OT .. Thanks Forty & Frank ...

"jeff miller" wrote

.. i got lost in
the mountains once, and she kept close with me the 8 hours it took me to
find a road.

i, and the rest of us, *must* be treated to a narrative of that little
adventure.

and, regarding pj's relationship with smoke and rush (especially the
former), i have never seen more devotion and love expended towards a human
child than his for those two dogs. no doubt he can be rougher than most
folks with those he loves, but he did one helluva job with them. smoke was
like a computer game; he would perform as well for me as he would for jim.
he still keeps the mount of the last duck smoke retrieved in his den.

yfitp
wayno

"Charlie Choc" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:31:58 -0400, jeff miller
wrote:

Charlie Choc wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 12:13:52 -0400, jeff miller

wrote:


thanks...how many hours does it usually take you to get up to west
yellowstone or raynolds??


From where? It's probably 3 hours from Jackson going through the
park(s).

salt lake...

I don't go that way, but I'd guess about 5 hours going up through Idaho,
maybe
8+ taking the scenic route.
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

jeffie, if the above estimates are based on actual "choc speed", you can
figure it would take me or jim about half that time.

yfitp
wayno

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:08:08 -0400, "Wayne Harrison" wrote:

jeffie, if the above estimates are based on actual "choc speed", you can
figure it would take me or jim about half that time.

Why would you want to see how fast you could get by all that scenery?
--
Charlie...
http://www.chocphoto.com

On Apr 20, 8:09 am, rw wrote:

Training collars are not for every dog. My Border Collie, for example,
would probably totally freak out. She's so eager to please that it's not
necessary in any case.

True enough. Our pound-adopted border collie was herding the chickens
a bit too harsh and I tried the collar on him. He did exactly that. He
was (and is) good with the chickens when we're there, but we were
hoping to reach the point where we could leave them together while
we're at work all day (we did this with all our other dogs). No go --
he'd keep them herded up all day, and when they tried to escape he'd
nip their tails, and pull tail feathers out. Now the chickens have
their own day pen, and Barney can't wait until he gets to round them
up and pen them in the morning before we leave.

A well trained dog is a joy. A poorly trained one is a headache.

I agree, except that "well" is defined by the owner. Not everyone
wants nor needs the same level of training. Our other dog, a brittany
spaniel, we got after a friend found her wandering the streets. She is
a wanderer and despite our best efforts have never been able to break
her of it. She just loves to go out into the desert and hunt
(anything), and when done she'll follow _any_ human she happens to
find. But she can give you a look that'll melt you, and she's a very
sweet and happy dog. I wish she'd retrieve doves for me but I've never
had enough hunting time to get it done. A few years ago I'm pretty
sure she was _very_ close to that breakthrough moment where it'd all
click for her, but then I got busy and didn't get back out. Now she's
seven years old and I don't know about the old saying about old dogs
and new tricks, but I've resigned myself to her not being a bird dog.

Jon.

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:15:27 -0400, Charlie Choc
wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:08:08 -0400, "Wayne Harrison" wrote:

jeffie, if the above estimates are based on actual "choc speed", you can
figure it would take me or jim about half that time.

Why would you want to see how fast you could get by all that scenery?

Well, to be fair, you probably have to get to the airport an extra, um,
day or two early to check yer truck...I'm curious, do they limit your
gas to three ounces in a quart ziploc...?

Hey, it might help, it might not...
R

"rw" wrote


Training collars are not for every dog. My Border Collie, for example,
would probably totally freak out.


although I declared EOT for me, I'll butt in briefly

modern, high quality ( I've product tested for years for the best brand ...
to remain unnamed to avoid spamming ;-) are highly adjustable


The collar I use now can be adjusted down to a level that I can just barely
feel on bare skin .... and at that level 99% of retrievers ( what I know )
don't even look quizical the first time they feel it ( if they do )

The other end of the collars spectrum is seriously uncomfortable ... but not
physically damaging, as many tools can be ... I HAVE shocked myself with it
on high and often do so in front of "love my doggie" new clients, to make a
point

The main ( imho ) reasons for wild overreaction in dogs is simply that Mr
Human WANTS to 'see" the effect ... most of my collar corrections ( teaching
if you read that post ) are not visible to most observers, only those VERY
carefully watching Fido .. ( indeed collars are made, and available, where
the transmitter beeps when a button is pressed ... this is designed
specifically so 'newbies' can TELL when an experienced trainer uses the
tool, i.e. students watching a pro ... otherwise they often can't .. )

..... THOUGHTFUL use of the tool is NOT characterized by the trainer
saying, "****, guess that was too much." ... after the fact


One more thing ... ( let me stick in that IMO ) ... one of the reasons
e-collars are so effective is because dogs don't "understand" the stimulus
.... it's super unnatural

To help you understand, .... everyone knows nearly any stray any dog will
run out of your yard if you pretend to pick up a rock to throw at them ...
even if nobody ever really has !!

