Gloom & Doom on the Missourri this summer

I went to the Pat Barnes TU meeting last weds. They had a state
biologist there to talk about fish counts WD and NZ mud snails in
the Mo basin including the Smith.

While things could be worse, they re not great. Fish count was down
again, under the 30 yr avg for the first time in many years. The
mortality count for WD in all the tribs was 100%. Also there is the
begining of the mud snail infestation at the most popular put in
points.

There was grumbling about the pelicans but there was talk that they
eat mainly small fish tho then they re eating the small trout too.
The biggest problem is of course the continuing drought. Snow pack
around the state is running around 50% . The resavoirs have not filled
at all this winter. The Mo has a guarrenteed flow of 2800 CFS which
is really minimal at best. But if things get worse they can declare an
emergency and then that rule is suspended. It was difficult fishing at
that level last year. The danger of fires is high.

The SMith is in even worse shape tho without the WD problem. The fish
count has dropped to some of the lowest levels ever. The state is still
in the stone age as far as hydrology and can t quite get ahold of
the idea that new wells close to the river drain the aquifier which
fills the river.... Im not floating the Smith this year.

SO if you are thinking about comming to MT and especially the Mo come
early and forget about August and probably Sept. The only good news is
that the rising fishing pressure is waning as the word is getting
out. The Mo is now a tough technical river . Gone are the days of
massive indescriminate pods feeding every couple hundred yards. You
re now lucky to find rising fish .

MT

"Mark Tinsky" wrote in message
...

snip

...Fish count was down
again, under the 30 yr avg for the first time in many years...

and snip some more

I snipped the rest because I'm in no position to argue with any of it. As a
matter of fact, I'm not inclined to argue with the above either. However,
if you think about it (or if you don't) that HAS TO happen. Good thing,
too.

Wolfgang
who knows that a billion or two fish per mile would smell funny.......and
could lead to some kind of nordic ragnarok or something

"Wolfgang" wrote:

"Mark Tinsky" wrote in message
...

snip

...Fish count was down
again, under the 30 yr avg for the first time in many years...

and snip some more

I snipped the rest because I'm in no position to argue with any of it.
As a
matter of fact, I'm not inclined to argue with the above either.
However,
if you think about it (or if you don't) that HAS TO happen. Good
thing,
too.


Being less than average for the first time in many years means the
population has plateaued, as you say, that's not in itself a bad thing.
Now if it were the lowest in thirty years it might be cause for
concern. The other stuff is a set of developing problems we're forced
to watch with nothing much we can do.

Chas
remove fly fish to reply
http://home.comcast.net/~chas.wade/w...ome.html-.html
San Juan Pictures at:
http://home.comcast.net/~chasepike/wsb/index.html

"Mark Tinsky" wrote


While things could be worse, they re not great.

A few years back I decided it was time to semi-retire and start spending
some long periods fly fishing each summer. This has been a dream for years.
My job has taken me to Montdahoming most summers, and I've fished many
'famous' places, but my fishing has always been stuck between other things I
wanted to get done on those trips, nearly always with a "gotta quit by 'noon
and meet the clients" hanging over my head. Fishing never satisfies me when
it's on a schedule, indeed you can quote me, "If you have to check your
watch, you ain't really fishing." I've longed for a more intimate, in
depth relationship with some places I dearly love, time to just sit, watch
and learn.

I've been very fortunate in life and although I don't have too many of
Wolfgang's shiny nickels to rub together, I have spent a large percentage of
my time in life doing things I loved and really wanted to do. Now it is
time for me to concentrate on fulfilling my desires to learn more about
places like Silver Creek, Henry's Fork, the Firehole, the Madison and the
Missouri.

As you may guess, from my posts, catching fish is only a small part of my
reason for fly fishing. Mainly, I love the immersion in Nature and Her
processes and I love the learning.

But, that said, I admit (shamefully) that I'm a bit ****ed at
whatever god it is that has decided to make nearly every one of my favorite
fishin' holes go into decline coinciding with me finally having the time to
really pursue my love for them. Seems to me that the gods could have just
as easily arranged for now and the next few years to be glory times of
plentiful fish, record hatches and ... small crowds g. I know I'm
being greedy, yet, somehow it just don't seem fair .... (picture a fat old
man making a pouty, spoiled brat style, little stomp with his foot :-)

..................................................

Gloom and doom or not, I plan to go to the Missouri again this summer for a
week or two. I'll have a couple extra kickboats with me if anybody cares to
join me and help with shuttle.

"Chas Wade" wrote in message
...

Being less than average for the first time in many years means the
population has plateaued, as you say, that's not in itself a bad thing.

I've got no argument with that. I will only add that in itself it is not
even necessarily an interesting thing.

Now if it were the lowest in thirty years it might be cause for
concern.

"Might", of course, being the crucial term

The other stuff is a set of developing problems we're forced
to watch with nothing much we can do.

I'm not familiar enough with the ecology or the politics of the area to
offer anything substantive but, if it's like most places, you are probably
right......and that's a sad thing.

Wolfgang
maybe y'all should come up here and fish.......we've got plenty of
water......and flies.

"Larry L" wrote in message
...

...I don't have too many of
Wolfgang's shiny nickels to rub together...

Well, I haven't exactly cornered the market, but I'd be happy to send a
hundred or so if you'll give me an address.

Wolfgang
hell, the rest of that post was worth at least that much.

Mark Tinsky wrote:
I went to the Pat Barnes TU meeting last weds. They had a state
biologist there to talk about fish counts WD and NZ mud snails in
the Mo basin including the Smith.



That's too bad Mark. Introduced species can cause serious problems. Here
in Colorado, we have our first outbreak of snail infestations. Right now
it's limited to one small watershed, but its spread seems likely. We've
had widespread WD for a considerable time. From my experience, it seems
that in many watersheds the Rainbows have begun to develop some
resistance. On some watersheds that had the Rainbow population almost
completely wiped out by WD, the Rainbows have begun to make a comeback.
In Europe, where WD has been around for a long time, they have a number
of Rainbow strains that are resistant to WD. Colorado is going to try
stocking fish from these strains. (IMO, that's another can of worms)

Willi

In article , says...
Larry L wrote:

plentiful fish, record hatches and ... small crowds g. I know I'm
being greedy, yet, somehow it just don't seem fair .... (picture a fat old
man making a pouty, spoiled brat style, little stomp with his foot :-)

I've said this before on roff, but if anyone of us _never_
got to fish recreationally again, we ought to consider ourselves
blessed to have been able to as much as we did already. In all
of human history we americans living right now have been
_incredibly_ spoiled --

Agreed.

most people who live now and have lived
before could never imagine the effort we put into recreation.

In any case, our generation will be the last that thinks this
way, so it's a relatively short-term human problem...

I'm not sure exactly which generation is "our" generation, but
I don't see the younger generations' recreation activities slowing
at all. Certainly no one is looking at the older generations and
thinking that they put excessive effort into recreation.
- Ken