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On Sep 22, 6:40*pm, Frank Reid wrote:
I am still going to kill most of it if I can.- Hide quoted text - I mowed it and then walked around with Roundup and spot treated the plants I could find (they make a nice, flat bullseye). *I wanted to use my torch, but there was too much dead material out there. *It might work after a good rain. *I just put a 20lb propane tank on my dolly and haul it around when I need to torch something. I really don't like thistle or burs of any kind. *My neighbor has a real bad infestation of sand burs and shatter cane. *I've got the cockle burs, button weed, and Canada thistle. *Its a fight, but I WILL win. Frank The spot treatment could work on my test plot. Wonder if a hoe would work. ie does this stuff typically re-emerge for the root remanant left by spot hoeing? Over here in Western Wa., we have to pull Scotchbroom out, roots and all to get control. Ditto with Mongolian blackberry. Dave |
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In message
, Frank Reid writes *What a worrying combination - Frank- plus- propane-plus torch !!! Not that I would do this, but I've "heard" that if you turn of the flame and point the torch down a ground squirrel hole, let it run, then light it after a bit, you'll get a shot of flame coming out then a really cool "thwump" that you can feel through your feet. I can say that the old tennis ball cannons made with duct tape, soda cans and lighter fluid have nothing on a ground squirrel den full of propane and the ejecta had a little football helmet on for the ride. Frank "yah can't make this stuff up" Reid Fascinating way to hunt :-)....Smacks of Mythbusters! -- Bill Grey |
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On Sep 22, 10:58*pm, JR wrote:
Giles wrote: ...........The property on which most of this activity is taking place, (officially about 70 acres.....but topography renders it more like 85-90 in reality) is a ****in' goldmine! There's also some oak, hickory, black cherry, various conifers.....um.....and some other stuff. g. who will happily provide more conservation details for those ROFFians who want to know. Please. *And history of the land, too, if you know it. I don't know much about the precise details of the land use, but it's fairly typical for the region. But first, a little bit of prehistory. The coulee country of southwestern Wisconsin is dominated by steep hills cut through by a dendritic drainage pattern. These are very old hills, the stumps of ancient mountains composed primarily of sandstones and limestones of ancient seabeds.....well, at least the parts that are left. The area was spared the levelling effect of the last continental glaciation, thus explaining the rugged terrain where most of the rest of the state was sanded to a relatively smooth finish. The earliest Europeans to enter the region were French fur traders and Jesuit missionaries who were much less interested in establishing permanent colonial settlements than in extracting the wealth of the land and sending it back to the motherland. Hence, they had little effect on the land beyond denuding it of fur bearing animals and making it nearly impossible for modern travelers to approach any damp spot anywhere in Michigan, Wisconsin, or northern Illinois without tripping over "Marquette" or "Joliet" something or other. Next came the Cornish miners....the "Badgers" reponsible for the University of Wisconsin's mascot and the sobriquet, "the badger state." They, too, left little lasting impression on the land. Unlike the Spaniards in other portions of North America, these stalwart and simple folk were not lured by fables of golden cities.....it was base metals they were after. Rather, one particular base metal which, if the alchemists had had their way, would have been the raw material from which the Spanish would have had riches beyond their wildest dreams.....lead. They got their lead and left some holes in the ground. And pasties. And then came the first of the plagues, the loggers. In their wake they left a devastation that appalled even the relatively ecologically insensitive citizens of the nineteenth century. By this time photography was widespread enough that no one needed to exercise any imagination aided by even the finest of prose to get a good sense of the impact of the carnage. Surreal landscapes dominated by broken stumps and discarded trash (trash by the standards of the time which would be deemed valuable lumber today) where once there had been a forest so vast that most people of the time seriously believed that the resource could NEVER be exhausted. All gone in a decade or two. Even so, there is reason to suppose that the land could have healed itself.....in time.....if left alone. But then came the GREAT plague.....the farmers and grazers. Even the greediest of timber barons will leave a clear-cut landscape alone for twenty to fifty years, depending on which species dominate. The honest plowman and shepherd rape the land anew, every year. That's about where this particular plot of land stood until twenty years ago. Now things are different. Not a forest, mind you, not a complex ecosystem that has time to work out a web of interdependencies and myriad conflicts, but at least a plot that isn't reinvented along a poorly thought out agenda each and every year. The oldest of the walnuts are now about forty feet in height and twelve to fourteen inches dbh. They would have had larger crowns