand today (I believe it was Dai Riki?), and it definitely had less
of a memory issue.

So - what're your favorite leaders, with little memory issues? Have
any of the magazines ever done head-to-head comparisons for this kind
of thing?

Then, for a leader wallet, I also used Orvis'. What I didn't like
about that, was that every time I'd get it wet (which was pretty
frequently), the fabric would take a while to dry. I'd prefer
something that didn't hold water at all, I think. Some kind of vinyl,
perhaps? Thoughts?

Thanks guys...

On Sep 17, 8:39 pm, wrote:
Just lost my leader wallet, and all of my leaders. Before I go out
and by a whole new set, figured I'd get your collective opinions on
your favorite mono-tapered leaders, and leader wallets. But also, let
me describe my experience, and complaints:

I generally use Orvis Super Strong Nylon leaders (usually 9ft, 4x -
6x), and very occasionally their flourocarbon. I love the lines for
their strength. I rarely break off a fish with this stuff. But, one
thing I really hated about this last batch was the memory. Every time
I'd get out a new leader I'd have to use my leader straightener 2-3
times, and even then it still had some curls. I tried out a different
brand today (I believe it was Dai Riki?), and it definitely had less
of a memory issue.

So - what're your favorite leaders, with little memory issues? Have
any of the magazines ever done head-to-head comparisons for this kind
of thing?

Then, for a leader wallet, I also used Orvis'. What I didn't like
about that, was that every time I'd get it wet (which was pretty
frequently), the fabric would take a while to dry. I'd prefer
something that didn't hold water at all, I think. Some kind of vinyl,
perhaps? Thoughts?

Thanks guys...

it is as small as 4 # test.The line is moss green,it works good in
murky water,or on rivers.I have cought a lot of big trout with it .But
mono i use my own,that my son brews?up..but to buy orvis is good 9ft 3
to 6#..It has {ebt} enhanced body technology,super strong.You don't
even have to worie about wind knot's ..i use it on the owens river
alot.And at tim alpers trout ranch.The teeth on the trout is not a
problem eather..

On 18 Sep, 05:39, wrote:
Just lost my leader wallet, and all of my leaders. Before I go out

If you want a good leader wallet, then look at CD carry cases;

http://www.dvd-and-media.com/cdr-sto...arry-cases.htm

http://www.rivierapublishing.co.uk/a...RRY_CASES.html

there are hundreds of types, the above is just a sample. There are
quite a few which are much better for carrying leaders than some of
the purpose built stuff.

All nylon has memory, it is an intrinsic property of such
thermoplastics. The only way to remove memory in kinked or curled
nylon, is to warm it up and stretch it, and then allow it to cool in
that state.

Rubber and leader "leader stretchers", do this by causing friction
when pulled over the nylon, but this may also damage the nylon.

One easy way to straighten leaders which are curled as a result of
storage, is to drop them into a cup of hot coffee etc, and then
stretch them, before cooling. This is especially good at low
temperatures, when the memory tendency is greater anyway.

I like Maxima nylon for many of my leaders, but any of the modern
nylon leaders work quite well. There are only a few nylon producers on
the planet. The various brand names are a result of re-packaging. Some
are a little stiffer at normal temperature than others, that is the
only difference.

TL
MC

The one I use , is similar to this;

http://www.gadgetsuk.com/48-CD-carry-case-p-17012.html

similar types are available at chain stores etc for very little money.

TL
MC

By the way, you can get the maxima leaders here;

http://www.cabelas.com/spodw-1/0000943.shtml

TL
MC

"Mike" wrote in message
oups.com...

All nylon has memory, it is an intrinsic property of such
thermoplastics. The only way to remove memory in kinked or curled
nylon, is to warm it up and stretch it, and then allow it to cool in
that state.
TL
MC


Mike,
I enjoy having that memory in the line with nylon leaders & tippets. For me
it acts as cushion or shock absorber when you're hooked onto a fighting
fish. There were times on my past trip this past July on an Alaskan River,
that some of the rainbows would turn their heads in a split second when
hooked, or come out of the water and shake their heads violently. My friend
on the other hand has used fluorocarbon tippets, and there were quite a few
times he had broken off from violent shakes
I was wondering your take on this?
-tom

