Hint for the day

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 01:56:08 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:

On Mar 13, 7:34*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 18:53:47 -0700 (PDT), Outdoors in Oregon

wrote:
On Mar 13, 2:20*pm, DaveS wrote:
On Mar 11, 9:55*am, DaveS wrote:

On Mar 11, 5:52*am, jeff wrote:

DaveS wrote:
His lawyers say he was crazy. Duhhh. In this case, we
don't care.

too sad, all around...and as succinct a statement of the logic behind
the death penalty as i've ever seen.

jeff

Everybody gets the death penalty in this life. The principle I like
is, . . . You shorten violently someone else's life . . . you get your
own life shortened. This guy sliced her over, and over and over and
over and over. Then he raped her, then finished her off, sliced her
some more, put her in her car trunk to rot, hopped a plane for
California and attacked two women there. He confessed.

He's stalled the system for 18 years, constantly a threat to other
prisoners. His defense? Bad upbringing. One thing folks forget is that
these folks often continue to kill in prison, where they carryout
death sentences on other prisoners at their leisure. I suggest folks
who favor life for these kinds of cases might walk some of the talk by
applying to work as guards, or even teachers in prison.

Dave

Well ****, the Supreme Court assholes of the State of Washington once
again have delayed the execution of Cal Brown until after a review of
the lethal injection method in May. Brown admitted spending 34 hours
torturing, raping and slashing his little 22 year old girl victim
before he finished her off. I just do not understand the corrupted
justice system and the wicked people who have allowed this man to
continue to live, and permit the system's functionaries to continue
the torment of her family. I would gladly volunteer to carry out the
sentence with a Louisville Slugger if that will end this charade.

Dave

They should make it take 34 hours.....and use a rusty needle.

Ya know, that's pretty big talk for a secessionist, "they should" - are you -
personally - prepared to "make it take 34 hours...and use" anything?

Just Curious,
R
...hey, you may well be, but...

No, 34 hours is how long Brown sliced, diced, raped, and sliced her
some more, BEFORE he killed her with his hands. Apparently, in police
circles Brown achieved a sculpted horror that outdid horrific
Hollywood. But back to the point: Executing Brown as a batting
volunteer. To me, killing a person with a ball-bat, swung full, and in
a regular rhythm, just doesn't seem like it could prolong life more
than for what I would guess might be 3-5 hits before death would come.
Especially if Brown were held down or tethered for the first 1-2
shots, similar to slaughtering a water buffalo. You got to figure that
out of nervousness maybe every other intended head shot is going to
smash a shoulder or a couple of ribs. And a shot to smash a knee joint
is just as likely to hit a thigh and do little to kill him. But all in
all, connecting with even one good or more likely 2 strong head shots
is very likely to start brain death. But getting back to the point,
torturing Brown for a long time, even for your normal ROFFIAN
whackjob, IS probably unrealistic. But JTs heart IS in the right
place.

Just speaking for myself, it would take a strong stomach, but I think
I'd give it a go. I'd be damn happy to be able to get in all 3-5 hits,
in a rain suit of course. Understand, I am just saying that IF there
is a problem for the State in getting someone to shorten this man's
life as per his sentence of death for the horrific murder of a young
girl, and no one was comming forward, I would give it a go. And you?
Its all really theoretical so why not speculate?

I have no doubt that I _could_ execute him by whatever method I wished or was
instructed to use. The difference is that I'd have no desire to (absolutely
pointlessly) "torture" him while doing it, nor would I follow what I know would
be illegal and I personally believe to be immoral instructions to do so.

HTH,
R

Dave

On Mar 16, 6:02*am, wrote:
I have no doubt that I _could_ execute him by whatever method I wished or was
instructed to use. *The difference is that I'd have no desire to (absolutely
pointlessly) "torture" him while doing it, nor would I follow what I know would
be illegal and I personally believe to be immoral instructions to do so.