by now, and greater diameter, if they had been properly thinned as they grew.....we learn, given enough time. The oldest of the chestnuts are a sight to behold. A few of them are doing very very well.....for extinct trees. The current champion stands fifty feet tall.....greatly overshadowing the walnuts and oaks of the same age surrounding it....and sixteen inches dbh, and this in a nineteen year old tree.....in an orchard which the blight has found its way to. Buttenuts are a recent addition, in response to yet another blight, one which promises to be even more deadly than that sufferred by the chestnuts; the butternut is in grave danger. However, certain hybrids with Japanese walnut and (perhaps more importantly) their offspring back-crossed with more American stock, show some promise of blight resistance, just as is true with Castanea dentata crosses with Chinese stock. In neither case, obviously, will the resultant survivors (if any) be pure American stock, but the generally held opinion is that it's better than nothing. Meanwhile, work goes on to save the pure American gene pool of both species till resistant strains can be found and propogated. Needless to say, opinions about the likely outcome vary considerably. The walnuts and hazelnuts are.....mercifully, for now.....free of major pests that threaten their very existence. Both are producers of highly nutritious and delicious nuts. The most serious impediment to a bountiful harvest is squirrels. But I've found a solution to this problem......hot lead.....the very substance that the Cornish miners brought of of the ground of this region is being slowly but steadily pumped back into it; I recently bought a scope for my fifty year old Remington 550 .22. The walnut has the added attraction of what it is really being grown for; it is one of the world's premier hardwoods, with outstanding mechanical characteristics, including excellent dimensional stability and shock resistence which, along with its great beauty, make it a great favorite for gunstocks. It also excels as veneer....and THAT is to be the ultimate fate of these trees. g. |
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Giles wrote:
On Sep 22, 10:58 pm, JR wrote: Giles wrote: ...........The property on which most of this activity is taking place, (officially about 70 acres.....but topography renders it more like 85-90 in reality) is a ****in' goldmine! There's also some oak, hickory, black cherry, various conifers.....um.....and some other stuff. g. who will happily provide more conservation details for those ROFFians who want to know. Please. And history of the land, too, if you know it. I don't know much about the precise details of the land use, but it's fairly typical for the region. But first, a little bit of prehistory. The coulee country of southwestern Wisconsin is dominated by steep hills cut through by a dendritic drainage pattern. These are very old hills, the stumps of ancient mountains composed primarily of sandstones and limestones of ancient seabeds.....well, at least the parts that are left. The area was spared the levelling effect of the last continental glaciation, thus explaining the rugged terrain where most of the rest of the state was sanded to a relatively smooth finish. The earliest Europeans to enter the region were French fur traders and Jesuit missionaries who were much less interested in establishing permanent colonial settlements than in extracting the wealth of the land and sending it back to the motherland. Hence, they had little effect on the land beyond denuding it of fur bearing animals and making it nearly impossible for modern travelers to approach any damp spot anywhere in Michigan, Wisconsin, or northern Illinois without tripping over "Marquette" or "Joliet" something or other. Next came the Cornish miners....the "Badgers" reponsible for the University of Wisconsin's mascot and the sobriquet, "the badger state." They, too, left little lasting impression on the land. Unlike the Spaniards in other portions of North America, these stalwart and simple folk were not lured by fables of golden cities.....it was base metals they were after. Rather, one particular base metal which, if the alchemists had had their way, would have been the raw material from which the Spanish would have had riches beyond their wildest dreams.....lead. They got their lead and left some holes in the ground. And pasties. And then came the first of the plagues, the loggers. In their wake they left a devastation that appalled even the relatively ecologically insensitive citizens of the nineteenth century. By this time photography was widespread enough that no one needed to exercise any imagination aided by even the finest of prose to get a good sense of the impact of the carnage. Surreal landscapes dominated by broken stumps and discarded trash (trash by the standards of the time which would be deemed valuable lumber today) where once there had been a forest so vast that most people of the time seriously believed that the resource could NEVER be exhausted. All gone in a decade or two. Even so, there is reason to suppose that the land could have healed itself.....in time.....if left alone. But then came the GREAT plague.....the farmers and grazers. Even the greediest of timber barons will leave a clear-cut landscape alone for twenty to fifty years, depending on which species dominate. The honest plowman and shepherd rape the land anew, every year. That's about where this particular