TOM KIRKMAN, RODBUILDING.ORG BB, MY DECEMBER 1,2003 POST, ETHICS

(Bluestone) wrote in news:2ca942b0.0312071245.6e1d53a3
@posting.google.com:

Its not a matter of agreement, its the point of free expression.
Thank you for yours.



And where were you guaranteed free expression on somebody elses forum?

I am not a rodbuilder, and don't know any of the companies or people
involved. I do recognize that this guy Kirkman could have used the
opportunity to use your thread to re-post the problems he's had with this
guy in the past, and didn't.

Scott

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003, Bluestone wrote:

When i posted this information on rodbuilding.org, Kirkman removed my
post.
Many posts with various views followed: Kirkman removed them all, and
sent me the following email:

Where's Tony Germuga when you need him?

Mu

Mike Connor wrote:
[snipper]

Nevertheless, it is good to talk about it again at least. I will just have
to wait and see what transpires. Perhaps my enthusiasm will return. Maybe I
am just getting old faster than I thought.

Actually Mike, inasmuch as you are looking for a solution perhaps the
answer lies in the second and second last stanzas.


Behold the winding, dancing, sparkling stream,
ethereal, enchanting, as in some joyous youthful dream,
beheld, and then, the all consuming wish,
to carry home the stream´s elusive fish.

But dreams fade rapidly at last, like youth.
Advancing age, and weariness, reveal the truth,
all the battles, and the fish you caught,
mean nothing much, it was not fish you sought.

Peace, contentment, and a happy life,
free of troubles, sickness, and all other strife,
fishing may indeed these earthly woes transcend,
as angler makes his way around another river bend.

`Tis sad that one may not just simply fish one´s life away,
ignoring all the cares and problems, always bright and gay,
but life intrudes most rudely, and forces one´s attention,
sometimes overpowering, defying comprehension.

Dreams are scattered then, borne away on evil winds,
as humdrum life the once great hope and joy rescinds,
ambition dies, one sinks in mournful contemplation,
of how things were, of each and every revelation.

Knowledge gained, seems worthless on reflection,
one is enchained for hours and days by useless circumspection.
a rod, a box of flies, once source of magical enjoyment,
now sit ignored, unused, no point in their deployment.

"Hope springs eternal", or so ´tis often lightly said,
even when the wings of spirit, have feet of lead.
I will yet take my rod and flies to some bright stream again,
I know I will, all I do not know, is when?

TL
MC


You need someone to share the water with. That may even extend to
guidance but only informally. I find having someone rely on me
for their outing is very motivating.

Just a thought ...

Steve (who has known similar, albeit short, periods of quietude)

Stephen Welsh wrote:
...
You need someone to share the water with. That may even extend to
guidance but only informally. I find having someone rely on me
for their outing is very motivating.

Just a thought ...

I'm just the opposite. Whenever I've been disinterested in fishing
it's been because of (real or perceived) social obligations.

The cure has always been to disappear somewhere far, far into the
backcountry, just me and the hound dog, to reconnect with why I
go fishing in the first place. I'm not anti-social, well ... not
completely, but I fish alone most of the time.

--
Ken Fortenberry

"Stephen Welsh" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Mike Connor wrote:
[snipper]
Actually Mike, inasmuch as you are looking for a solution perhaps the
answer lies in the second and second last stanzas.

You need someone to share the water with. That may even extend to
guidance but only informally. I find having someone rely on me
for their outing is very motivating.

Just a thought ...

Steve (who has known similar, albeit short, periods of quietude)


Quietude is not my problem, it is more desuetude.

I had someone to "share the water". Now I have not.

In actual fact, I invariably prefer to fish alone anyway. Although I have
taken a great many people fishing over the years, not to mention various
instruction.

I am not looking for a solution, I don´t know where to look, I am hoping
that one will occur.

TL
MC

Mike:

Nice to see that you are back... and as poetic as ever. Sorry to detect a
bit of melancholy in this one. Hope that it passes quickly for you, and you
again find pleasure in things once held dear.

Jim Ray

--
email SPAM countermeasures require removal of allnails to reply
"Mike Connor" Mike-Connor wrote in message
s.com...

"Tim J." schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news2PAb.453726$HS4.3558261@attbi_s01...
SNIP
Seems as good a place as any to say "Welcome back, Mike." It's good to
see
you
posting again.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj


Thank you. Surprising how one misses this place, and how soon one feels
"at
home" again in it. Decidedly odd, and very mixed feelings involved. One
does
indeed regard many of the people here as old friends. Even though I have
never met most of them, and never will.

I am in rather a quandary as it happens. Perhaps an identity crisis? Who
am
I , what am I , why am I? I don´t really know. I have not been fishing
for
quite a while, and the few times I did go, I was not particularly
enthusiastic. I have not even tied any flies, or built any tackle for a
long time. All my stuff lies unused and ignored in various places about
the
house. Having spent nearly all my life passionately engaged in fishing,
or
at least some aspect of it, this is a most unfortunate turn of events.
Mainly because there are no alternatives. I don´t really know much about
anything else, certainly not in the same way, nor was I ever much
interested
in anything else. One can not turn the clock back, and I can not think of
any even remotely similar pastime which would be so absorbing anyway. It
would be most regrettable to lose interest altogether.

Nevertheless, it is good to talk about it again at least. I will just have
to wait and see what transpires. Perhaps my enthusiasm will return. Maybe
I
am just getting old faster than I thought.

