the OSCARS!

"Tim J." wrote in message
That seems to be what it's all about for both sides on the extremes. There
is no thought given as to the intent of the message, but just the exact
words - and parsing them endlessly. Not that this would ever happen on
ROFF. ;-)

No, never on ROFF. g But yeah, I agree with that as an assessment of the
spin machines of both the right & left. Sometimes, one unguarded slip of
the tongue is a view into hidden, personal, and ugly attitudes (e.g. Allen's
"macaca" gaffe); and sometimes its just a benign and poorly worded
off-the-cuff statement of an actual truth.

In the present discussion, the facts are clear (IMHO) that Gore's statement
was both reasonable and misquoted. Anybody with a search engine could
easily verify that; but we search for and find what we want to see, not for
facts that disagree with staunchly held opinions. And though I'm citing the
present discussion, I do not excuse myself or anybody else from that
accusation.

Joe F.

" wrote in message
I can only assume by "disproven", you mean that someone told
you that he didn't say it?

Yes. Most recently - you.

Joe

rb608 wrote:
" wrote in message
"During my service in the
United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the
Internet.

Yep, it was those words that stirred up the right-wing **** storm. Those
words, however, are generally accepted by those in the industry and relevent
political arena as being essentially valid.

Wrong. Only a couple of his closest cronies have accepted it. Their
slanted remarks follow:


Most promienently, by Vinton
Cerf and Robert Kahn, who personally bebunked the "I invented the Internet"
baloney. Their statement, in part, reads,

"No one person or even small group of persons exclusively "invented" the
Internet. It is the result of many years of ongoing collaboration among
people in government and the university community. But as the two people
who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the
Internet work, we would like to acknowledge VP Gore's contributions as a
Congressman, Senator and as Vice President. No other elected official, to
our knowledge, has made a greater contribution over a longer period of
time."

"Last year the Vice President made a straightforward statement on his
role. He said: "During my service in the United States Congress I took the
initiative in creating the Internet." We don't think, as some people have
argued, that Gore intended to claim he "invented" the Internet. Moreover,
there is no question in our minds that while serving as Senator, Gore's
initiatives had a significant and beneficial effect on the still-evolving
Internet. The fact of the matter is that Gore was talking about and
promoting the Internet long before most people were listening."



Yeah, they attenpted to spin the statement. But Gore still thinks that
he was responsible for creating something that not only existed, but was
running on a fast track regardless of ANYTHING he did.


Their entire statement can be viewed at http://tinyurl.com/28h23. Of
course, you are free to discount the opinions of Cerf & Kahn. I mean, what
the hell do they know, eh?

Then there's that persky Lifetime Achievement Award from the International
Academy of Digital Artsa and Sciences given for his "three deacdes of
contributions to the internet."

His award was to bring attention to the organization.


But screw all that, let's accept the ridicule of a misquoted T-shirt slogan
as the actual facts, that'll be a lot simpler.

Joe F.

No misquotes about it. Just spin.

On Mar 4, 6:01 am, "rb608" wrote:
" wrote in message
"During my service in the
United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the
Internet.

Yep, it was those words that stirred up the right-wing **** storm.

There you go with that partisan crap again.

Those
words, however, are generally accepted by those in the industry and relevent
political arena as being essentially valid.

I won't speak for any "political arena"....I'm sure making inflated
claims
about what you have done is perfectly acceptable in political circles.

As far as "in the industry" that's complete hogwash. Cerf and Kahn
would have caught crap by industry people if they had claimed to
have created the internet.....and they contributed far more than
Al Gore ever did.

Most defense of Gore tries to rely on word spinning. That somehow
"creating the internet" is better than "inventing the internet."
I'll stick to the actual word he used if that makes you feel better.
(I'll admit my bias, as a hardware person, creating ~= inventing)

I design microprocessors for a living. If I went around saying that I
created microprocessor xyz, even though I might have had a huge
part in it's design, I would rightfully catch crap from the several
thousand other people who created that microprocessor. If it was
created before I even got there someone might even say that I
was full of it.

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
initiative in creating the Internet."

Yes, I'm a technical person and maybe politicians or other
simpletons can't see through unadulterated BS, but that
statement no matter how you try to justify it is BS......
.....and it's got nothing to do with right vs left vs middle.
- Ken

"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
bunch o' delusional stuff snipped
No misquotes about it. Just spin.

I ordinarily eschew responses to the cowardly anonymous, but I appreciate
your providing a strong data point to both Tim's & my hypotheses. :-)

Joe F.

rb608 wrote:
In the present discussion, the facts are clear (IMHO) that Gore's statement
was both reasonable and misquoted.

Huh? Gore's statement was grandiose self-serving BS. He no more
created
the internet than you did. By misquoted I can only guess you are
trying to slip out by my use of the word "invented". If it somehow
makes you feel better....

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
initiative in
creating the Internet. "

HA HA HA HA, Al Gore claimed that he created the internet. What
a maroon.
- Ken

" wrote in message
There you go with that partisan crap again.

:-)

I won't speak for any "political arena"....I'm sure making inflated
claims
about what you have done is perfectly acceptable in political circles.

That may be the basis of our disagreement on this issue. I believe the
record shows convincingly that during Gore's service in Congress, he was
instumental in instituting government policy and providing funding for the
agencies and organizations that provided impetus, funding, and opportunity
for the acceleration of the internet's creation/evolution into its present
form. I believe that in the context of a television interview during a
presidential campaign, practical machinations of the government, and the
necessity of brevity, that long winded sentence could reasonably and
truthfully be summarized into what Gore actually said in the CNN interview.
You, on the other hand, seem to believe otherwise.

