And speaking of the, um, "arts"...

A quick quiz on blue collar, Joe Sixpa...er, Lunchbox:

After 32 years on the Ford Assembly Plant line, Joe Lunchbox and the
missus go out every Friday night to the Dew Drop Inn to have a cold one
or two and listen to the jukebox. They are more likely to play:

A) Smells Like Funk
B) The Devil Went Down To Georgia

On Saturday night, they go to the movies. They are more likely to be
more interested in paying 10 bucks each to see:

A) King Lear, starring Gwenyth Paltrow
B) Whatever schlock Susan Sarandon might be in
C) The snackbar commercial repeated for 2 hours

On the way to the movies, they hear two stories on the news. Which is
more likely to upset them:

A) John McCain doesn't know off the top of his head how many houses his
wife's family's business interests, in which he has no role, might own
when suddenly asked
B) The Dems have had to import huge super-stretch limos, which get
about 6 feet to the gallon, from around the country to Denver so they
don't have to ride to their "green" convention to bitch about oil
companies in things like small, plain Fords

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/08/2...ons/index.html

HTH,
R
....and when told that Fergie and Will i am were going to be at the
convention, Biden called McCain to brag about royal support. McCain told
him that she is technically "ex-royalty," and although he did concede
that the future king was a coup, he wasn't sure why the kid cared one
way or the other...

yea, that's a laugh....my parking went up 350% this
am in downtown denver.....thanx barrack hussein obama....

what a joke.......



" their green convention "





On Aug 25, 11:05*am, wrote:
A quick quiz on blue collar, Joe Sixpa...er, Lunchbox:

After 32 years on the Ford Assembly Plant line, Joe Lunchbox and the
missus go out every Friday night to the Dew Drop Inn to have a cold one
or two and listen to the jukebox. *They are more likely to play:

A) *Smells Like Funk
B) *The Devil Went Down To Georgia

On Saturday night, they go to the movies. *They are more likely to be
more interested in paying 10 bucks each to see:

A) King Lear, starring Gwenyth Paltrow
B) Whatever schlock Susan Sarandon might be in
C) The snackbar commercial repeated for 2 hours

On the way to the movies, they hear two stories on the news. *Which is
more likely to upset them:

A) *John McCain doesn't know off the top of his head how many houses his
wife's family's business interests, in which he has no role, might own
when suddenly asked
B) *The Dems have had to import huge super-stretch limos, which get
about 6 feet to the gallon, from around the country to Denver so they
don't have to ride to their "green" convention to bitch about oil
companies in things like small, plain Fords

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/08/2...ventions/index...

HTH,
R
...and when told that Fergie and Will i am were going to be at the
convention, Biden called McCain to brag about royal support. McCain told
him that she is technically "ex-royalty," and although he did concede
that the future king was a coup, he wasn't sure why the kid cared one
way or the other...

"~^ beancounter ~^" wrote in message
...
yea, that's a laugh....my parking went up 350% this
am in downtown denver.....thanx barrack hussein obama....

what a joke.......



" their green convention "

Yeah, I heard that Obama was getting a cut of the parking racket in Denver.

Op



On Aug 25, 11:05 am, wrote:
A quick quiz on blue collar, Joe Sixpa...er, Lunchbox:

After 32 years on the Ford Assembly Plant line, Joe Lunchbox and the
missus go out every Friday night to the Dew Drop Inn to have a cold one
or two and listen to the jukebox. They are more likely to play:

A) Smells Like Funk
B) The Devil Went Down To Georgia

On Saturday night, they go to the movies. They are more likely to be
more interested in paying 10 bucks each to see:

A) King Lear, starring Gwenyth Paltrow
B) Whatever schlock Susan Sarandon might be in
C) The snackbar commercial repeated for 2 hours

On the way to the movies, they hear two stories on the news. Which is
more likely to upset them:

A) John McCain doesn't know off the top of his head how many houses his
wife's family's business interests, in which he has no role, might own
when suddenly asked
B) The Dems have had to import huge super-stretch limos, which get
about 6 feet to the gallon, from around the country to Denver so they
don't have to ride to their "green" convention to bitch about oil
companies in things like small, plain Fords

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/08/2...ventions/index...

HTH,
R
...and when told that Fergie and Will i am were going to be at the
convention, Biden called McCain to brag about royal support. McCain told
him that she is technically "ex-royalty," and although he did concede
that the future king was a coup, he wasn't sure why the kid cared one
way or the other...

On Aug 25, 1:12*pm, "~^ beancounter ~^" wrote:
yea, that's a laugh....my parking went up 350% this
am in downtown denver.....thanx barrack hussein obama....

what a joke.......


Hey, what happened to Bill, I thought everything was his fault
(I figured, with all the practice you folks have had, you'd be able
to keep your mythologies straight. Or is that scapegoats?).

wrote in message
...

once again, a trivial aside.....man, Rick, you're slipping
(I can just hear Wolfgang's response to that!)......