plot of land stood until twenty years ago. Now things are different. Not a forest, mind you, not a complex ecosystem that has time to work out a web of interdependencies and myriad conflicts, but at least a plot that isn't reinvented along a poorly thought out agenda each and every year. The oldest of the walnuts are now about forty feet in height and twelve to fourteen inches dbh. They would have had larger crowns by now, and greater diameter, if they had been properly thinned as they grew.....we learn, given enough time. The oldest of the chestnuts are a sight to behold. A few of them are doing very very well.....for extinct trees. The current champion stands fifty feet tall.....greatly overshadowing the walnuts and oaks of the same age surrounding it....and sixteen inches dbh, and this in a nineteen year old tree.....in an orchard which the blight has found its way to. Buttenuts are a recent addition, in response to yet another blight, one which promises to be even more deadly than that sufferred by the chestnuts; the butternut is in grave danger. However, certain hybrids with Japanese walnut and (perhaps more importantly) their offspring back-crossed with more American stock, show some promise of blight resistance, just as is true with Castanea dentata crosses with Chinese stock. In neither case, obviously, will the resultant survivors (if any) be pure American stock, but the generally held opinion is that it's better than nothing. Meanwhile, work goes on to save the pure American gene pool of both species till resistant strains can be found and propogated. Needless to say, opinions about the likely outcome vary considerably. The walnuts and hazelnuts are.....mercifully, for now.....free of major pests that threaten their very existence. Both are producers of highly nutritious and delicious nuts. The most serious impediment to a bountiful harvest is squirrels. But I've found a solution to this problem......hot lead.....the very substance that the Cornish miners brought of of the ground of this region is being slowly but steadily pumped back into it; I recently bought a scope for my fifty year old Remington 550 .22. The walnut has the added attraction of what it is really being grown for; it is one of the world's premier hardwoods, with outstanding mechanical characteristics, including excellent dimensional stability and shock resistence which, along with its great beauty, make it a great favorite for gunstocks. It also excels as veneer....and THAT is to be the ultimate fate of these trees. g. story in today's news and observer...thought you might be interested. it made me think of our communication some time ago about the chestnuts you discovered up there...apparently out of the normal range i've read about. i was going to send to you before i read your note, but this provides the opportunity. if restored, the entire wildlife picture in the nc mountains could revitalize... http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/113994.html jeff |
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On Sep 23, 7:07*pm, Giles wrote:
On Sep 22, 10:58*pm, JR wrote: Giles wrote: ...........The property on which most of this activity is taking place, (officially about 70 acres.....but topography renders it more like 85-90 in reality) is a ****in' goldmine! There's also some oak, hickory, black cherry, various conifers.....um.....and some other stuff. g. who will happily provide more conservation details for those ROFFians who want to know. Please. *And history of the land, too, if you know it. I don't know much about the precise details of the land use, but it's fairly typical for the region. *But first, a little bit of prehistory. *The coulee country of southwestern Wisconsin is dominated by steep hills cut through by a dendritic drainage pattern. *These are very old hills, the stumps of ancient mountains composed primarily of sandstones and limestones of ancient seabeds.....well, at least the parts that are left. *The area was spared the levelling effect of the last continental glaciation, thus explaining the rugged terrain where most of the rest of the state was sanded to a relatively smooth finish. The earliest Europeans to enter the region were French fur traders and Jesuit missionaries who were much less interested in establishing permanent colonial settlements than in extracting the wealth of the land and sending it back to the motherland. *Hence, they had little effect on the land beyond denuding it of fur bearing animals and making it nearly impossible for modern travelers to approach any damp spot anywhere in Michigan, Wisconsin, or northern Illinois without tripping over "Marquette" or "Joliet" something or other. *Next came the Cornish miners....the "Badgers" reponsible for the University of Wisconsin's mascot and the sobriquet, "the badger state." *They, too, left little lasting impression on the land. *Unlike the Spaniards in other portions of North America, these stalwart and simple folk were not lured by fables of golden cities.....it was base metals they were after. *Rather, one particular base metal which, if the alchemists had had their way, would have been the raw material from which the Spanish would have had riches beyond their wildest dreams.....lead. *They got their lead and left some holes in the ground. *And pasties. And then came the first of the plagues, the loggers. *In their wake they left a devastation that appalled even the relatively ecologically insensitive citizens