As far as "in the industry" that's complete hogwash. Cerf and Kahn
would have caught crap by industry people if they had claimed to
have created the internet.....and they contributed far more than
Al Gore ever did.

Really? In their statement, they do seem to take a lot of credit, "But as
the two people
who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the
Internet work," Of course, in the context of a multi-paragraph statement
prepared at leisure, they did have the ability to be a tad more precise and
verbose.


Most defense of Gore tries to rely on word spinning. That somehow
"creating the internet" is better than "inventing the internet."
I'll stick to the actual word he used if that makes you feel better.

I'd be more satisfied if you stick to the context, wherein he refers to what
he did in Congress. Hell, the "High Performance Computing and Communication
Act of 1991" was commonly referred to as the Gore Bill. This bill led to
the creation of the "National Intelligence Infrastructure", for which Gore
may have created the term Information Superhighway. No, Gore was no
programmer, but the internet owes its existence to more than the techies
like Cerf, Kahn, & you. And for that, I give Gore most of the credit on the
government side, as he claimed.


"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
initiative in creating the Internet."

The concept that Gore singlehandedly created the internet is so ludicrous, I
don't understand how anyone could sensibly interpret the meaning of his
statement to infer he meant that.

Yes, I'm a technical person and maybe politicians or other
simpletons can't see through unadulterated BS, but that
statement no matter how you try to justify it is BS......

It's because the "invented the internet" interpretation *is* so ridiculous,
I can't understand why any intelligent person, both of us included, would
interpret it as you seem intent on doing.

....and it's got nothing to do with right vs left vs middle.

The facts and record have nothing to do with left/right; but the inability
ta accept the reasonable interpretation seems to be.

Joe F.

" wrote in message
By misquoted I can only guess you are
trying to slip out by my use of the word "invented".

If it were only you, I'd have less of a knee-jerk reaction; but like the
energy bill issue; the intentionally misquoted "invented the internet" meme
was deliberately spread far and wide by right-leaning news sources and
talking heads to the point that it's still being repeated, what, six years
later? You'd think (well, not really) that some semblance of integrity
would have surfaced in that time. But no, it's too good a lie; and far more
easily spread than the facts.

Joe F.

On Mar 3, 11:18 pm, Cyli wrote:

Oh, I've been willing to believe in it for a few years

I don't recall seeing anything to the contrary. My remarks were
directed to those who flatly denied that global warming is real. All
the more interesting that we have already seen in this thread that
nobody ever said any such thing......and that we will see ever more
such denials in the coming months and years......ainna?

(always keeping
in mind that I believed the previously popular theory that we were
going to enter an new ice age any century soon),

Theories about the consequences of global climate change abound. Ever
more new ones will continue to surface from time to time. For now, it
is much too early to rule out a new ice age as a possible outcome.
One of the least understood aspects of science in general is that
popularity has little bearing on the validity of theories.

but I don't grant
all, or even most, of the cause of it to humans.

Unfortunately, the concessions of even the most reasonable and
thoughtful of human beings has exactly the same effect on theoretical
precision as does balloting.

I'll certainly
admit that we exacerbate it, but am not sure by how much and in
exactly what ways.

Anybody who IS sure has his or her head up somebody's ass......and it
really doesn't matter whose, does it?

I've become too accustomed to the whines and screams of the ego filled
humans who want to blame the rest of us for every harm to the
environment and who claim that humans will eventually (usually in
their life time, if they're young) destroy EVERYTHING, presumably
leaving the earth a barren wasteland of rock in vacuum. To them,
it's all about humans.

And yet, the possibility that concerns about environmental damage and
putative human contributions thereto could be motivated by something
other than self-absorbed youthful ego is worthy of at least a
skeptical nod, wouldn't you say?

The earth has been going through hot flashes and chills for the cycle
of its existence.

An observation with which even the most rabid anti-global warming nut
cases do not disagree. In fact, it is (however pitiful) the most
powerful weapon in their arsenal.

While we are adding to the heat this cycle and
should stop doing that, it's not a brand new thing, entirely due to
human evil.

Once again, an observation with which no one I've encountered (face to
face or in print) has ever disagreed. What's more, from the
standpoint of the implicit geological standpoint, in 40 million years
or so, who's going to care.......right? I certainly won't. ****, I
don't have any offspring.....40 years from now it's somebody else's
problem.....not mine.

Wolfgang
but, those next 40 years........

rb608 typed:
" wrote in message
By misquoted I can only guess you are
trying to slip out by my use of the word "invented".

If it were only you, I'd have less of a knee-jerk reaction; but like
the energy bill issue; the intentionally misquoted "invented the
internet" meme was deliberately spread far and wide by right-leaning
news sources and talking heads to the point that it's still being
repeated, what, six years later? You'd think (well, not really) that
some semblance of integrity would have surfaced in that time. But
no, it's too good a lie; and far more easily spread than the facts.

The fact is that he said he created the Internet. What I *think* he meant
was that he helped legislate a clear path to assist in its growth as a tool
for commerce. What I think or what you think he meant doesn't change the
fact.

.. . . and quit playing with Evil Ken. He's tweaking you pretty well. ;-)
--
TL,
Tim
-------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj