Q: North America in Jul-Aug

"Mark Bowen" wrote in message
...

Roger,

I'd be more than happy to ship my campin' gear to where ever you end up
travelin' to. I have some pretty decent lightweight gear that I bought to
hang out with Wolfgang and Asadi back in 2000. Bivy style tent, less than
5 lbs. (Mountain Hardware), SlumberJack sleepin'
bags--separating--bag-in-bag design, good to -30 fahren., Primus stove,
Ther-o-rest pad, Pure Hiker water filter.

Let me know your plans and I will be happy to help out, with no worries if
unexpected things happen to gear--I'm not one to fret such matters. I'd
ship everything in a reusable shipping container and you would merely have
to ship it back to me--I'll eve pay return shipping!

Mark


Oops, sorry for the reply to my own post, but I forgot to mention.

If you have a list of campin' items that you generally take, send me the
list and i will see to it that you get it. You know: huntin' knife, first
aid kit, Bear Spray, handguns, Rifles, sorry--no grenades. Just let me know.

Mark

angler wrote:
On 4 Nov, 01:37, Larry L wrote:
On Nov 3, 3:04 pm, jeff wrote:

. a hike of a few miles leaves the vehicular-bound

way behind and affords a glimpse of an entirely different world.
I think the difference between the hike to and non-hike to is greater
in Yellowstone than elsewhere. Probably the fear of the big bad
bear and the fact that millions think seeing Yellowstone is driving
all the roads in as little time as possible, makes the zone beyond the
roads more exciting than in, say, the Sierra

Last time I fished Slough ( down at the first easy access meadow ) I
ran into fresh bear tracks and when I returned to my truck brand new
"Grizzly Bear Activity" signs not there a few hours earlier ( seems
two anglers had stumbled on a Elk kill and been bluff charged, very
near where I had fished). Add the howling of the Slough Creek pack
of wolves and my mini-hike was an adventure far beyond the Cutts
caught ... fact is I don't remember what I caught ( probably 16 to 20
inch Cutthroats, .... all day ;-) ...

A little note from the Swede: We don't have Grizzlys, they look scary!
Last time I checked we had some 3.500-4.000 brown bears in Sweden,
about 10% of which can be found in the county where I live (I hunt for
them). And although they are bigger than your black bears they are
still so much smaller than a Grizzly. Which gives me reason to think
about carefully listening to the locals if visiting Yellowstone. Don't
want to end my days as bear food.
But, when it comes to hiking and camping in the wilderness I will go
out on a limb and say that very few of you probably spend more time
than me doing such activities, why I would be pleased to see some of
what Yellowstone can offer outside of the normal tourist paths. That
said, I will likely not be able to bring gear to do any overnight
camping but will need a place to stay. The sheer cost (and nuisance)
of bringing the camping gear on a plane is not acceptable.
As this discussion proceed it would be good to have a more definite
"where and when", since it will take some planning to get from here to
Yellowstone.
Then, later on, comes all the fun, planning for what flies I'll need
and so on.
Let's try and make this happen................

/Roger

my suggestion is that you, jarmo, and your crowd decide on the dates
that suit you. then, give some idea of budget and travel and lodging
preferences. once that is done, you'll have plenty of volunteered ideas.
if danl and willi and rw come, they probably have spare tents and bags.
i know warren, who lives in bozeman and has a drift boat, will help you
too. simply put...you guys can pretty much call the game and no doubt
others will assist.

if yellowstone is the central destination, there are 5 separate (and
distant) entrance points to the park - each with places to stay.
reservations need to be made soon if you want conventional lodging. my
usual and preferred location is about 30 miles west of west yellowstone,
at the slide inn or at the howling mad moon, just because i know my way
around from there and it affords a nice variety. i like warm showers and
a soft bed too...and i usually see danl and harry mason when i'm out
there. i also like the access to idaho - henrys fork and other tribs -
as well as the madison tribs. it's a long way from slough creek, soda
butte, pebble, and some other spots...but we've always managed to fish
them in a day trip (long day). i've stayed outside the southern entrance
to the park once, but not as familiar with it (lewis river and snake
river, and some smaller wyoming streams down there.) the teton park is
several hours south of there, but worth a look if you have time.