of the nineteenth century. *By this time photography was widespread enough that no one needed to exercise any imagination aided by even the finest of prose to get a good sense of the impact of the carnage. *Surreal landscapes dominated by broken stumps and discarded trash (trash by the standards of the time which would be deemed valuable lumber today) where once there had been a forest so vast that most people of the time seriously believed that the resource could NEVER be exhausted. *All gone in a decade or two. Even so, there is reason to suppose that the land could have healed itself.....in time.....if left alone. But then came the GREAT plague.....the farmers and grazers. *Even the greediest of timber barons will leave a clear-cut landscape alone for twenty to fifty years, depending on which species dominate. *The honest plowman and shepherd rape the land anew, every year. That's about where this particular plot of land stood until twenty years ago. *Now things are different. *Not a forest, mind you, not a complex ecosystem that has time to work out a web of interdependencies and myriad conflicts, but at least a plot that isn't reinvented along a poorly thought out agenda each and every year. *The oldest of the walnuts are now about forty feet in height and twelve to fourteen inches dbh. *They would have had larger crowns by now, and greater diameter, if they had been properly thinned as they grew.....we learn, given enough time. *The oldest of the chestnuts are a sight to behold. *A few of them are doing very very well.....for extinct trees. *The current champion stands fifty feet tall.....greatly overshadowing the walnuts and oaks of the same age surrounding it....and sixteen inches dbh, and this in a nineteen year old tree.....in an orchard which the blight has found its way to. Buttenuts are a recent addition, in response to yet another blight, one which promises to be even more deadly than that sufferred by the chestnuts; the butternut is in grave danger. *However, certain hybrids with Japanese walnut and (perhaps more importantly) their offspring back-crossed with more American stock, show some promise of blight resistance, just as is true with Castanea dentata crosses with Chinese stock. *In neither case, obviously, will the resultant survivors (if any) be pure American stock, but the generally held opinion is that it's better than nothing. *Meanwhile, work goes on to save the pure American gene pool of both species till resistant strains can be found and propogated. *Needless to say, opinions about the likely outcome vary considerably. The walnuts and hazelnuts are.....mercifully, for now.....free of major pests that threaten their very existence. *Both are producers of highly nutritious and delicious nuts. *The most serious impediment to a bountiful harvest is squirrels. *But I've found a solution to this problem......hot lead.....the very substance that the Cornish miners brought of of the ground of this region is being slowly but steadily pumped back into it; I recently bought a scope for my fifty year old Remington 550 .22. *The walnut has the added attraction of what it is really being grown for; it is one of the world's premier hardwoods, with outstanding mechanical characteristics, including excellent dimensional stability and shock resistence which, along with its great beauty, make it a great favorite for gunstocks. *It also excels as veneer....and THAT is to be the ultimate fate of these trees. g. Thanx. I assume you've done some tree planting on this property; what has worked best in keeping the critters from killing your hardwood saplings? Between the rodents and the deer, for the ponderosa Im facing having to go larger sizes, plastic net a foot or so up the stem and then a wire cage. That really limits the number I can do each year. Ideas? Dave |
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On Sep 24, 8:02*am, jeff wrote:
story in today's news and observer...thought you might be interested. it made me think of our communication some time ago about the chestnuts you discovered up there...apparently out of the normal range i've read about. *i was going to send to you before i read your note, but this provides the opportunity. *if restored, the entire wildlife picture in the nc mountains could revitalize... http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/113994.html The American Chestnut Foundation has been in the forefront of efforts to save the tree for a long time. It's interesting to see that they are betting on modern genetic technology these days; for a long time they were staunch advocates of hypovirulence....infecting the offending fungus with a pathogen of its own, a virus. The idea looked promising for a time but with 30 or more strains of the fungus around, it didn't pan out as expected. Hasn't been entirely discarded though, or, not last I heard anyway. Meanwhile, others are banking on the (admittedly miraculous) appearance of a resistant native. This strategy depends at least in part on maintaining a diverse genetic stock. This, in turn, depends at least in part ( a very large part) on isolation. Thus, there are a great many more native chestnuts out there than ANYONE knows about.....a lot of people aren't talking, and they have my complete sympathy....and cooperation, insofar as it is mine to give. I will say only that the article is somewhat in error in the implication that the blight inevitably strikes all trees ten years of age or older. I know