This ( IMO ) is simply a genetic understanding of a danger ... passed down
from before that first wolf adopted someone to feed him... they can
'understand' the pain of a flying rock without even feeling it

Hitting a dog with a stick is very similar ... they genetically 'understand'
.... and one being tough, resisting dominance, CAN be physically damaged
BEFORE he'll yield to such "tools" ( watch a real dog fight ... or try to
break one up, if you doubt how fiecely some dogs cling to status ) ASIDE:
since it was mentioned, BS like 'biting an ear' is as sophisticated as
covering yourself with leaches 'cause you have a fever ... few things I know
of, in 'modern american culture' have as wide a spread from extemely subtly
and sophisticated at one end of scale of participants to truly medieval at
the other ... as dog "training" ( in quotes because the one end doesn't
justify the name )

The e-collar is a jolt from the blue .. and THAT, as much or more than
'pain' is it's power ... and another reason to dial it down to a level that
changes behavior, not one that "pleases" a ****ed off human

The e-collar is certainly NOT the tool for most people, but I seriously
doubt that a dog can be found "soft" enough to not be trainable with one ...
and produce a happy, tail wagging result ... remember, HUMAN NATURE, not
dog nature is the biggest problem in dog training ..

In article , Ken Fortenberry
writes
Larry L wrote:
I bought RosettaStone Spanish ( Latin America) based largely on your
suggestions. I have a lifelong history of being terrible at learning
languges, and was very concerned parting with so much money when I'm such a
dolt.
I'm several lessons into the program ... and there is no certainty
of my
success,
BUT,
this is the most powerful approach to learning language I've ever seen. I'm
progressing and having fun doing so.

Glad to hear it, Larry. I wish you continued success with your
language learning.

Perhaps you can return the favor and recommend a book or books
on dog training. I'm going to get my first ever pure bred dog
in a few weeks and I'm going to train her myself. I've never
had any dog that wasn't a shelter mutt and I loved them dearly
but this time I went with a Labrador Retriever with a pedigree.

I'm getting my dog from these folks:

http://www.britishlabradors.com/

And the training program they have is this one:

http://www.britishretrievertraining.com/index.html

I like it because they stress not using e-collars, which is
something I won't do. (I'm sure e-collars are fine in the
right hands, but my hands are far too inexperienced.)

Any advice or pointers appreciated.


I prefer to use a "Choke chain" - a bad description if ever there was
one. Check chain is much better because the chain never tightens to
choke the puppy. Always make sure the chain is put on the dog correctly
so that it will release as soon as any tension is relieved. The dog
will respond to the noise of the chain being tweaked without it ever
becoming tight.

One point that I read in an authoritative dog training book is- he
After being trained to fetch a dummy, the dog is not trained to give the
dummy but to hold it instead. If a treat is given as a reward for
giving, then the dog will develop the habit of dropping the dummy (later
a bird) prematurely in order to get the reward.

Good luck with your Labrador - the finest dogs possible in my opinion -
then I'm very biased indeed :-)

Oh yes Black is beautiful.
--
Bill Grey

In article , Ken Fortenberry
writes
Larry L wrote:
"Ken Fortenberry" wrote:
No, I'm not interested in field trials either. My dog won't be
suited for American field trials even though she comes from a
long line of Field Trial Champions in Ireland and Britain.
British Labradors are significantly smaller than their American
cousins, slighter of build and with a quieter temperament. Male
British Labs average 70-75 pounds, the females 53-58 pounds and
while some have competed well in American field trials their
small stature puts them at a disadvantage.
A dog from British Trial lines is an EXCELLENT choice for a gun dog
... mainly because of the quieter temperament
You'll do great Ken, keep us updated ... got a name yet?

Thanks Larry. We want a name that reflects the Irish in her
bloodline and starts with a K. (My wife is Kristine with a
K, my first name starts with a K, so there you have it. ;-)
I'm leaning toward Kerry and my wife seems partial to Kelty.


Whatever it must be a regal name worthy of a proper dog :-)


--
Bill Grey

In article , jeff miller
writes
at $1500 a puppy, what do you think that investment yields?

Unbelievable loyalty, love , affection, companionship , unerring
devotion,

...............keeps your feet warm on the sofa :-)
--
Bill Grey

In article ,
Larry L writes
Me, "That is not at all my type of training but I can offer some simple
advice. When she climbs up there, say 'no' very firmly and do something
that she finds very unpleasant, swat her butt HARD, for instance. At this
point it has to be more unpleasant than the food is pleasant."

Swat the dog ! NEVER It's the owner who is to blame NOT the dog.
The answer would be to retrain the lady.

If the dog was properly adjusted it would know its place in the pecking
order when there's food around. The dog eats Last and should know that .
--
Bill Grey