ken and others have more experience with gardiner (north) and cooke city
(northeast)area entrance points. west yellowstone (west entrance)is a
tourist town and the most tourist-oriented and crowded...but with great
flyshops - the blue ribbon among them (my preferred spot).

a group can find a suitable cabin or individual rooms near any of the
entrances preferred. but, you need to start now. one idea might be for
a group to rent a large cabin as a central location for day trips.

jeff

angler wrote:
...
As this discussion proceed it would be good to have a more definite
"where and when", since it will take some planning to get from here to
Yellowstone.
Then, later on, comes all the fun, planning for what flies I'll need
and so on.
Let's try and make this happen................

If Greater Yellowstone is the "where" then someone ought to
choose a "when" in the very near term. July-August is the
peak of the tourist season and while it is relatively easy
to hike away from the crowds finding lodging is a different
story.

I would imagine most folks on this side of the pond are like
myself and fairly flexible on the dates so I'd say the ball
is in your and Jarmo's court as far as choosing the dates.

If Yellowstone is the destination, there are plenty of folks
here who know their way around so you should have no problem
finding someone to share a cabin and a stream.

As for the Grizzly bears, I offer this quote from the National
Park Service website:

* Injury Table
From 1980-2002, over 62 million people visited Yellowstone National
Park (YNP). During the same period, 32 people were injured by bears.
The chance of being injured by a bear while in the park is
approximately 1 in 1.9 million.

--
Ken Fortenberry

Ken Fortenberry wrote:

As for the Grizzly bears, I offer this quote from the National
Park Service website:

* Injury Table
From 1980-2002, over 62 million people visited Yellowstone National
Park (YNP). During the same period, 32 people were injured by bears.
The chance of being injured by a bear while in the park is
approximately 1 in 1.9 million.

Most people who visit Yellowstone rarely get out of their cars, so
that's a meaningless statistic for someone hiking the backcountry in
known grizzly territory -- like Slough Creek. The risk is still
acceptable, IMO.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On 4 Nov, 14:24, "Mark Bowen" wrote:
"angler" wrote in message

...
On 4 Nov, 01:37, Larry L wrote:



On Nov 3, 3:04 pm, jeff wrote:

. a hike of a few miles leaves the vehicular-bound

way behind and affords a glimpse of an entirely different world.

I think the difference between the hike to and non-hike to is greater
in Yellowstone than elsewhere. Probably the fear of the big bad
bear and the fact that millions think seeing Yellowstone is driving
all the roads in as little time as possible, makes the zone beyond the
roads more exciting than in, say, the Sierra

Last time I fished Slough ( down at the first easy access meadow ) I
ran into fresh bear tracks and when I returned to my truck brand new
"Grizzly Bear Activity" signs not there a few hours earlier ( seems
two anglers had stumbled on a Elk kill and been bluff charged, very
near where I had fished). Add the howling of the Slough Creek pack
of wolves and my mini-hike was an adventure far beyond the Cutts
caught ... fact is I don't remember what I caught ( probably 16 to 20
inch Cutthroats, .... all day ;-) ...

A little note from the Swede: We don't have Grizzlys, they look scary!
Last time I checked we had some 3.500-4.000 brown bears in Sweden,
about 10% of which can be found in the county where I live (I hunt for
them). And although they are bigger than your black bears they are
still so much smaller than a Grizzly. Which gives me reason to think
about carefully listening to the locals if visiting Yellowstone. Don't
want to end my days as bear food.
But, when it comes to hiking and camping in the wilderness I will go
out on a limb and say that very few of you probably spend more time
than me doing such activities, why I would be pleased to see some of
what Yellowstone can offer outside of the normal tourist paths. That
said, I will likely not be able to bring gear to do any overnight
camping but will need a place to stay. The sheer cost (and nuisance)
of bringing the camping gear on a plane is not acceptable.
As this discussion proceed it would be good to have a more definite
"where and when", since it will take some planning to get from here to
Yellowstone.
Then, later on, comes all the fun, planning for what flies I'll need
and so on.
Let's try and make this happen................

/Roger

Roger,

I'd be more than happy to ship my campin' gear to where ever you end up
travelin' to. I have some pretty decent lightweight gear that I bought to
hang out with Wolfgang and Asadi back in 2000. Bivy style tent, less than 5
lbs. (Mountain Hardware), SlumberJack sleepin' bags--separating--bag-in-bag
design, good to -30 fahren., Primus stove, Ther-o-rest pad, Pure Hiker water
filter.

Let me know your plans and I will be happy to help out, with no worries if
unexpected things happen to gear--I'm not one to fret such matters. I'd ship
everything in a reusable shipping container and you would merely have to
ship it back to me--I'll eve pay return shipping!

Mark

Mark,

Thank you for the offer, and possibly, if someone else also feels it's
a good idea, it is something that could be done.
Anyway, once the where and when is settled (I saw Jeff suggest that
Jarmo and me make a suggestion on when) it will be easier to plan
details.

/Roger

On 4 Nov, 14:39, jeff wrote:
angler wrote:
On 4 Nov, 01:37, Larry L wrote:
On Nov 3, 3:04 pm, jeff wrote:

. a hike of a few miles leaves the vehicular-bound

way behind and affords a glimpse of an entirely different world.
I think the difference between the hike to and non-hike to is greater
in Yellowstone than elsewhere. * *Probably the fear of the big bad
bear and the fact that millions think seeing Yellowstone is driving
all the roads in as little time as possible, makes the zone beyond the
roads more exciting than in, say, the Sierra

Last time I fished Slough ( down at the first easy access meadow ) I
ran into fresh bear tracks and when I returned to my truck brand new
"Grizzly Bear Activity" signs not there a few hours earlier ( seems
two anglers had stumbled on a Elk kill and been bluff charged, very
near where I had fished). * Add the howling of the Slough Creek pack
of wolves and my mini-hike was an adventure far beyond the Cutts
caught ... fact is I don't remember what I caught ( probably 16 to 20
inch Cutthroats, .... all day ;-) ...

A little note from the Swede: We don't have Grizzlys, they look scary!
Last time I checked we had some 3.500-4.000 brown bears in Sweden,
about 10% of which can be found in the county where I live (I hunt for
them). And although they are bigger than your black bears they are
still so much smaller than a Grizzly. Which gives me reason to think
about carefully listening to the locals if visiting Yellowstone. Don't
want to end my days as bear food.
But, when it comes to hiking and camping in the wilderness I will go
out on a limb and say that very few of you probably spend more time
than me doing such activities, why I would be pleased to see some of
what Yellowstone can offer outside of the normal tourist paths. That
said, I will likely not be able to bring gear to do any overnight
camping but will need a place to stay. The sheer cost (and nuisance)
of bringing the camping gear on a plane is not acceptable.
As this discussion proceed it would be good to have a more definite
"where and when", since it will take some planning to get from here to
Yellowstone.
Then, later on, comes all the fun, planning for what flies I'll need
and so on.
Let's try and make this happen................

