straightening leaders

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
rw wrote in news:473c4d4c$0$32375
:

What is that supposed to mean?

Just that is seems silly to pull out gear for something that takes all of
20 seconds to do by hand, and that hardly seems utilitarian.
Scott
Reverse name to reply

I've seen some do it in 10 seconds.
-tom

rw wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
rw wrote:
My philosophy is empiricism and utilitarianism. IOW, check it out and
whatever works.

To that end, I searched out the gnarliest old Rio leader I could
find, took it from the package, and immersed it in hot (not boiling)
water. It straightened out just fine, tippet and all. It didn't seem
to be weakened in any obvious way, although I didn't actually test
the breaking point. ...

I didn't hear anyone argue that immersion in hot water wouldn't
straighten a leader. All of roff agrees, you can straighten a
nylon monofilament leader by immersing it in hot water.

It's a bad idea and bad advice and I wouldn't trust the leader
itself or the knots made with it, but it'll be straight, no doubt.

It appears to be a perfectly fine leader, just like one straightened by
hand, only straighter. ...

Well Mr. Empiricism get back to us after you use it.

Here's my final word on leader straightening:

Never use anything other than your bare fingers to straighten
a leader. If you can't straighten a leader with your bare
fingers the leader is defective.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken Fortenberry wrote in news:kTY_i.20798
:

Well Mr. Empiricism get back to us after you use it.

Not only will he use it, Ken, he'll use it on Fawn Lake!

--
Scott
Reverse name to reply

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:36:33 -0800 (PST), riverman
wrote:

On Nov 15, 1:53 pm, rw wrote:
My philosophy is empiricism and utilitarianism. IOW, check it out and
whatever works.

To that end, I searched out the gnarliest old Rio leader I could find,
took it from the package, and immersed it in hot (not boiling) water. It
straightened out just fine, tippet and all. It didn't seem to be
weakened in any obvious way, although I didn't actually test the
breaking point.

I'm not likely to do this as a matter of habit because I can straighten
them streamside with my fingers or with a piece of leather. But it
worked. It worked just fine.

I know that Connor can be irritating with his didactic, know-it-all
attitude, but this **** is ridiculous.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

That doesn't surprise me. Doesn't a leader straightener work by
generating enough friction to heat up the leader?

It's not (necessarily) the heat - IOW, the 120F that was suggested by
the RIO tech guy rather than "boiling" or very hot water - of the water,
it's the, um, water of the water. The temperature is safe, the medium
isn't. Mild _dry_ heat is what is best used to straighten mono - IOW,
the mild heat of the fingers and a gentle "stretch."

Using hot water for _heavy_ salt water leaders used to be pretty common,
and hot water is readily available on many sportfishing boats, either
through the galley, via engine heat, or by a solar cask of water on the
flybridge, but even there, with mono that most FFers would think was
"weedeater" line, it proves to be a chancy thing and I haven't done it,
seen it done, or heard anyone recommend it in years, but I've heard
manufacturers recommend against it (as recently as, ahem, yesterday...),
and therefore, sensible fishers, skippers, and captains stopped doing it
and recommend against it. Soaking mono in "hot" water increases the
rate at which it absorbs water, and therefore, it isn't a good idea.

Will a short dip in very warm water instantly ruin any line? Almost
certainly not, but that isn't what was said by some - that it was safe
to "boil it for hours," putting it in tea kettles, etc. If one is very
careful and treats it like a true experiment, that's a different story.
But the real problem for folks in the situation of the OP is that they
probably have a damaged leader from the get-go, and so, potentially
doing _more_ structural damage with a cosmetic repair is unsafe, just as
covering a rotten structure with new drywall would be. "It looks good,
so it must BE good" is the motto of some around here, but I'd suggest it
isn't a very good one - hey, YMMV.

And I'd offer the problem is all the worse with someone who regularly
uses a particular leader/mono in that they are accustomed, if even
subconsciously, to a particular "feel" and breakpoint, and if that
breakpoint is lowered, they are more likely to break off a fish. If
that break occurs at or near the butt end, there's a problem beyond
simply not landing a fish.

Does this work with fly line also? Some of my SA lines are ALL
spirally, and I've tried all sorts of ways to straighten them.