On 18 Sep, 15:14, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:


Mike,
I enjoy having that memory in the line with nylon leaders & tippets. For me
it acts as cushion or shock absorber when you're hooked onto a fighting
fish. There were times on my past trip this past July on an Alaskan River,
that some of the rainbows would turn their heads in a split second when
hooked, or come out of the water and shake their heads violently. My friend
on the other hand has used fluorocarbon tippets, and there were quite a few
times he had broken off from violent shakes
I was wondering your take on this?
-tom

There is rather a problem with the nomenclature here. All nylon has
memory, ( as do all thermoplastics). this is what makes them flexible
and elastic, and as this property is intrinsic, it can not be removed.

What happens to nylon line, is that after being stored in coils, or
kinked etc, the line retains the memory of that state, and in order to
remove that state, the memory of the line must be adjusted, by heating
and stretching.

If thermoplastics are bent or stretched beyond their memory capability
to restore themselves, and don´t break, they may lose even the
possibility of restoration in that specific area of the line.The
molecular orientation is damaged.

When one winds nylon line on to a plastic spool under tension for
instance, the line still tries to return to its original state as a
result of its intrinsic memory. This cause the line to contract, as
it was stretched when wound on to the spool. This causes massive
pressure on the spool, and can easily break or deform plastic spools,
but it also programs the memory of the line to remain in tight coils.

The only way to restore the line, is to heat it to a suitable
temperature, and stretch it very slightly, if kept straight and
rapidly cooled, it will stay straight, as the long molecule ( Polymer
chains), have been reoriented. The result is also stronger per se, as
longitudinally oriented molecules are stronger than any other
orientation. The result is also thinner. This is how "super strong"
nylon is made, it is stretched under the application of heat, after
manufacture, and then rapidly cooled. If ordinary is nylon kept
straight, BUT UNDER NO TENSION AT ALL, and allowed to cool naturally,
it will return almost completely to its original state.

The same applies to any thermoplastic. If you pull a piece of
polythene until it deforms, the resulting piece is much stronger when
pulling stress is applied, but it will not deform any further, if
stretched beyond this point, it will simply break.

Fluorocarbon lines are merely pre stretched nylon lines coated with
fluorocarbon. The fluorocarbon compounds used have lesser or no
memory properties, and sudden stress causes them to break, as they can
not extend.

There is no real point in using fluorocarbon lines at all, They are
not less visible to the fish, and they are intrinsically weaker than
any other thermoplastic copolymer ( Nylon is a copolymer) lines, not
least as as a result of their lack of memory, and abrasion resistance.
Their much vaunted sinking capabilities are overrated.

Also, as the dreaded Fortenberry also quite correctly pointed out,
they will last a very long time, as fluorocarbon coated line will not
degrade like ordinary nylon line.

I agree with you up to a point and that is why I also use ordinary
nylon, as it has a considerable degree of elasticity, ( due to
intrinsic memory), and cushions itself to a degree.

However, I don´t like curls and kinks in my leaders, as for some of
the techniques I use, they would cause me to lose a lot of fish, or
prevent correct presentation. So I normally warm my leaders up ( on
stream, in hot coffee etc), and stretch them very slightly, and allow
them to coll, so that they remain staright.

TL
MC

On 18 Sep, 15:45, Mike wrote:


Sorry about the typos there! Trying to make sure my lunch does not
burn, and typing at the same time!

That is also why knots in fluorocarbon nylon are extremely
unreliable. The marketing boys don´t tell you about all this of
course! They tell you to try other knots!

TL
MC

"Mike" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 18 Sep, 15:14, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:


Mike,
I enjoy having that memory in the line with nylon leaders & tippets. For
me
it acts as cushion or shock absorber when you're hooked onto a fighting
fish. There were times on my past trip this past July on an Alaskan
River,
that some of the rainbows would turn their heads in a split second when
hooked, or come out of the water and shake their heads violently. My
friend
on the other hand has used fluorocarbon tippets, and there were quite a
few
times he had broken off from violent shakes
I was wondering your take on this?
-tom

There is rather a problem with the nomenclature here. All nylon has
memory, ( as do all thermoplastics). this is what makes them flexible
and elastic, and as this property is intrinsic, it can not be removed.