/Roger

my suggestion is that you, jarmo, and your crowd decide on the dates
that suit you. then, give some idea of budget and travel and lodging
preferences. once that is done, you'll have plenty of volunteered ideas.
if danl and willi and rw come, they probably have spare tents and bags.
i know warren, who lives in bozeman and has a drift boat, will help you
too. simply put...you guys can pretty much call the game and no doubt
others will assist.

if yellowstone is the central destination, there are 5 separate (and
distant) entrance points to the park - each with places to stay.
reservations need to be made soon if you want conventional lodging. my
usual and preferred location is about 30 miles west of west yellowstone,
at the slide inn or at the howling mad moon, just because i know my way
around from there and it affords a nice variety. i like warm showers and
a soft bed too...and i usually see danl and harry mason when i'm out
there. i also like the access to idaho - henrys fork and other tribs -
as well as the madison tribs. it's a long way from slough creek, soda
butte, pebble, and some other spots...but we've always managed to fish
them in a day trip (long day). i've stayed outside the southern entrance
to the park once, but not as familiar with it (lewis river and snake
river, and some smaller wyoming streams down there.) the teton park is
several hours south of there, but worth a look if you have time.

ken and others have more experience with gardiner (north) and cooke city
(northeast)area entrance points. *west yellowstone (west entrance)is a
tourist town and the most tourist-oriented and crowded...but with great
flyshops - the blue ribbon among them (my preferred spot).

a group can find a suitable cabin or individual rooms near any of the
entrances preferred. *but, you need to start now. *one idea might be for
a group to rent a large cabin as a central location for day trips.

jeff

Ok, it is not possible for me to be away from home 1:st week of July
or 2:nd week of August. But since it is more than 6 months away in
time I think I can be fairly flexible regarding all the weeks in
between. Jarmo?
Oh, and it will be hard for me to spend more than up to 9 days.

/Roger

Roger Ok, it is not possible for me to be away from home 1:st week of
Roger July or 2:nd week of August. But since it is more than 6 months
Roger away in time I think I can be fairly flexible regarding all the
Roger weeks in between. Jarmo?

I'm pretty flexible - until 2nd week of August, I think - but at least
earlier the timetables of my friends were pretty much limited to the end
of July and beginning of August. I have not yet received a response from
them regarding these latest plans.

A few notes about other issues that have been discussed he
- For me the optimal accommodation would be a motorhome. It would
provide flexibility if conditions would require a change of location.
- I don't mind seeing other fishermen on the same river, but I would
willingly choose a less crowded river even if it meant smaller /
fewer fish. With this in mind, spending at least part of the time in
other location than Yellowstone sounds tempting. Maybe it could be
northern Montana / southeast BC?

--
Jarmo Hurri

Remove all garbage from header email address when replying, or just
use .

On Nov 4, 10:52*am, Jarmo Hurri wrote:


.. Maybe it could be
* northern Montana / southeast BC?



One thing I keep wanting to say but haven't yet
IS

the 'good fishing' zone within the area defined as Montana/Idaho/
Wyoming/Alberta

IS HUGE ...

seeing it all in one or two or three or five trips, , or trying
to, ... is, imho, a mistake

as Jeff has said, even within day trip distance of West Yellowstone
there is more water than a lifetime of vacations could cover ( over
two thousand miles of streams, within a hundred+ miles, if I remember
correctly what Craig told me )

There seem to be two major styles of visiting angler.

The most common I call 'name collectors' and they run from place to
place adding to a 'been there done that' list of names to drop at the
office or club meeting. I have had my periods of 'name collecting'
back when I was younger, so I do understand the temptation. But,
maybe because I'm now the opposite, these folks always seem the least
satisfied with their visit when I meet and chat with them.

Another approach is what I 'think' Jeff does, sample a variety within
a relatively small physical area. Believe me the variety is there
and most visitors seem best served by this approach. It becomes a
type of adopted home waters thing, much as one might alternate
specific day trips within one's own area, a nice blend of 'new' and
'old love'

Not recommended for anyone else, is my approach and the one I find in
my slowly growing circle of true troutbum friends. Returning each
year, for long periods, to places that have become so personally
special as to feel more like home ... than home. I know a couple,
both used to guide/drive shuttle/work in shops .. i.e diehard fly
fishers ... that travel each year from well down into Mexico up to
almost Alaska in BC, and then back again, fishing. But they hit the
same spots each year with little change. Of course they've had their
past days of 'name collecting' and know which names best suit
them.