Um, "spirally?" IAC, basically, the same thing. I'd suggest simply
storing them in much looser coils, or even use what I've mentioned
before - storing them around the perimeter of a room, even a garage for
a short time in moderate temps. One thing you _might_ try, but I'm not
_recommending_ it: heat some VERY pure, dry sand, like casting sand, or
glass beads like optometrists use to "work" plastic eyeglass frames to a
_low_ heat and try those. IIRC, the "tanks" they use get the beads too
hot for this purpose, so simply taking the line to a friendly
optometrist might not work, but if you know one, you can check to see.

But the bottom line is that the average fisher can't fix "broken" line
at home with a teakettle, and "broken" line should be replaced. And if
that's too expensive for one's budget, then bluntly, one really can't
afford to fish with such gear. In the case of the OP, it sounds as if
he was sold "broken" leaders, and should return them for
replacement...uncooked.

TC,
R

--riverman

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 06:22:05 -0800, "Tom Nakashima"
wrote:


"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
.1.4...
rw wrote in news:473c4d4c$0$32375
:

What is that supposed to mean?

Just that is seems silly to pull out gear for something that takes all of
20 seconds to do by hand, and that hardly seems utilitarian.
Scott
Reverse name to reply

I've seen some do it in 10 seconds.

I can straighten that leader in 8 seconds...

Wink Martindale

-tom

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 08:40:16 -0600, Ken Fortenberry
wrote:

rw wrote:
Ken Fortenberry wrote:
rw wrote:
My philosophy is empiricism and utilitarianism. IOW, check it out and
whatever works.

To that end, I searched out the gnarliest old Rio leader I could
find, took it from the package, and immersed it in hot (not boiling)
water. It straightened out just fine, tippet and all. It didn't seem
to be weakened in any obvious way, although I didn't actually test
the breaking point. ...

I didn't hear anyone argue that immersion in hot water wouldn't
straighten a leader. All of roff agrees, you can straighten a
nylon monofilament leader by immersing it in hot water.

It's a bad idea and bad advice and I wouldn't trust the leader
itself or the knots made with it, but it'll be straight, no doubt.

It appears to be a perfectly fine leader, just like one straightened by
hand, only straighter. ...

Well Mr. Empiricism get back to us after you use it.

Here's my final word on leader straightening:

Never use anything other than your bare fingers to straighten
a leader. If you can't straighten a leader with your bare
fingers the leader is defective.

Er, no. That's not proof it _is_ defective, only that it has been
exposed to heat at least high enough to "form" it, and unless you know
how high, of what type and of what duration that heat was, it should be
_considered_ unsuitable for fishing. Heck, use it for casting practice,
to hang holiday ornaments, etc., just don't risk, um, "casting" it
adrift on the water.

TC,
R

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:36:33 -0800 (PST), riverman
wrote:

On Nov 15, 1:53 pm, rw wrote:
My philosophy is empiricism and utilitarianism. IOW, check it out and
whatever works.

To that end, I searched out the gnarliest old Rio leader I could find,
took it from the package, and immersed it in hot (not boiling) water. It
straightened out just fine, tippet and all. It didn't seem to be
weakened in any obvious way, although I didn't actually test the
breaking point.

I'm not likely to do this as a matter of habit because I can straighten
them streamside with my fingers or with a piece of leather. But it
worked. It worked just fine.

I know that Connor can be irritating with his didactic, know-it-all
attitude, but this **** is ridiculous.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

That doesn't surprise me. Doesn't a leader straightener work by
generating enough friction to heat up the leader?

It's not (necessarily) the heat - IOW, the 120F that was suggested by
the RIO tech guy rather than "boiling" or very hot water - of the water,
it's the, um, water of the water. The temperature is safe, the medium
isn't. Mild _dry_ heat is what is best used to straighten mono - IOW,
the mild heat of the fingers and a gentle "stretch."

Using hot water for _heavy_ salt water leaders used to be pretty common,
and hot water is readily available on many sportfishing boats, either
through the galley, via engine heat, or by a solar cask of water on the
flybridge, but even there, with mono that most FFers would think was
"weedeater" line, it proves to be a chancy thing and I haven't done it,
seen it done, or heard anyone recommend it in years, but I've heard
manufacturers recommend against it (as recently as, ahem, yesterday...),
and therefore, sensible fishers, skippers, and captains stopped doing it
and recommend against it. Soaking mono in "hot" water increases the
rate at which it absorbs water, and therefore, it isn't a good idea.

