To Orvis or not to orvis, that is the question?

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple

Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Well, if you're into business ethics, Orvis got into bed with Wally World
whilst you were getting your ass shot off. How's that for gratitude.
By the way, welcome back to the real world. If you end up TDY to DC, give
me a hollar. Gots some water that needs fishin'. And, by the way, thank
you.

--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

Tim Apple wrote:

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. ...

I think the "beef" with Orvis is more reverse snobbery than anything
of substance. Orvis presents themselves as upscale and markets their
products the same way. Tweed and cardigans, bird dog asleep in front
of the fireplace while the master of the house ties flies with a pipe
in his mouth and a brandy at the elbow. This image is, of course,
anathema to most of roff. All the fly fishermen here drive rusted out
old Dodge Darts, wear clothes from the Goodwill bin, and fish with old
fly rods purchased for six ninety-five at Sears back in the fifties.

Like you, I have a used Orvis rod, a 7'6" Superfine, that I am very
happy with.

--
Ken Fortenberry

The need to bash Orvis seems to be endemic among sophomore flyfishermen.
They make some good stuff and some not so good stuff, and they market a
bunch of stuff you don't need. Trying to turn a profit doesn't make them
evil.

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 14:11:42 -0500, Tim Apple
wrote:

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple

Orvis gear, generally, is good gear. Here's a way you may wish to look
at it: Take two rod blanks, both made at the same plant. Then send one
to "Bob's House O' Rods" and the other to Orvis. Bob, who is an honest
businessman, finishes his rods with decent, but not fancy, fittings and
simply sells them out of his small shop. He offers no warranty other
than that covering his own work. He is upfront about it all, saying,
basically, that it is what is: a reasonably-priced fishing tool. Now
Orvis takes the same blank and finishes it with the finest of fittings,
offers what is essentially a "no questions asked" return policy, markets
it through its catalogs, websites, dealers, etc. Of course, and quite
properly, the Orvis rod will be considerably more expensive.

Is the Orvis version a "better" rod? If the buyer thinks it is for
them, then it is in a purely subjective manner. One could argue that it
is a "better" rod because of the higher quality of the fittings or the
better warranty, and in that narrow objective context, they'd have a
legitimate point. But things like "better," "nice," "fantastic,"
"crappy," and such are always, in practice, subjective.

This might sound smart-assed, but it isn't meant to: only you can say if
a piece of gear is "good" for you. Can you afford it? If so, then the
only real hurdle is overcome. Do you like the feel, the action, the
cast? If so, that is answered . Do you like the look of it? If so,
then that is, IMO, just frosting on the cake when it comes to tools, but
you may think it an important point.

HTH,
R

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 14:11:42 -0500, Tim Apple
wrote:

You know, since I've been flyfishing I've heard allot of smack talk
against
Orvis, not but a little while ago I became the owner of a used Orvis rod,
and I think it's one of the best casting rods I own. I went to Bass Pro
today and looked at some of the mid range orvis rods, and it seems for
rods
in the 100-200 dollar price range, the orvis rods looked better all in
all
and seemed to use nicer hardware. So the question really is, what is the
beef? Is it strictly a stereotype....i.e the Orvis Boy....Or is the stuff
crap, because it seems pretty much like damn nice equipment to me?

Tim Apple

Orvis gear, generally, is good gear. Here's a way you may wish to look
at it: Take two rod blanks, both made at the same plant. Then send one
to "Bob's House O' Rods" and the other to Orvis. Bob, who is an honest
businessman, finishes his rods with decent, but not fancy, fittings and
simply sells them out of his small shop. He offers no warranty other
than that covering his own work. He is upfront about it all, saying,
basically, that it is what is: a reasonably-priced fishing tool. Now
Orvis takes the same blank and finishes it with the finest of fittings,
offers what is essentially a "no questions asked" return policy, markets
it through its catalogs, websites, dealers, etc. Of course, and quite
properly, the Orvis rod will be considerably more expensive.