What happens to nylon line, is that after being stored in coils, or
kinked etc, the line retains the memory of that state, and in order to
remove that state, the memory of the line must be adjusted, by heating
and stretching.

If thermoplastics are bent or stretched beyond their memory capability
to restore themselves, and don´t break, they may lose even the
possibility of restoration in that specific area of the line.The
molecular orientation is damaged.

When one winds nylon line on to a plastic spool under tension for
instance, the line still tries to return to its original state as a
result of its intrinsic memory. This cause the line to contract, as
it was stretched when wound on to the spool. This causes massive
pressure on the spool, and can easily break or deform plastic spools,
but it also programs the memory of the line to remain in tight coils.

The only way to restore the line, is to heat it to a suitable
temperature, and stretch it very slightly, if kept straight and
rapidly cooled, it will stay straight, as the long molecule ( Polymer
chains), have been reoriented. The result is also stronger per se, as
longitudinally oriented molecules are stronger than any other
orientation. The result is also thinner. This is how "super strong"
nylon is made, it is stretched under the application of heat, after
manufacture, and then rapidly cooled. If ordinary is nylon kept
straight, BUT UNDER NO TENSION AT ALL, and allowed to cool naturally,
it will return almost completely to its original state.

The same applies to any thermoplastic. If you pull a piece of
polythene until it deforms, the resulting piece is much stronger when
pulling stress is applied, but it will not deform any further, if
stretched beyond this point, it will simply break.

Fluorocarbon lines are merely pre stretched nylon lines coated with
fluorocarbon. The fluorocarbon compounds used have lesser or no
memory properties, and sudden stress causes them to break, as they can
not extend.

There is no real point in using fluorocarbon lines at all, They are
not less visible to the fish, and they are intrinsically weaker than
any other thermoplastic copolymer ( Nylon is a copolymer) lines, not
least as as a result of their lack of memory, and abrasion resistance.
Their much vaunted sinking capabilities are overrated.

Also, as the dreaded Fortenberry also quite correctly pointed out,
they will last a very long time, as fluorocarbon coated line will not
degrade like ordinary nylon line.

I agree with you up to a point and that is why I also use ordinary
nylon, as it has a considerable degree of elasticity, ( due to
intrinsic memory), and cushions itself to a degree.

However, I don´t like curls and kinks in my leaders, as for some of
the techniques I use, they would cause me to lose a lot of fish, or
prevent correct presentation. So I normally warm my leaders up ( on
stream, in hot coffee etc), and stretch them very slightly, and allow
them to coll, so that they remain staright.

TL
MC

Thanks for clearing that up.
Yes, I stretch enough to take out the coils when casting, especially
when putting on new leaders and tippets.
I've seen those leather leader strengtheners, but never tried one, I've
just been using my hands to somewhat heat the leader material as I pull, at
least it's enough to take out some of the memory.

oh btw: I do enjoy your contributions to the group on fly-fishing....
-tom

On 18 Sep, 16:20, "Tom Nakashima" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message


Thanks for clearing that up.
Yes, I stretch enough to take out the coils when casting, especially
when putting on new leaders and tippets.
I've seen those leather leader strengtheners, but never tried one, I've
just been using my hands to somewhat heat the leader material as I pull, at
least it's enough to take out some of the memory.

oh btw: I do enjoy your contributions to the group on fly-fishing....
-tom

Quite a few people use the leader straighteners, and they will in fact
work on the heavier nylon of butts etc, but if you use them on thin
points or tippets, thy will invariably damage the line. If you can
manage to straighten your leaders simply by pulling them through your
fingers, then this is the best way to go. It will usually remove curls
etc, if done properly, but ti wont remove kinks etc.

Just stretching the line, as some people seem to think, has no effect,
as the memory is not removed, heat is required to remove it. This
also applies to PVC fly lines. Stretching them as is often advised,
will not remove the memory, and will often only cause cracks in the
coating, and cause it to de-adhere form the non flexible core. To
remove the memory, put the line in very warm water, and then hold it
taut, ( but NOT overstretched) . This will make it perfectly straight
again, and it will remain so when it cools.

oh btw: I do enjoy your contributions to the group on fly-fishing....

I much prefer them myself! But needs must when the devil ( or his
associates!) drives.

TL
MC