HTH,
R





Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

IMHO a big part of the problem is the anti-death penalty folk drawing
an absolute line and using phony and frivelous appeals to jam the
system. AFAIK most states that still have the death penalty, limit it
to aggravated situations. For example, the US Supreme Court has
decided that firing squad and electric chair methods are
Constitutional. However, as in Washington's case, the tactic of the
"antis" is to challange in the courts ANY method as "cruel" and
"unusual," and in this case the method is lethal injection. And as I
said before, their tactics fill the prisons with violent repeat
murderers who rise in the prison hierarchies, maintain a regime of
continued murder and violence against other prisoners and make
rehabilitation of lesser criminals in prison an impossibility. The
"antis' also use endless delays to run costs of a successful execution
thru the roof, even after DNA testing, and sabotage the rule of law.
For the life of me I cannot see how these folks equate the horrors
they actively work to perpetuate, with taking a "moral position."

I am beginning to think that perhaps the only effective way to fight
the antis is to boycott attorneys who focus their pro bongo activities
on defending murderers convicted of aggravated murder, and explicitly
punishing complicit elected and appointed functionaries at the polls
and thru published exposure.

Dave
I guess some kids had guinnea pigs and other kids collected
monsters. . . and still do ;-))

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:48:18 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:


I am beginning to think that perhaps the only effective way to fight
the antis is to boycott attorneys who focus their pro bongo activities

Maybe Matt McConaughey can play 'em in the movie...

on defending murderers convicted of aggravated murder,

Seriously, that is among the worst ideas on the subject I can imagine - denying
_anyone_ their right to a trial.

and explicitly
punishing complicit elected and appointed functionaries at the polls
and thru published exposure.

Um, why wouldn't you, and why shouldn't everyone, vote their conscious on
_every_ issue, be it the death penalty, the war in Iraq, on drugs, or in or on
whatever, or any other...?


Dave
I guess some kids had guinnea pigs and other kids collected
monsters. . . and still do ;-))

And at least one did neither...and still doesn't...

HTH,
R

On Mar 16, 11:34*am, wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 10:48:18 -0700 (PDT), DaveS wrote:
I am beginning to think that perhaps the only effective way to fight
the antis is to boycott attorneys who focus their pro bongo activities

Maybe Matt McConaughey can play 'em in the movie...

on defending murderers convicted of aggravated murder,

Seriously, that is among the worst ideas on the subject I can imagine - denying
_anyone_ their right to a trial.

and explicitly
punishing complicit elected and appointed functionaries at the polls
and thru published exposure.

Um, why wouldn't you, and why shouldn't everyone, vote their conscious on
_every_ issue, be it the death penalty, the war in Iraq, on drugs, or in or on
whatever, or any other...?



Dave
I guess some kids had guinnea pigs and other kids collected
monsters. . . and still do ;-))

And at least one did neither...and still doesn't...

HTH,
R

Who said anyone should be denied a trial and a lawyer. Listen up . . .
I said defending murderers CONVICTED of AGGRAVATED murder. Convicted
means they have ALREADY had their trial. I didn't say they shouldn't
work thru the political process to change the law. if thats their
issue. And I didn't say folk shouldn't vote whatever way they choose.
Capisch? It bothers me that a determined minority can turn our justice
system and corrections system into a hellish nightmare for the
majority of law abiders and law breakers, based on their need to
protect a few monsters that they personally would be too gutless to
guard, or even have the stomach to look at a photo of the victims, and
parade their hypocracy as if they were morally superior.

And at least one did neither...and still doesn't...

Don't even know what the F--- this means. As a kid I had goats and
chickens, and dogs. We ate the chickens (and rabbits and pheasants and
an occasional squirrel if hungry enough) and drank the goat milk. If
guinea pigs weren't rat like, or you could have milked them I would
have . . . . whatever.

Dave

"DaveS" wrote in message
...
Who said anyone should be denied a trial and a lawyer.

You were. Or, at least suggesting denying legal appeals.

Listen up . . .

we're reading here, not listening. But, carry on......


I said defending murderers CONVICTED of AGGRAVATED murder. Convicted
means they have ALREADY had their trial. I didn't say they shouldn't
work thru the political process to change the law. if thats their
issue. And I didn't say folk shouldn't vote whatever way they choose.

still, you implied that folks shouldn't be allowed to exercise legal means
to prevent exectutions, if I read you correctly. As if executing someone
like the person you cite, was going to deter the next deranged soul from
doing something equally heinous. You almost seem to have some sick sort of
blood lust going on this matter.


Capisch?

do you mean 'capiche'? Pass the calimari, old Dave's going all Siciliano on
us, now!

It bothers me that a determined minority can turn our justice
system and corrections system into a hellish nightmare for the
majority of law abiders and law breakers, based on their need to
protect a few monsters that they personally would be too gutless to
guard, or even have the stomach to look at a photo of the victims, and
parade their hypocracy as if they were morally superior.

my, my!! Didn't we get our righteous indignation up today? Spare me. Active
minorities have fostered change, for better or worse, in our society since,
well since forever. You can't cherry pick which issues can and cannot be
raised, IMO.

Don't even know what the F--- this means. As a kid I had goats and
chickens, and dogs. We ate the chickens (and rabbits and pheasants and
an occasional squirrel if hungry enough) and drank the goat milk. If
guinea pigs weren't rat like, or you could have milked them I would
have . . . . whatever.

we had guinea pigs around when I was a kid. Dogs and horses, too. We ate
none of them, and I wouldn't recommend milking a dog, FWIW.

yeesh, as they
say...
Tom

On Mar 16, 5:26*pm, "Tom Littleton" wrote:
"DaveS" wrote in message

...

Who said anyone should be denied a trial and a lawyer.

You were. Or, at least suggesting denying legal appeals.

Listen up . . .

we're reading here, not listening. But, carry on......

I said defending murderers CONVICTED of AGGRAVATED murder. Convicted

means they have ALREADY had their trial. I didn't say they shouldn't
work thru the political process to change the law. if thats their
issue. And I didn't say folk shouldn't vote whatever way they choose.

still, you implied that folks shouldn't be allowed to exercise legal means
to prevent exectutions, if I read you correctly. As if executing someone
like the person you cite, was going to deter the next deranged soul from
doing something equally heinous. You almost seem to have some sick sort of
blood lust going on this matter.

Capisch?

do you mean 'capiche'? *Pass the calimari, old Dave's going all Siciliano on
us, now!

It bothers me that a determined minority can turn our justice

system and corrections system into a hellish nightmare for the
majority of law abiders and law breakers, based on their need to
protect a few monsters that they personally would be too gutless to
guard, or even have the stomach to look at a photo of the victims, and

parade their hypocracy as if they were morally superior.

my, my!! Didn't we get our righteous indignation up today? Spare me. Active
minorities have fostered change, for better or worse, in our society since,
well since forever. You can't cherry pick which issues can and cannot be
raised, IMO.

Don't even know what the F--- this means. As a kid I had goats and

chickens, and dogs. We ate the chickens (and rabbits and pheasants and
an occasional squirrel if hungry enough) and drank the goat milk. If
guinea pigs weren't rat like, or you could have milked them I would

have . . . . whatever.

we had guinea pigs around when I was a kid. Dogs and horses, too. We ate
none of them, and I wouldn't recommend milking a dog, FWIW.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *yeesh, as they
say...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Tom

Executing monsters convicted of aggravated murder certainly does
prevent them from killing other prisoners and guards. That is who they
kill AFTER the bleeding hearts go home and there are no more billable
hours to suck out of public defender budgets. Or maybe no one is
murdered in the prisons in Pennsylvania? Who do you think kills in
prison and effectively turns some petty criminals' burglary, drug or
fraud conviction, into a death sentence? When the State is frustrated
in carrying out its death sentence for AGGRAVATED MURDER, the death
sentence is just passed on to the other prisoners and guards these men
prey upon in prison. Think about that for a moment.

My blood lust? What about the blood lust of the antis who think
nothing of the murdered victims who their protected monsters continue
to kill in prison? I've known 2 murderers and suspected another. Both
threatened me. One even tried to sue me. I faced one down and the
other suceeded in intimidating me. Criminals are one of the side
dishes if you work in the human services world. The one I suspected is
still running loose. And Ive been retired for 8 years. Criminals are a
major negative factor in the efficiency and effectiveness of US human
services.

And Tom, if murderers are so immune to discouragement by capital
punishment, why do most fight execution so much? Anyone who says that
a real threat to kill (or execute) is not scary, is a fool or has not
really been threatened. Being fearful for your life is an effective
motivator whether you believe it or not. It may be the only thing some
murderous assholes do understand. Sadly enough.

Dave

"DaveS" wrote in message
...
Or maybe no one is
murdered in the prisons in Pennsylvania? Who do you think kills in
prison and effectively turns some petty criminals' burglary, drug or
fraud conviction, into a death sentence?

generally a gang member or the like. The real fruitcakes are avoided like
the plague by the general prison population. Ask someone who works in a
prison, or was incarcerated in one.


When the State is frustrated
in carrying out its death sentence for AGGRAVATED MURDER, the death
sentence is just passed on to the other prisoners and guards these men
prey upon in prison. Think about that for a moment.

I did. And, I think you have no clue what you are talking about.

My blood lust? What about the blood lust of the antis who think
nothing of the murdered victims who their protected monsters continue
to kill in prison? I've known 2 murderers and suspected another. Both
threatened me. One even tried to sue me. I faced one down and the
other suceeded in intimidating me. Criminals are one of the side
dishes if you work in the human services world. The one I suspected is
still running loose. And Ive been retired for 8 years.

criminals are part of living in society. Don't flatter yourself that you
share the problem more than the average individual, as I suspect you do not.


Criminals are a
major negative factor in the efficiency and effectiveness of US human
services.

the depth of this insight astounds me. To the point of wishing to stand on a
table and yell, "No ****?!!"

And Tom, if murderers are so immune to discouragement by capital
punishment, why do most fight execution so much?

because they don't wish to die?? Were they deterred from committing the
crime?


Anyone who says that
a real threat to kill (or execute) is not scary, is a fool or has not
really been threatened. Being fearful for your life is an effective
motivator whether you believe it or not. It may be the only thing some
murderous assholes do understand. Sadly enough.

you cite a case where the perpetrator is clearly mentally disturbed. Those
individuals are not deterred by the thought of a death penalty IN THE LEAST.
You seem utterly clueless of this fact, and it is a fact.

Tom

DaveS wrote:

... based on their need to
protect a few monsters that they personally would be too gutless to
guard, or even have the stomach to look at a photo of the victims, and
parade their hypocracy as if they were morally superior.


though i concede enough experience with such comments to justify being
numbed to them, i still feel a fresh and painful surprise at statements
like yours... notwithstanding your heroic offer to use a baseball bat to
impose the death penalty personally and on a volunteer basis. i suppose
you would require your "monster" to be strapped to the gurney as you
accomplished your public service, or will you do it while he sleeps?

moral superiority?? "hypocracy" [sic]?? ...

jeff

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:22:06 -0400, jeff wrote:

DaveS wrote:

... based on their need to
protect a few monsters that they personally would be too gutless to
guard, or even have the stomach to look at a photo of the victims, and
parade their hypocracy as if they were morally superior.


though i concede enough experience with such comments to justify being
numbed to them, i still feel a fresh and painful surprise at statements
like yours... notwithstanding your heroic offer to use a baseball bat to
impose the death penalty personally and on a volunteer basis. i suppose
you would require your "monster" to be strapped to the gurney as you
accomplished your public service, or will you do it while he sleeps?

moral superiority?? "hypocracy" [sic]?? ...

jeff

Is this part of your pro bongo work?

TC,
R
....I'm tellin' ya, Matt McConaughey needs the work, dammit!

wrote in message
...
Is this part of your pro bongo work?


Bongo? This thread needs more cowbell.
Tom