OT question:Military wannabes/disrespect?

Having never served in the military, I can only see that world from
the outside. The fraternity of brothers in arms is obviously a
special one, and I respect that. However, the death of our friend
recently seemed to begin an affectation of admiration and respect
among some of his other, younger friends and family; and it is that
which is the subject of this question/discussion.

Brian was a helluva good guy and by any measure, a true patriot. He
served at least three tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, earned a couple
of Bronze Stars, and although not being career Army (National Guard),
he was a soldier's soldier. He was widely and deeply admired by his
closer friends (and I do not count myself among that inner circle),
and in their desire to honor him, they have on occasion taken to
wearing military style camo clothing, including to his memorial
service. Only one or two of this group ever served in uniform.

Because I have not served, I absolutely would not feel comfortable
donning such a costume. In fact, despite my deep appreciation and
respect for the man, I do not even feel I have the right to offer so
much as a salute. I'm not a soldier. I haven't earned it.

So for you present & past military: Is this pretend soldier stuff
respectful/disrespectful? Weird? Amusing? To me, it just seems
wrong for an insurance salesman e.g. to dress up like something he
never was, even as a sign of respect. Is it just good fun with the
best of intentions? Am I overthinking this?

Joe F.

rb608 wrote:
...
Am I overthinking this?

Yes.

So long as the mourner's intent is to be respectful then it's
respectful in my book.

But, like you, I've never been military.

--
Ken Fortenberry

I've seen this a few times and also, those folks that want to be
"cool" by wearing fatigues. As Ken said, its based on intent. To
some, they think that is honoring the fallen. Okay, if that's the way
you choose to do it. I see it as "playing soldier." To me, unless
someone is in full uniform (i.e. rank, name, service, unit), its just
cloth. By the way, two Bronze Stars is awfully impressive.
Frank Reid
To Absent Comrades.

On Jan 11, 7:27*pm, Frank Reid © 2008 wrote:
some, they think that is honoring the fallen. *Okay, if that's the way
you choose to do it. *I see it as "playing soldier." *

I'm sure it's a bit of both.

By the way, two Bronze Stars is awfully impressive.

As I said, he was a helluva guy. For the memorial service Saturday,
one of his former commanders drove across a couple of states, in full
dress uniform, just to speak for a few minutes about how he wouldn't
be there at all if it weren't for Brian.

Joe F.

Frank Reid © 2008 wrote:

By the way, two Bronze Stars is awfully impressive.
Frank Reid

Not when it comes to laCourse and John Kerry.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

"rb608" wrote in message
...
Having never served in the military, I can only see that world from
the outside. The fraternity of brothers in arms is obviously a
special one, and I respect that. However, the death of our friend
recently seemed to begin an affectation of admiration and respect
among some of his other, younger friends and family; and it is that
which is the subject of this question/discussion.

Brian was a helluva good guy and by any measure, a true patriot. He
served at least three tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, earned a couple
of Bronze Stars, and although not being career Army (National Guard),
he was a soldier's soldier. He was widely and deeply admired by his
closer friends (and I do not count myself among that inner circle),
and in their desire to honor him, they have on occasion taken to
wearing military style camo clothing, including to his memorial
service. Only one or two of this group ever served in uniform.

Because I have not served, I absolutely would not feel comfortable
donning such a costume. In fact, despite my deep appreciation and
respect for the man, I do not even feel I have the right to offer so
much as a salute. I'm not a soldier. I haven't earned it.

So for you present & past military: Is this pretend soldier stuff
respectful/disrespectful? Weird? Amusing? To me, it just seems
wrong for an insurance salesman e.g. to dress up like something he
never was, even as a sign of respect. Is it just good fun with the
best of intentions? Am I overthinking this?

Joe F.

Joe, although not militarily related, I have noticed this at funerals in
various ways..that is, the manner/style/way of dressing. I think it has
something to do with our age...the times, they are a changin'

john

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:04:40 -0800 (PST), rb608
wrote:

Having never served in the military, I can only see that world from
the outside. The fraternity of brothers in arms is obviously a
special one, and I respect that. However, the death of our friend
recently seemed to begin an affectation of admiration and respect
among some of his other, younger friends and family; and it is that
which is the subject of this question/discussion.

Brian was a helluva good guy and by any measure, a true patriot. He
served at least three tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, earned a couple
of Bronze Stars, and although not being career Army (National Guard),
he was a soldier's soldier. He was widely and deeply admired by his
closer friends (and I do not count myself among that inner circle),
and in their desire to honor him, they have on occasion taken to
wearing military style camo clothing, including to his memorial
service. Only one or two of this group ever served in uniform.

Because I have not served, I absolutely would not feel comfortable
donning such a costume. In fact, despite my deep appreciation and
respect for the man, I do not even feel I have the right to offer so
much as a salute. I'm not a soldier. I haven't earned it.

It has nothing to do with YOU "earning" any "right" (at least in the way
you seem to mean) - you are not in the military and therefore, there is
no relationship for you to salute superiors and/or their rank/commission
with a military salute. If these guys are going around saluting each
other, covered or not, inside or out, or his casket, it's not
"offensive," it's just silly but harmless in the case of each other,
and, I guess respectful, but meaningless militarily, in the case of his
casket.

So for you present & past military: Is this pretend soldier stuff
respectful/disrespectful? Weird? Amusing? To me, it just seems
wrong for an insurance salesman e.g. to dress up like something he
never was, even as a sign of respect. Is it just good fun with the
best of intentions? Am I overthinking this?

Joe F.

Why look for offenses when you yourself claim that you believe it all to
be respectful? From what you describe, these guys aren't wearing
awards, decorations, insignia, badges, tabs, etc. You don't state
whether it is even actual current-issue patterns/uniform pieces - it's
"_military style_ camo." Moreover, you state that one or two of the
group did serve, and if they aren't offended, it would seem that is
that. For me and speaking in general terms, even a Bob Howard wearing
"military style camo" to a funeral, memorial service, etc. would be,
well, I guess "inappropriate" would be the word I'd use, but
"offensive," no, not unless there was some offense intended.

HTH,
R

On Jan 12, 9:35*am, wrote:
It has nothing to do with YOU "earning" any "right" (at least in the way
you seem to mean) - you are not in the military and therefore, there is
no relationship for you to salute superiors and/or their rank/commission
with a military salute. *

To clarify my perspective on a salute, it's because it is meaningless
militarily that I eschew that gesture. For me to offer a meaningless
pretend salute is IMO to confer upon myself the honor of being a
member of his military brotherhood, which, as I said, I haven't
earned. I can salute him with my words or actions, but a military
style salute just wouldn't seem right to me.

If these guys are going around saluting each
other, covered or not, inside or out,

Nah, nobody went that far. They just like the "cool" pants and hats.

well, I guess "inappropriate" would be the word I'd use, but
"offensive," no, not unless there was some offense intended.

Since my initial question, I've reflected that all of the men
participating in this activity are relatively young; the oldest being
34, AFAIK. I am supposing that they see it all a great deal
differently than someone twice most of their ages. It's simple hero
worship of a strong role model (and probably similar to young girls
wanting to dress like Brittany Spears or some such BS of that sort.)

But Frank hit the nail on the head. They're old enough that they can
shoot real guns; but young enough that they're just "playing soldier".

Joe F.

On Jan 12, 9:32*am, rb608 wrote:
On Jan 12, 9:35*am, wrote:

It has nothing to do with YOU "earning" any "right" (at least in the way
you seem to mean) - you are not in the military and therefore, there is
no relationship for you to salute superiors and/or their rank/commission
with a military salute. *

To clarify my perspective on a salute, it's because it is meaningless
militarily that I eschew that gesture. *For me to offer a meaningless
pretend salute is IMO to confer upon myself the honor of being a
member of his military brotherhood, which, as I said, I haven't
earned. *I can salute him with my words or actions, but a military
style salute just wouldn't seem right to me.

If these guys are going around saluting each
other, covered or not, inside or out,

Nah, nobody went that far. *They just like the "cool" pants and hats.

well, I guess "inappropriate" would be the word I'd use, but
"offensive," no, not unless there was some offense intended.

Since my initial question, I've reflected that all of the men
participating in this activity are relatively young; the oldest being
34, AFAIK. *I am supposing that they see it all a great deal
differently than someone twice most of their ages. *It's simple hero
worship of a strong role model (and probably similar to young girls
wanting to dress like Brittany Spears or some such BS of that sort.)

But Frank hit the nail on the head. *They're old enough that they can
shoot real guns; but young enough that they're just "playing soldier".

Joe F.

I think the ocassion goes beyond honoring one fallen indivual. He
represent an instituton and a group of men and women bigger than
himself. I would not dishonor that group by prentending to be
something I am not. If I could find or fit in any uniform I had I
would not put it on for this ocassion. Camo is one thing, wearing a
uniform can be illegal. I would not make a mockery of the
institutions he loved and the service he gave.
I would go in my best civilian suit. I think that would show the honor
and respect that is due him ( and his brothers in arms). Take off
your hat and put your hand over your heart at the proper time.
After three tours and two bronze stars he should get a military
funeral including pall bearers. Most funeral homes know who to
contact to get that arranged.
If the "group" wants to wear camos etc, 34 is not to old, find a
recruiter and do it for real.
I recently talked to a Sargent who was on his way home and then to
Afganistan. He jined the Army in 1971 retired in 1991 and was recalled
to duty last year for one year and was being extended one more year.
If that man or someone like him was at the funeral I would not
consider anything but my best suit and tie.

On Jan 12, 11:28*am, wrote:
If that man or someone like him was at the funeral I would not
consider anything but my best suit and tie.

I agree. All involved were suitably and respectfully attired for the
actual service and interment a couple weeks ago. This was a local
event for those who couldn't get the day off or drive the four+ hours
each way. It was a much more informal undertaking, mostly for his
local HS students benefit.

Joe F.