Will a short dip in very warm water instantly ruin any line? Almost
certainly not, but that isn't what was said by some - that it was safe
to "boil it for hours," putting it in tea kettles, etc. If one is very
careful and treats it like a true experiment, that's a different story.
But the real problem for folks in the situation of the OP is that they
probably have a damaged leader from the get-go, and so, potentially
doing _more_ structural damage with a cosmetic repair is unsafe, just as
covering a rotten structure with new drywall would be. "It looks good,
so it must BE good" is the motto of some around here, but I'd suggest it
isn't a very good one - hey, YMMV.

And I'd offer the problem is all the worse with someone who regularly
uses a particular leader/mono in that they are accustomed, if even
subconsciously, to a particular "feel" and breakpoint, and if that
breakpoint is lowered, they are more likely to break off a fish. If
that break occurs at or near the butt end, there's a problem beyond
simply not landing a fish.

Does this work with fly line also? Some of my SA lines are ALL
spirally, and I've tried all sorts of ways to straighten them.

Um, "spirally?" IAC, basically, the same thing. I'd suggest simply
storing them in much looser coils, or even use what I've mentioned
before - storing them around the perimeter of a room, even a garage for
a short time in moderate temps. One thing you _might_ try, but I'm not
_recommending_ it: heat some VERY pure, dry sand, like casting sand, or
glass beads like optometrists use to "work" plastic eyeglass frames to a
_low_ heat and try those. IIRC, the "tanks" they use get the beads too
hot for this purpose, so simply taking the line to a friendly
optometrist might not work, but if you know one, you can check to see.

But the bottom line is that the average fisher can't fix "broken" line
at home with a teakettle, and "broken" line should be replaced. And if
that's too expensive for one's budget, then bluntly, one really can't
afford to fish with such gear. In the case of the OP, it sounds as if
he was sold "broken" leaders, and should return them for
replacement...uncooked.

TC,
R

Good grief!

Wolfgang
who would really like to have someone explain to him what's wrong with a
good old fashioned argon infused atmosphere in a streamside glassed in class
iv biocontainment unit, heated by a battery of tuned and tightly focused
near infrared lamps.

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 07:20:09 -0700, rw
wrote:

This "bad advice" crap is hilarious. It's clear that all you and
LaCourse are interested in is discrediting Connor by any means possible,
fair or foul. You're acting like petulant children.

Bull****. Of course hot water works. I did the same thing with a
hair dryer on low. It is no secret that heat is what removes the
memory from mono leaders. It is like Ken and others have said: coil
the leader up and it will get back the coil memory. But, as with hand
straightened leaders, it will not be as bad. But, it is still there.

There is nothing wrong with what Connor told Dave K. But it is
impractical and certainly won't work streamside except with a lot of
trouble (fire, pot, water). How long have you been straightening
leaders Steve? Ten years? The hands must work if you've stuck with
that method for so long. I can remember doing it 50 years ago.
Worked then - works now.

Dave

Dave LaCourse wrote:
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 07:20:09 -0700, rw
wrote:


This "bad advice" crap is hilarious. It's clear that all you and
LaCourse are interested in is discrediting Connor by any means possible,
fair or foul. You're acting like petulant children.


Bull****. Of course hot water works. I did the same thing with a
hair dryer on low. It is no secret that heat is what removes the
memory from mono leaders. It is like Ken and others have said: coil
the leader up and it will get back the coil memory. But, as with hand
straightened leaders, it will not be as bad. But, it is still there.

There is nothing wrong with what Connor told Dave K.

Then why are you getting so bent out of shape?

But it is
impractical and certainly won't work streamside except with a lot of
trouble (fire, pot, water). How long have you been straightening
leaders Steve? Ten years?

Forty-five years.

The hands must work if you've stuck with
that method for so long. I can remember doing it 50 years ago.
Worked then - works now.

Of course it works. That's what I do streamside. So does hot water.

You should chill out.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:05:42 -0700, rw
wrote:

You should chill out.

LOL. You seem to be the one who isn't chilled out. Can't stand
Fortenberry, Wolfgang, me, Mark B. Who else? Funny stuff, Steve.

Davie