OT?... Gap, generation? cultural? give me a Clue

This has been bothering me for over a month, and I don't know of anywhere
I'm more likely to find the answers I seek than here in .. ah... here

I stopped subscribing to any FF magazines about 10 years ago and seldom see
one, but on my last trip of the season to Hot Creek I was sidelined by car
troubles. Sitting in the repair shop for hours got old and I walked into
Mammoth and bought a couple FF mags. As I remembered they were 97%
advertising, 3% the same old **** rehashed

BUT

I was stuck by the Scott ad ... the one of a kid in a chaotically cluttered
room, apparently asleep after downing a few pricey beers and suggestively
stroking his "rod" ... zero, not one word, product information ... just
Scott's name ... clearly meant as an "image ad"

The same mag had one for Simms ( I believe ) where a guy was fishing in the
snow, in a very beautiful place ... it too had no product information and
was what I call "image advertising" That is, the implied message is " if
you buy our **** you can insert yourself into this cool picture"

The Simms ad I "get" ... I love to "see myself" tough enough and lucky
enough to be out fishing is that gorgeous place in the snow ... and I might
fall for the ploy and buy the product.

The Scott ad, however, is totally beyond me.

That is where roff comes in. IF that ad makes you want to own a Scott
rod and "be in the picture" please tell me why ... I'm clueless about what
is appealing ... indeed I find the ad repelling ( I love both my Scott rods,
though ) ... much as the Carl's Jr ads of slightly vulgar and common types
dripping food all over themselves repels rather than attracts me.... I do
NOT want to "be in that picture"

I honestly don't know if this is a generation gap thing ( Scott is spending
BIG bucks running the ad, so the ad must "work" ) or if the "culture" of
modern fly fishing has greatly changed, and what repels people of my nature,
that seek calmness, peace, and Nature from FF, attracts those spending the
bucks ..... or what, ..... but I AM very curious ... and eager to hear what
others see in the Scott ad to make it attractive

... it makes me want to hide my Scott rods G

Larry L wrote:

This has been bothering me for over a month, and I don't know of anywhere
I'm more likely to find the answers I seek than here in .. ah... here

The Scott ad, however, is totally beyond me.

You're getting old Larry!

Willi

You're getting old Larry!
Willi

Larry, I've noted that as far as most product advertising stands, I'm no
longer in the preferred demographic group. Nor, I believe, are any of us
who are now middle-aged or older.


--
Stev Lenon 91B20 '68-'69
Drowning flies to Darkstar

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/stevglo/i...age92kword.htm

Larry L. writes:

snip

I was stuck by the Scott ad ... the one of a kid in a chaotically cluttered
room, apparently asleep after downing a few pricey beers and suggestively
stroking his "rod" ... zero, not one word, product information ... just
Scott's name ... clearly meant as an "image ad"

The same mag had one for Simms ( I believe ) where a guy was fishing in the
snow, in a very beautiful place ... it too had no product information and
was what I call "image advertising" That is, the implied message is " if
you buy our **** you can insert yourself into this cool picture"

The Simms ad I "get" ... I love to "see myself" tough enough and lucky
enough to be out fishing is that gorgeous place in the snow ... and I might
fall for the ploy and buy the product.

The Scott ad, however, is totally beyond me.

That is where roff comes in. IF that ad makes you want to own a Scott
rod and "be in the picture" please tell me why ... I'm clueless about what
is appealing ... indeed I find the ad repelling ( I love both my Scott rods,
though ) ... much as the Carl's Jr ads of slightly vulgar and common types
dripping food all over themselves repels rather than attracts me.... I do
NOT want to "be in that picture"

I honestly don't know if this is a generation gap thing ( Scott is spending
BIG bucks running the ad, so the ad must "work" ) or if the "culture" of
modern fly fishing has greatly changed, and what repels people of my nature,
that seek calmness, peace, and Nature from FF, attracts those spending the
bucks ..... or what, ..... but I AM very curious ... and eager to hear what
others see in the Scott ad to make it attractive

... it makes me want to hide my Scott rods G

If it's the add I am thinking about, it reminds me of many roffians at many
different claves. Although no one I know besides Peter sleeps with his rod,
the picture you describe, if I remember it correctly, is a man asleep on a
make-shift bed (cot) with one or two cases of beer (Heineken?) on the floor in
what is obviously a fishing camp. Seems like he is not drunk, but asleep
happily after catching many fish with his wonderful Scott rod. Sorta roffian,
actually.

Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
Larry L. writes:

snip

I was stuck by the Scott ad ... the one of a kid in a chaotically
cluttered
room, apparently asleep after downing a few pricey beers and suggestively
stroking his "rod" ... zero, not one word, product information ... just
Scott's name ... clearly meant as an "image ad"

The same mag had one for Simms ( I believe ) where a guy was fishing in
the
snow, in a very beautiful place ... it too had no product information and
was what I call "image advertising" That is, the implied message is "
if
you buy our **** you can insert yourself into this cool picture"

The Simms ad I "get" ... I love to "see myself" tough enough and lucky
enough to be out fishing is that gorgeous place in the snow ... and I
might
fall for the ploy and buy the product.

The Scott ad, however, is totally beyond me.

That is where roff comes in. IF that ad makes you want to own a Scott
rod and "be in the picture" please tell me why ... I'm clueless about
what
is appealing ... indeed I find the ad repelling ( I love both my Scott
rods,
though ) ... much as the Carl's Jr ads of slightly vulgar and common
types
dripping food all over themselves repels rather than attracts me.... I do
NOT want to "be in that picture"

I honestly don't know if this is a generation gap thing ( Scott is
spending
BIG bucks running the ad, so the ad must "work" ) or if the "culture" of
modern fly fishing has greatly changed, and what repels people of my
nature,
that seek calmness, peace, and Nature from FF, attracts those spending
the
bucks ..... or what, ..... but I AM very curious ... and eager to hear
what
others see in the Scott ad to make it attractive

... it makes me want to hide my Scott rods G

If it's the add I am thinking about, it reminds me of many roffians at
many
different claves. Although no one I know besides Peter sleeps with his
rod,
the picture you describe, if I remember it correctly, is a man asleep on a
make-shift bed (cot) with one or two cases of beer (Heineken?) on the
floor in
what is obviously a fishing camp. Seems like he is not drunk, but asleep
happily after catching many fish with his wonderful Scott rod. Sorta
roffian,
actually.

Dave

Having met many ROFFians at many different claves I can tell you for a fact
it that don't matter worth a damn which ad you're talking about. It ain't
the guys sleeping with their OWN rods you got to worry about!

Wolfgang
sick *******s.

"Larry L" wrote:
....snip...

Long ago I worked for an advertising agency, and learned something
about this stuff. Advertising campaigns are based on "reach" and
"frequency". You want to reach as large a percentage of the target
market as practical, and have them see the ads as frequently as
possible. A picture that catches the eye and makes you stop long
enough to read the name of the manufacturer is a success. Other ads
will describe the products and hook you on the goodies.

Chas
remove fly fish to reply
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/w...ome.html-.html

"Chas Wade" wrote

possible. A picture that catches the eye and makes you stop long
enough to read the name of the manufacturer is a success.

Anyone in business has both satisfied customers and ... the other type G
.... when people would mention " he said some nasty things about you" ...
relative to my dog training biz I'd reply, " I don't care what they say, as
long as they mention my name." Is this the same idea?