I know several people that spend the entire season (or damn near) on
the Ranch. They could be anywhere, within reason, being retired and
living out of RVs, but choose to fish daily a water that ( in my
experience, polling those I run into ) greatly disappoints the vast
majority of the 'name collector' set. Only intimacy, and time, leads
to such 'true love.' That intimacy, and, obviously time, is beyond
the possibility of the two week trip, thus my "not recommended"

My point, if I have one, it that the 'name collecting,' one night
stand, approach leaves one with little more than names to remember.
However, really getting to know, even one place, is beyond the
possible for the vacationing angler. So, somewhere in between is the
zone of likely highest return.

IMHO, it takes a few days, bare minimum, to even start to get a 'feel'
for any water that is complex enough to have the potential of becoming
a true love with time.

Leaving one water that seems to know how to treat you just like you
want to be treated to visit another just because it's 'new' is
something we all do/ have done. But I think it's significant, that
it was back when we were younger, less mature, and less certain of
what we really wanted.

My suggestion is to pick a base and plan on experiencing a variety
near that base. Ask Jeff, I'm sure he will support me in my
statement that it is fully possible ( for a vacation period, you'd die
of exhaustion over longer time ;-) to sample new small streams daily
and still make it to the (can be in Jul/Aug ) awesome nightly caddis
affair on the Madison below Quake ... both

Larry L ( who wanders a lot and says little, but, .... with long
posts )

Jarmo Hurri wrote:
Roger Ok, it is not possible for me to be away from home 1:st week of
Roger July or 2:nd week of August. But since it is more than 6 months
Roger away in time I think I can be fairly flexible regarding all the
Roger weeks in between. Jarmo?

I'm pretty flexible - until 2nd week of August, I think - but at least
earlier the timetables of my friends were pretty much limited to the end
of July and beginning of August. I have not yet received a response from
them regarding these latest plans.

A few notes about other issues that have been discussed he
- For me the optimal accommodation would be a motorhome. It would
provide flexibility if conditions would require a change of location.
- I don't mind seeing other fishermen on the same river, but I would
willingly choose a less crowded river even if it meant smaller /
fewer fish. With this in mind, spending at least part of the time in
other location than Yellowstone sounds tempting. Maybe it could be
northern Montana / southeast BC?


i think you have a misunderstanding of the "crowds" as an issue. you
will have no problem finding uncrowded waters...as in no other
fishermen...if you simply hike a bit. i have been there 5 or 6 times
now, and have always been able to find uncrowded places. i've fished a
mile or more on some streams without encountering another fisherman.
there is simply so much fishable water in the area that, with a little
effort, you can find the serene and solitary in and near the park. that
entire area of the world, though not like the arctic you fellas have
shared in photos, is amazing and you'll not go wrong with any choice you
make.

if you visit the park area, you're more likely to have a number of folks
available to meet and show you about...so i'd suggest making it a part
of your plans. montana is a big state...and it's a long drive from the
park to glacier, missoula, or british columbia. i've not done it, so
others can tell you what to expect...but, i've driven about out there
enough to know there is a lot of "there" out there.

lots of folks rent motorhome vehicles out west, and you won't have too
much trouble doing it. i've met a number of americans along the madison
who were doing that...it looked like fun, but those are some big
expensive wheels.

again...fix your dates and lets begin discussing options about locations
and lodging.

jeff

Larry L wrote:
On Nov 4, 10:52 am, Jarmo Hurri wrote:


. Maybe it could be
northern Montana / southeast BC?