Frankly, I suspect Joe and wife haven't got the 10 bucks to go to the
movies, since the economy, which has been purely driven by short-term stock
returns since about, say, the election of Ronald Reagan, closed the plant a
few years ago. Since the Bush Jr tax cuts, governments have been forced to
raise pretty much every fee and levy, so those beers may be pinching the
budget a bit, too, so probably, they'll listen to whatever is on the
jukebox, not having the money to drop a buck or two into it. Finally, upon
hearing the two stories, I can guarantee, based upon the local Central PA
newspaper letter feedback, one will really **** them off. And, trust me, my
friend, it ain't the one about SUVs. Get out there amongst the folks, Rick.
Have Settlesworth drive you up to the Upper Midwest, or here, to Central PA
or up in coal country. People are hurting, and they're ****ed. Now, I'm not
saying that people will flock to Obama over that fact(Hillary proved that,
adequately), but I will tell you that, in general, the GOP brand is about as
well-regarded in some of these places as two day old dog ****. People may
take a while to figure it out, but lots now see that they've been had by
Republican fat cats fleecing them. The big get-even is starting. It may not
even peak this year, but it's coming.
And, no matter what end of the economic spectrum one occupies, we had all
better hope that the trend of a polarized ''haves vs have-nots" nation,
growing ever farther apart, ends soon, or the whole freaking lot of us are
doomed. But, then again you've heard this whole rap before from me, right?
Tom

p.s. the above does not discuss, but certainly doesn't dismiss the fact that
lots of folks on both sides of the aisle have contributed to this sorry-ass
situation. It is just that the charge was led by Reagan, and cheerled by
largely
Republicans ever since.......

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:38:52 GMT, "Tom Littleton"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .

once again, a trivial aside.....man, Rick, you're slipping
(I can just hear Wolfgang's response to that!)......

Frankly, I suspect Joe and wife haven't got the 10 bucks to go to the
movies, since the economy, which has been purely driven by short-term stock
returns since about, say, the election of Ronald Reagan, closed the plant a
few years ago. Since the Bush Jr tax cuts, governments have been forced to
raise pretty much every fee and levy, so those beers may be pinching the
budget a bit, too, so probably, they'll listen to whatever is on the
jukebox, not having the money to drop a buck or two into it. Finally, upon
hearing the two stories, I can guarantee, based upon the local Central PA
newspaper letter feedback, one will really **** them off. And, trust me, my
friend, it ain't the one about SUVs. Get out there amongst the folks, Rick.

You ever been to George County, MS? It's pretty hard to get more
amongst the folks than there - you got Lucedale in the east and Benndale
in the west, and the entire middle is, well, George County, MS...of
course, so is the east and the west...

Have Settlesworth drive you up to the Upper Midwest, or here, to Central PA
or up in coal country. People are hurting, and they're ****ed. Now, I'm not
saying that people will flock to Obama over that fact(Hillary proved that,
adequately), but I will tell you that, in general, the GOP brand is about as
well-regarded in some of these places as two day old dog ****. People may
take a while to figure it out, but lots now see that they've been had by
Republican fat cats fleecing them. The big get-even is starting. It may not
even peak this year, but it's coming.
And, no matter what end of the economic spectrum one occupies, we had all
better hope that the trend of a polarized ''haves vs have-nots" nation,
growing ever farther apart, ends soon, or the whole freaking lot of us are
doomed. But, then again you've heard this whole rap before from me, right?
Tom

p.s. the above does not discuss, but certainly doesn't dismiss the fact that
lots of folks on both sides of the aisle have contributed to this sorry-ass
situation. It is just that the charge was led by Reagan, and cheerled by
largely
Republicans ever since.......

I disagree with a lot of the above insofar as it'll all get laid
(solely) on the GOP. I think most people don't really _know_ who
"fleeced them" (and really, most such folks were not actually fleeced in
the least, or if they were, they willingly and greedily participated in
causing their own problems - for example, folks who went out and bought
property they should have never bought, much less been allowed to
finance), but they blame it on politicians in general. Look to
Congress' approval rating versus Bush's - Bush ain't winning any
popularity contests, but compared to Congress, he's doing pretty well.

IAC, what I think you're seeing is more of a "who's the least bad"
rather than "who's the better choice." And frankly, I don't see either
Obama or McCain as the clear choice for "Joe Sixpack," which ever way
they feel.

TC,
R

wrote in message
...
You ever been to George County, MS? It's pretty hard to get more
amongst the folks than there - you got Lucedale in the east and Benndale
in the west, and the entire middle is, well, George County, MS...of
course, so is the east and the west...

ok, I think I see a point coming here.....