of, and have personally seen, 54 year old specimens, easily accessible to the general public (as well as to the scientists who are justifiably suspected of having infected many a formerly blight free stand merely by showing up in their spore laden clothing and boots) and visited by tens of thousands of people every year.....albeit only a minuscule percentage of them have any idea of what they are seeing and its import. This story, like most that are worth telling or hearing, gets even more complicated. Like any other human venture, efforts to save the chestnut are endlessly controversial for a host of reasons, not least of which is the fact that a lot of glory (and, in these meticulously patented days, a LOT of bucks) is riding on the outcome for the winners. There are many camps. Among the most obvious (without naming names) are those that jealousy (if not necessarily effectively) guard their own substantial interests, and those profligate fools who would disseminate whatever they can get their unwashed little hands on. You want drama? You want intrigue? You want smiling faces hiding the evil that lurks within? ![]() g. it's about the trees......uh huh. p.s. those 54 year old natives are prolific nut producers.....every year. one of the features that made.....no, still makes.....Castanea dentata an extraordinary tree. anyone familiar with commercially important fruit producing trees will understand why. p.p.s. thanks for the heads up, jeff. |
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On Sep 24, 1:05*pm, DaveS wrote:
Thanx. You're welxome. I assume you've done some tree planting on this property; what has worked best in keeping the critters from killing your hardwood saplings? Between the rodents and the deer, for the ponderosa Im facing having to go larger sizes, plastic net a foot or so up the stem and then a wire cage. That really limits the number I can do each year. Ideas? Pratically speaking, there are exactly two effective methods for dealing with deer: 1. shoot them on sight, 2. fencing, a minimum of 8 ft. high. In other words, an 8 ft. (there is no practical maximum height outside the realm of theoretical engineering.....but why go into all that esoteric ****, anyway.....right?) fence is about it. I mean, shooting WORKS.....but the neighbors and the DNR get all testy and ****, ainna? Rodents are another matter. Aside from squirrels (which have been dealt with elsewhere.....or are being dealt with, anyway) bio- or helio- or oxy-degradable cones, about eighteen inches tall and set flush with the ground.....with no discernable gaps.....have worked very well. Actually, they really don't have to be degradable at all. That's just a nice feature if your too old and decrepit or lazy to go out and retrieve them every few years. The most recent planting, "the butternut orchard" (which, inevitably, also contains some chestnut hybrids and, not so inevitably, also a goodly number of volunteer hazels) comprises about 10 acres and is surrounded by a fence of 1 inch mesh cheap plastic **** of some sort......deer don't know their own strength. The squirrels leave this pretty much alone because there is, thus far, nothing much in there to interest them. Oh, there are a few butternuts (grafting is cool.....you got a 1 year old tree that thinks it's five or nine and thus puts out nuts on branches 12 to 15 inches above ground level), but the whole orchard is surrounded by much older plantings, as well as "wild forest" that hasn't been touched.....yet. Plenty of distractions for tree rats. Somewhat counter-intuitively, perhaps, the greatest vertebrate pest at this stage of the game is.....moles. They are meat eaters, if memory serves, but their incessant tunneling in pursuit of worms and other icky fare is highly disruptive to juvenile root systems. They kill a lot of seedlings and whips. Not much to be done about it, as far as I know, except to stomp on the tunnels wherever and whenever found, and hope there's a mole head somewhere under the heel. The bottom line is that you learn to live with, or you die with, your limitations. g. frost, now, THAT's a whole 'nother problem. |
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On Sep 24, 8:04*pm, Giles wrote:
On Sep 24, 1:05*pm, DaveS wrote: Thanx. You're welxome. I assume you've done some tree planting on this property; what has worked best in keeping the critters from killing your hardwood saplings? Between the rodents and the deer, for the ponderosa Im facing having to go larger sizes, plastic net a foot or so up the stem and then a wire cage. That really limits the number I can do each year. Ideas? Pratically speaking, there are exactly two effective methods for dealing with deer: 1. *shoot them on sight, 2. *fencing, a minimum of 8 ft. high. *In other words, an 8 ft. (there is no practical maximum height outside the realm of theoretical engineering.....but why go into all that esoteric ****, anyway.....right?) *fence is about it. *I mean, shooting WORKS.....but the neighbors and the DNR get all testy and ****, ainna? *Rodents are another matter. *Aside from squirrels (which have been dealt with elsewhere.....or are being dealt with, anyway) bio- or helio- or oxy-degradable cones, about eighteen inches tall and set flush with the ground.....with no discernable gaps.....have worked very well. *Actually, they really don't have to be degradable at all. *That's just a nice feature if your too old and decrepit or lazy to go out and retrieve them every few years. The most recent planting, "the butternut orchard" (which, inevitably, also contains some chestnut hybrids and, not so inevitably, also a goodly number of volunteer hazels) comprises about 10 acres and is surrounded by a fence of 1 inch mesh cheap plastic **** of some sort......deer don't know their own strength. *The squirrels leave this pretty much alone because there is, thus far, nothing much in there to interest them. *Oh, there are a few butternuts (grafting is cool.....you got a 1 year old tree that thinks it's five or nine and thus puts out nuts on branches 12 to 15 inches above ground level), but the whole orchard is surrounded by much older plantings, as well as "wild forest" that hasn't been touched.....yet. *Plenty of distractions for tree rats. Somewhat counter-intuitively, perhaps, the greatest vertebrate pest at this stage of the game is.....moles. *They are meat eaters, if memory serves, but their incessant tunneling in pursuit of worms and other icky fare is highly disruptive to juvenile root systems. *They kill a lot of seedlings and whips. *Not much to be done about it, as far as I know, except to stomp on the tunnels wherever and whenever found, and hope there's a mole head somewhere under the heel. The bottom line is that you learn to live with, or you die with, your limitations. g. frost, now, THAT's a whole 'nother problem. On the Fencing thing. . . . On my Western Wa apple trees I have to install a stout cage around each tree, and prune off all lower branches until the trees are tall enough so the deer have to rear up to reach the tender new growth on the branches. When i don't do this, the deer manage the trees for brouse. I use welded wire about 6', tied to a driven metal fence post. The bucks will also kill new trees by honing their horns on the stems like an old fashioned razor stroup. *******s. For gardens or diverting deer travel patterns, the most effective fence Ive found is a 6' high, double fence line, about 5 to 8 foot apart. The deer don't seem to want to jump into a confined space. This also seems to apply to SOs rose garden, which is long and narrow with welded stock panels used as fence. They brouse the fence line but won't jump in. Never had any luck with cayenne, coyote or cougar ****, etc. Dave |
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![]() On 25-Sep-2009, DaveS wrote: Never had any luck with cayenne, coyote or cougar ****, etc. Dave We have had luck w fences (of course) and pepper mixed w vinegar around our trees, shrubs, garden , flowers and other plants we do not want eaten In the evening (we have to keep our standard poodle in as she chases deer) there are about 100-200 deer in our fields. Its bow season and rifle soon but we allow NO hunting on our property Fred |
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On Sep 25, 12:27*pm, DaveS wrote:
On the Fencing thing. . . . On my Western Wa apple trees I have to install a stout cage around each tree, and prune off all lower branches until the trees are tall enough so the deer have to rear up to reach the tender new growth on the branches. When i don't do this, the deer manage the trees for brouse. I use welded wire about 6', tied to a driven metal fence post. Whether to cage individual trees or fence the whole orchard is a numbers game. If you've got half a dozen trees, cage them. If you you've got twenty acres of dense planting, fence the whole thing. The bucks will also kill new trees by honing their horns on the stems like an old fashioned razor stroup. *******s. I've talked to someone recently who insists that for some reason the bucks prefer butternut over all others. He theorizes that something in the bark of these trees provides the deer with relief from bleeding, itching, or who knows what. I remain skeptical. If they do indeed prefer butternut to other trees, I'm inclined to think that maybe they think it smells good or something. After all, what do the deer do for styptics in areas where no butternut grows (which is increasingly becoming just about everywhere)? For gardens or diverting deer travel patterns, the most effective fence Ive found is a 6' high, double fence line, about 5 to 8 foot apart. The deer don't seem to want to jump into a confined space. Make it couple of feet higher and they won't jump it.....even without the inner layer. Cheaper, space saving, and just as effective. This also seems to apply to SOs rose garden, which is long and narrow with welded stock panels used as fence. They brouse the fence line but won't jump in. The confined space is undoubtedly a factor, but so is food preference. Give them something they like better than roses on the outside and they've got no good reason to come inside. Never had any luck with cayenne, coyote or cougar ****, etc. I very much doubt that coyotes present enough of a threat to deer to act as a deterent. They coexist in significant numbers around here and pretty much everywhere else I've been. The cougar **** should be very effective......if fresh. Which is to say that a resident cougar would keep the deer away.....but they're going to catch on to stale, bottled **** pretty quickly. I have no idea of what deer think of cayenne, but I'm pretty sure there isn't enough of it in the world to make it cheap enough to keep everything on a large plot of land effectively dosed. Besides, fencing works.....and you don't have to rebuild after every rainfall or breeze. giles |
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