One thing I keep wanting to say but haven't yet
IS

the 'good fishing' zone within the area defined as Montana/Idaho/
Wyoming/Alberta

IS HUGE ...

seeing it all in one or two or three or five trips, , or trying
to, ... is, imho, a mistake

as Jeff has said, even within day trip distance of West Yellowstone
there is more water than a lifetime of vacations could cover ( over
two thousand miles of streams, within a hundred+ miles, if I remember
correctly what Craig told me )

There seem to be two major styles of visiting angler.

The most common I call 'name collectors' and they run from place to
place adding to a 'been there done that' list of names to drop at the
office or club meeting. I have had my periods of 'name collecting'
back when I was younger, so I do understand the temptation. But,
maybe because I'm now the opposite, these folks always seem the least
satisfied with their visit when I meet and chat with them.

Another approach is what I 'think' Jeff does, sample a variety within
a relatively small physical area. Believe me the variety is there
and most visitors seem best served by this approach. It becomes a
type of adopted home waters thing, much as one might alternate
specific day trips within one's own area, a nice blend of 'new' and
'old love'

Not recommended for anyone else, is my approach and the one I find in
my slowly growing circle of true troutbum friends. Returning each
year, for long periods, to places that have become so personally
special as to feel more like home ... than home. I know a couple,
both used to guide/drive shuttle/work in shops .. i.e diehard fly
fishers ... that travel each year from well down into Mexico up to
almost Alaska in BC, and then back again, fishing. But they hit the
same spots each year with little change. Of course they've had their
past days of 'name collecting' and know which names best suit
them.

I know several people that spend the entire season (or damn near) on
the Ranch. They could be anywhere, within reason, being retired and
living out of RVs, but choose to fish daily a water that ( in my
experience, polling those I run into ) greatly disappoints the vast
majority of the 'name collector' set. Only intimacy, and time, leads
to such 'true love.' That intimacy, and, obviously time, is beyond
the possibility of the two week trip, thus my "not recommended"

My point, if I have one, it that the 'name collecting,' one night
stand, approach leaves one with little more than names to remember.
However, really getting to know, even one place, is beyond the
possible for the vacationing angler. So, somewhere in between is the
zone of likely highest return.

IMHO, it takes a few days, bare minimum, to even start to get a 'feel'
for any water that is complex enough to have the potential of becoming
a true love with time.

Leaving one water that seems to know how to treat you just like you
want to be treated to visit another just because it's 'new' is
something we all do/ have done. But I think it's significant, that
it was back when we were younger, less mature, and less certain of
what we really wanted.

My suggestion is to pick a base and plan on experiencing a variety
near that base. Ask Jeff, I'm sure he will support me in my
statement that it is fully possible ( for a vacation period, you'd die
of exhaustion over longer time ;-) to sample new small streams daily
and still make it to the (can be in Jul/Aug ) awesome nightly caddis
affair on the Madison below Quake ... both

Larry L ( who wanders a lot and says little, but, .... with long
posts )

you're always spot on with me larry...at least so far anyway.

fishing is such a unique individual effort. other than the shared joy
and philosophy of chasing the great mystery, it is hard to know whether
one's own preference will ever match with others'. for a first visit, to
get a sense of that area and to establish a foundation for future trips,
the yellowstone area is my best suggestion. if they want canada or
alaska or even distant areas of montana, i think they need a month or
more and even that would be too hurried for me. hell...yellowstone done
right requires a month.

while i've no doubt it can disappoint some tastes and expectations, and
there is a lot to complain about for those sweating the small stuff, the
yellowstone area (from all sides...including nearby last chance idaho)
remains my favorite western fishing destination for a 7-14 day trip. i
learn something new each visit, but i also value the surroundings.

willi and rw like camping on remote wyoming streams ... like you, they
have the luxury of living in the nearby west and can make annual trysts
to a variety of locations. i don't like crowds, and i value the remote
spaces, shared or solitary...but, i've never been disappointed in my
visits to that part of this world. i missed going out this year... i
intend to be there next year if i'm able, and i hope to see harry mason,
warren, danl, you, and a few nordic folks as well.

jeff