Is the Orvis version a "better" rod? If the buyer thinks it is for
them, then it is in a purely subjective manner. One could argue that it
is a "better" rod because of the higher quality of the fittings or the
better warranty, and in that narrow objective context, they'd have a
legitimate point. But things like "better," "nice," "fantastic,"
"crappy," and such are always, in practice, subjective.

This might sound smart-assed, but it isn't meant to: only you can say if
a piece of gear is "good" for you. Can you afford it? If so, then the
only real hurdle is overcome. Do you like the feel, the action, the
cast? If so, that is answered . Do you like the look of it? If so,
then that is, IMO, just frosting on the cake when it comes to tools, but
you may think it an important point.

HTH,
R

Unless something has changed dramatically in the last year or so, Orvis
designs its own blanks and manufactures them in Manchester. The only
exception to this would be the new Wally World rods. Whether you like the
action or not is entirely subjective. I have several Orvis rods, and like
most of them. Unfortunately, as I have fished with two of them, I have
discovered that I really don't like those two particular rods, even though
they cast great at the shop. The only real way to fully evaluate a rod is to
take it to the river for a few trips.

Jim Ray

Jim wrote:

... The only real way to fully evaluate a rod is to
take it to the river for a few trips.

That's a bunch of hooey. An experienced caster can take a fly rod
out back of the fly shop, cast it and fully evaluate it in five or
ten minutes ... or less.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Ken Fortenberry" wrote in message
gy.com...
Jim wrote:

... The only real way to fully evaluate a rod is to
take it to the river for a few trips.

That's a bunch of hooey. An experienced caster can take a fly rod
out back of the fly shop, cast it and fully evaluate it in five or
ten minutes ... or less.

--
Ken Fortenberry


My local shop doesn't have a stocked pond out back. The rods cast fine. One
of the things I dislike about them is that the tip is so fast, I tend to
snap a lot of tippets on the water. Don't have that problem with other rods
I own. Not sure that this is something possible to evaluate except under
actual fishing conditions. But you are correct about evaluating its casting
characteristics - a few casts and I am pretty sure whether I like the action
or not.

Jim Ray

From: Greg Pavlov

The trick, in many cases, is to
bypass the dealer if necessary and go directly to
the company.

Absolutely. I am not "Orvis Boy", (is he one of the superheroes?), but I do own
several Orvis prducts. I had a problem with one set of two year old waders I
got online, but I am within a reasonable, (2.5 hr), driving distance of their
corporate HQ in Manchester. I drove up there, brought the waders into the
company store, and explained the problem to the young man at the flyfishing
counter. He checked the size and brought out a new pair. There was a four year
depreciating warranty on the waders, so I pulled out my wallet, expecting to
pay half of the purchase price. He said, "No charge, waders aren't supposed to
leak." I call that good customer service. I have had no problem with the
replacement waders, or any of the other Orvis products I own.

I suspect, however, if I had gone the mail order replacement route, they would
have charged me, and there likely would have been a long wait, and I wouldn't
have fished the Battenkill that afternoon.{;-)


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

Ken writes:

That's a bunch of hooey. An experienced caster can take a fly rod
out back of the fly shop, cast it and fully evaluate it in five or
ten minutes ... or less.

if you had thrown in the caveats that:
1.Said caster could evaluate it fully with
the given line type and weight at hand
2. Said caster could evaluate the CASTING
(as opposed to fishing) qualities of the rod
and
3. casting quality is but a small portion of
the overall nature of a rod.
then, I might have agreed. That said, some rods take time for one to adjust to.
Some rods with limited casting ranges are great fishing tools for certain
intended purposes.
In the final analysis, the qualities of a flyrod are WAY more subtle that
casting qualities, and of such a personal nature I would hesitate to steer
anyone toward any given rod maker or especially specific models.
Tom
p.s. Just play with lots of rods, buy one or two and enjoy. If you don't like
the rod, that is why they created EBay....unload it, and try something else.