I disagree with a lot of the above insofar as it'll all get laid
(solely) on the GOP. I think most people don't really _know_ who
"fleeced them" (and really, most such folks were not actually fleeced in
the least, or if they were, they willingly and greedily participated in
causing their own problems - for example, folks who went out and bought
property they should have never bought, much less been allowed to
finance), but they blame it on politicians in general. Look to
Congress' approval rating versus Bush's - Bush ain't winning any
popularity contests, but compared to Congress, he's doing pretty well.

IAC, what I think you're seeing is more of a "who's the least bad"
rather than "who's the better choice." And frankly, I don't see either
Obama or McCain as the clear choice for "Joe Sixpack," which ever way
they feel.

As is often the case, we can easily agree to disagree, but I see that you
aren't really arguing my key point. Which is:
If you think the working public, as a whole, doesn't react MUCH more
viscerally to John McCain losing track of his houses, compared to some
esoteric BS about convention transportation, you have lost touch. As I've
stated, consistently, one of the things that frightens me, looking at the
longer view, is an America pulling apart rich from poor, with no gradation.
Such situations, historically, lead to either repression or revolution, and
I wish neither on my descendants.
For me, the questions this election are simple:
1.Can Obama pull together the best and brightest in the nation to attack a
multitude of problems we face, and undo a host of problems created in the
past 8 years(mainly due to a disdain by Republicans for intelligence, in
deference to ideologic purity)?
2. Can Obama use the force of his personality to pull the nation together,
post-election, to develop consensus on the host of common interests held in
the nation, and move forward as a nation?
3. Does Obama truly understand the problems, and show the willingness to
take advice in order to solve them(that is what a true Executive does, is it
not?)?

my answer to all the above is yes. I am convinced of that.
Could John McCain do the same? Perhaps, but I have grave doubts. His age
leaves him woefully out of touch with anything close to cutting edge
thought. His focus on the military point of view leaves him myopic regarding
most other social and economic matters(party, he admits as much). His
temperment has, at times, been shown to be violently confrontational, when
challenged. Finally, to secure his nomination, he has sold out to some of
the same folks that brought us this divisive sack o **** we call US
politics, at present. Perhaps, Obama's key strength, for me at least, is
that he took down one of the other divisive centers(the Clinton camp), and
owes the hard right nor the traditional Dem elite very little.
.....as a friend of mine says, YMMV,
Tom

On Aug 25, 6:57*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
....... As I've
stated, consistently, one of the things that frightens me, looking at the
longer view, is an America pulling apart rich from poor, with no gradation.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:20:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

the relatively small
number of the rich, the relatively small number of upper-middle income
professionals, and the mass of the rest, hanging on with little or no
margin between them and economic disaster.

What a bunch of redistribute-the-wealth-caca. Yes, there are the
rich, and there are the upper middle class, and the middle class, and
yes, the poor. I have worked in a food pantry in an economically
depressed city (Lowell, MA) for five years and I have not seen any
increase in clients in that time. In fact, it is the same people,
week after week after week. New ones come in, but they soon disappear
because they have found jobs. Unemployment rates are about the same
now as they were during the Clinton years, as is the inflation and
interest rates.

I give enough of my time, talents and treasures to this country.
Obama wants more? Well, if he gets a tax increase, I hope the hell
you are around so I can say "I told you so" when the bottom falls out.

Redistrubute the wealth, my ass. Go and live in China, Russia, or
Cuba if you want that ****. See how fast you like the present system.

Fool.


--
Dave

On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:20:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Aug 25, 6:57*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
....... As I've
stated, consistently, one of the things that frightens me, looking at the
longer view, is an America pulling apart rich from poor, with no gradation.
Such situations, historically, lead to either repression or revolution, and
I wish neither on my descendants. .....


Bush's tenure has, from early on, reminded me of the traditional
South American Caudillo "presidency" with lots of bluster, a weakened
currency, a weakened economy, military spending grossly
disporportionate to the wealth of the nation, a refusal (inability?)
to stand up to powerful economic factions, and a population
increasingly divided into three economic strata: the relatively small
number of the rich, the relatively small number of upper-middle income
professionals, and the mass of the rest, hanging on with little or no
margin between them and economic disaster.

Not really. While the site below might not be, um, of your tastes, the
issues and the numbers/data presented in this article are worth at least
considering:

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/bg1791.cfm

Granted, the US might be ranked below your traditional poverty-stricken
hellholes of the world...like Bermuda, the Caymans, Liechtenstein,
Luxembourg and Switzerland...but even so, the World Bank ranks the US
pretty high:

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/D...rces/GNIPC.pdf

And as an aside:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-in-Kenya.html

Of course, his situation isn't Obama's fault, but I'd say that if Obama
can't (or won't) help his family first, it's pretty tough to feel secure
in his ability (or willingness) to help strangers...like the, um, "the
mass of the rest, hanging on with little or no margin between them and
economic disaster" in the good ol' US of A. And no, I don't see anyone
of the GOP honchos rushing to his brother's aid, either.

TC,
R