Behold the winding, dancing, sparkling stream,
ethereal, enchanting, as in some joyous youthful dream,
beheld, and then, the all consuming wish,
to carry home the stream´s elusive fish.

But dreams fade rapidly at last, like youth.
Advancing age, and weariness, reveal the truth,
all the battles, and the fish you caught,
mean nothing much, it was not fish you sought.

Peace, contentment, and a happy life,
free of troubles, sickness, and all other strife,
fishing may indeed these earthly woes transcend,
as angler makes his way around another river bend.

`Tis sad that one may not just simply fish one´s life away,
ignoring all the cares and problems, always bright and gay,
but life intrudes most rudely, and forces one´s attention,
sometimes overpowering, defying comprehension.

Dreams are scattered then, borne away on evil winds,
as humdrum life the once great hope and joy rescinds,
ambition dies, one sinks in mournful contemplation,
of how things were, of each and every revelation.

Knowledge gained, seems worthless on reflection,
one is enchained for hours and days by useless circumspection.
a rod, a box of flies, once source of magical enjoyment,
now sit ignored, unused, no point in their deployment.

"Hope springs eternal", or so ´tis often lightly said,
even when the wings of spirit, have feet of lead.
I will yet take my rod and flies to some bright stream again,
I know I will, all I do not know, is when?

TL
MC

Mike Connor wrote:


Quietude is not my problem, it is more desuetude.

I had someone to "share the water". Now I have not.

In actual fact, I invariably prefer to fish alone anyway. Although I have
taken a great many people fishing over the years, not to mention various
instruction.

I am not looking for a solution, I don´t know where to look, I am hoping
that one will occur.

TL
MC


All in good time, I guess.


Steve (...after scrabbling for the dictionary ;-)

Ken Fortenberry wrote:


I'm just the opposite. Whenever I've been disinterested in fishing
it's been because of (real or perceived) social obligations.

The cure has always been to disappear somewhere far, far into the
backcountry, just me and the hound dog, to reconnect with why I
go fishing in the first place. I'm not anti-social, well ... not
completely, but I fish alone most of the time.


I used to always fish alone preferring my own company but in the last
couple of seasons I have generally preferred to share the experience.
I must admit to a solo session last week that was most pleasant mainly
because it was new water at my pace. Last evening it gave me great
pleasure to introduce a friend to that same water.

I definately know its time to get out when the SO asks "when are you
going next?" ... translated: "get the hell out of here and go enjoy
yourself".



Steve

"Stephen Welsh" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Steve (...after scrabbling for the dictionary ;-)



Careful there! You can hurt yourself doing that! Ask OP!

TL
MC

First, let me say, I've know Tom Kirkman longer than anybody on this board.
He and I went to high school together and his sister Lisa and I graduated
together. Tom was a year behind us. I've subscribed to his magazine and I've
purchased stuff from his old shop in High Point. He knows his stuff, he
shares the info he knows freely and openly, and he tries to do right by both
old experienced rod builders and newbies.

As to his removing your post, he states explicitly that "Only board
sponsors are permitted and encouraged to promote and advertise products on
the board." It is one of the first things you see when going to the
homepage. That said, you have no grounds for complaining that he removed
your post. If you don't like that, don't read the magazine, don't buy from
the sponsors, and confine your business to C&G Tackle Outlet.

-John


"Bluestone" wrote in message
om...
I found a good deal for rod support roller o-rings at C & G Tackle
Outlet, which are
selling for fifty cents ($.50) less than Renzetti's current price.
Renzetti is
'Kirkman's sponsor'; C & G Tackle Outlet can more than likely be
termed: 'less
than Kirkman's sponsor', as i have been summarily informed.

When i posted this information on rodbuilding.org, Kirkman removed my
post.
Many posts with various views followed: Kirkman removed them all, and
sent me the following email:


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Gary,

The owner of C&G Tackle has a history of attacking me and spreading
rumors
and falsehoods designed expressly to harm RodMaker Magazine and
RodBuilding.org. He is free to do that, but I will not provide him
with
the means to do so. I spent much time promoting his former companies,
Clemens Tackle and RodCrafters and was repaid by his distasteful
conduct.

I will not go into this any further. I am the owner of
Rodbuilding.org
and
have 100% authority on what can, and cannot, be posted there. My
record
and work on behalf of the rod building industry is beyond reproach. I
will
not allow any group or individual to destroy what I have done on
behalf
of
the rod building craft.

It is also important that I protect and promote those companies who
have
been willing to foot the bill to provide what most builders feel is a
truly
excellent site. It isn't free - somebody has to pay for it and when
non-sponsors take an unfair advantage in promoting their products on a
board that others are paying for, I will put my foot down.


Sincerely,

Tom Kirkman"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~

I find your email to be ambiguous hyperbole. I am not interested
in your personal life, nor the soap operas or the seeming vendettas
which may abound therein; however, i am interested
in giving all rodcrafters the best information i have.

In addition, i have no wish to post something you find so abhorrent
on your bulletin board.

As a newcomer to boards and newsgroups, (though i have
been building rods and teaching rodbuilding for over 20 yrs), i would
appreciate
all relevant responses to this situation. How far does one go to
censor a fifty cent
savings? One's sponsor would object?

Thank you in advance,

Sincerely,

bluestonerod