My question about the Scott pic really revolves around the fact that if that
were a real picture of ME I'd want to burn it, certainly never show it to
fly fishers I respect .... it's "feel" is opposite of the "feel" that I seek
from FF

Dave's interpretation as "fishing lodge, successful day" is something I
never got looking at it. ( If the lodge is that messy, I hope it is damn
cheap :-) But, if a high % of guys see the ad as Dave suggests, then the
ad
"makes sense" .... however Dave's view cements my past decision to avoid
claves G


BTW, I have a lifelong history of interest in such things, not advertising
per se, but communication and media. In college I had a professor that
was nearly obsessed with speculating what changes in media were going to do
to WHAT we think. Bucky Fuller was on campus one year, got interested in
the "experimental college" I was in, and I spent the most exciting year+ of
my life building "media domes"
and studying and thinking about the powers and limitations of various
media, meshing the inputs of these two men on my young brain

Anyway, I have a kind of hobby of thinking about such things, to this day.
Example, one reason I still show up here is because I find it interesting to
observe how this media affects the content of what can be and is,
communicated ..... another example, I think much of the recent ( 15 years or
so ) shift in political lean is simply because, in general, "the
conservative" message is better suited to sound bite media than the other
side's ...

When I see an odd or "different" attempt at communication that I
don't "get" it stirs an intellectual need to find out more ....

thanks for your answer

"Larry L" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

SNIP
When I see an odd or "different" attempt at communication that I
don't "get" it stirs an intellectual need to find out more ....

SNIP

If one is not in the "target group" then many advertisements simply don´t
make much sense. Advertising has generally got to the stage where very
many people realise that they are being manipulated in some way, but they
rarely know just how.

Even the "informative" ads are so full of hype, that they rarely make any
real sense. This is also exacerbated by the fact that the manufacturers,
through there advertising companies, psychologists etc, play on the
ignorance of their target groups. All sorts of arrant nonsense and pseudo
science is used in these endeavours. Apparently, it works far better than
just giving the facts in a sensible manner. Not least, because a large
section of the target group is not in a position to understand these in any
case, and is actually far more impressed by the hype.

For many firms, simply the exposure of their names to a particular sector of
the public seems to satisfy them. If this can be done in such a way that
the name "sticks", then this is of course very successful. As you and others
mentioned, as long as this recollection is not strongly negative, then it
works simply because one recognises the name, and for no other reason.

It can also boomerang to some extent. Due to massive advertising, the name
"Hoover" came to be synonymous with "vacuum cleaner". Other phrases,
jingles and catchwords from advertising capaigns have in the meantime become
part of the various languages in which they were produced. In many cases
without people even noticing.

Interesting to note, that the effect of the ad you mention, was strong
enough to make you think quite a lot about it! This too is manipulation.

TL
MC

"Mike Connor" Mike-Connor wrote in message

Interesting to note, that the effect of the ad you mention, was strong
enough to make you think quite a lot about it! This too is manipulation.



yes, I've been aware that they "got me" at that level G

but I'm a grumpy old ass and, although I'm not saying I won't buy Scott, I
AM saying that the Carl's Jr "stick in your mind by being gross" ads HAVE
cost them my business They used to be my fast food chain of choice, based
on product ... but I haven't stopped at one in several years in invisible
protest against bringing yet more digusting material into my home via the
boobtube

thanks for the reply Mike and thanks for the heads up on the rod handle deal
.... I've finished all 7 rods I intend to modify ...

"Larry L" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...

"Mike Connor" Mike-Connor wrote in message

Interesting to note, that the effect of the ad you mention, was strong
enough to make you think quite a lot about it! This too is
manipulation.



yes, I've been aware that they "got me" at that level G

but I'm a grumpy old ass and, although I'm not saying I won't buy Scott, I
AM saying that the Carl's Jr "stick in your mind by being gross" ads HAVE
cost them my business They used to be my fast food chain of choice,
based
on product ... but I haven't stopped at one in several years in invisible
protest against bringing yet more digusting material into my home via the
boobtube

thanks for the reply Mike and thanks for the heads up on the rod handle
deal
... I've finished all 7 rods I intend to modify ...



I must admit that I also avoid businesses and products that try to "hard
sell" or "bull****", whether it be with advertisements or attitudes.

This was actually always my main bone of contention with Gehrke.

Be sure to let us know how you get on with the rods.

TL
MC