Need hook setting advice

Don Phillipson wrote:
When trout are non-hooked on dries, it might be worth
trying an English-style delayed strike i.e. a pause before
setting the hook. The theory is that, after waiting until
the fish turns his head downwards, the hook point pulls
into the corner of the jaw, where it catches better
than up at the bony front tip of the mouth.

The English style is to mutter "God save the Queen" before
setting the hook. Here in the colonies I use the American
style which is very similar except I change the word "save"
to a common expression meaning fornication.

This is similar to a tradition among marathon runners. The
original marathon, the distance from Marathon, Greece to
Athens, is 24.85 miles. At the 1908 Olympics in London they
added 2.2 miles so the ****in' brit royalty could watch the
finish from their viewing box. To this day English style
runners yell "God save the Queen" at mile marker 24. American
runners yell that other thing I was talking about. ;-)

--
Ken Fortenberry

On 08/09/2010 08:26 AM, Don Phillipson wrote:
wrote in message
...

These trout must have been caught several times before.
About every third drift, I would tangle with one. It
seemed like I would play with them for about two feet
and then they got loose. Over and over again too!
I checked my hook points constantly and they were
not broken off and were plenty sharp.

When trout are non-hooked on dries, it might be worth
trying an English-style delayed strike i.e. a pause before
setting the hook. The theory is that, after waiting until
the fish turns his head downwards, the hook point pulls
into the corner of the jaw, where it catches better
than up at the bony front tip of the mouth.


I was definitely not doing that. I was just letting them
have it the second they struck. This resulted in dragging
them a few feet before they took off for parts unknown.

My thought was that I only have a fraction of a second
before the trout tastes the thing and determines it to
be debris. This has always done me well in the past, but
since I can't seem to hook them now, I will definitely
give this a try.

Thank you!

-T

On Aug 8, 10:29*pm, Todd wrote:
Hi All,

I got to spend a whole hour and ten minutes on
the river last Thursday. *Had something unusual
happen to me that I would love the groups advice on.

These trout must have been caught several times before.
About every third drift, I would tangle with one. *It
seemed like I would play with them for about two feet
and then they got loose. *Over and over again too!
I checked my hook points constantly and they were
not broken off and were plenty sharp.

One trout I got so frustrated with, to set the hook,
I dragged him about four feet across the top
of a rapid. *And he still got away! *I could almost
hear him yelling "Yippee! Again! Again!" *(I may be
putting human emotions on him.)

I had the feeling I was playing tug-o-war with them
and had not actually hooked any of them.

They seemed to like all types of flies I tossed at them.
They would get use to one and I would put on a different
type. *They were all in the size 12 to 14 range.

What would the group suggest? *Smaller flies? *Larger
flies? *Flies with round hooks? *Shake my fish at
them and try not to grin too much?

Many thanks,
-T

p.s. I got to meet one 7" rainbow. *He nearly swallowed
my #14 Adams. *I think he was native as he was about two
inches smaller than what they plant and he was not so
danged ugly.

With barbless hooks I think a large portion of small trout get the
hook inside their mouths, but the hook point is tipped enuf so it
doesn't stick tissue. Just be happy you fooled em, and don't have to
touch (and hurt) fish that will grow into tommorrow's sport.

As to the "waiting" to strike advise, generally good but less
appropriate on surface and more so for salmon/steelhead. IMHO

Dave

On 08/09/2010 09:20 AM, D. LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-08-09 11:30:00 -0400, flebow said:


Don't think about catching them
They can read your thoughts and they are laughing at you
Think about drifting down a lazy river w them

......while practicing your Karman gait.

I do not know about reading my mind. They would be very
confused as to the concept that they were edible. And
as for laughing, perhaps. More likely they are probably
"mocking" me.

Actually, if you have seen underwater video of trout
Kármán gaiting, it looks pretty restful and peaceful.
They may actually be enjoying themselves. A twitch of
their pectoral fin and their food drifts right in their
mouth. Another twitch and back into his feeding lie.
No chasing involved. Kind of a trout's version of a
lazy boy chair.

:-)

-T

For those of you who missed my prior posts on the subject,
the "Kármán gait" is the explanation of the fluid dynamics
involved in a trout holding its position is moving/turbulent
water while expending little or no energy to do such.

Here is an excellent link to the "The Journal of Experimental
Biology" where the paper was published on the "Kármán gait".

http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/conten...act/206/6/1059

There is also lovely underwater video footage of it in Ozzie
Ozefovich's, "Underwater World of Trout - Feeding Lies".

Ozzie also has wonderful underwater footage of trout feeding
off the drift too. The "drift" is a description of trout food
caught in the current that drifts by a trout's nose while
he is Kármán gaiting in his feeding lie.

I would love it if Ozzie would make up a screen saver of
some of his Kármán gaiting footage. But, then again, I'd
probably never get any work done.

On 08/09/2010 11:53 AM, DaveS wrote:

With barbless hooks I think a large portion of small trout get the
hook inside their mouths, but the hook point is tipped enuf so it
doesn't stick tissue. Just be happy you fooled em, and don't have to
touch (and hurt) fish that will grow into tommorrow's sport.

As to the "waiting" to strike advise, generally good but less
appropriate on surface and more so for salmon/steelhead. IMHO

Dave

Thank you!

The fish here are generally in the 9 to 11" range. I switched
back to a barbed hook abut a month ago because my barbless
hooks were going clean through their lips and its was a mess
trying to remove them without further injuring the fish.
The barbed hooks came out very easily.

It was only last Thursday that I have had any trouble hooking
them.

And yes, I was happy. I had a total blast. Almost could not
force myself to come home.

-T

On 2010-08-09 15:02:27 -0400, Todd said:


For those of you who missed my prior posts on the subject,
the "Kármán gait" is the explanation of the fluid dynamics
involved in a trout holding its position is moving/turbulent
water while expending little or no energy to do such.

Here is an excellent link to the "The Journal of Experimental
Biology" where the paper was published on the "Kármán gait".

http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/conten...act/206/6/1059

There is also lovely underwater video footage of it in Ozzie
Ozefovich's, "Underwater World of Trout - Feeding Lies".

Ozzie also has wonderful underwater footage of trout feeding
off the drift too. The "drift" is a description of trout food
caught in the current that drifts by a trout's nose while
he is Kármán gaiting in his feeding lie.

I would love it if Ozzie would make up a screen saver of
some of his Kármán gaiting footage. But, then again, I'd
probably never get any work done.

eyes rolling

On 08/09/2010 01:43 PM, D. LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-08-09 15:02:27 -0400, Todd said:


For those of you who missed my prior posts on the subject,
the "Kármán gait" is the explanation of the fluid dynamics
involved in a trout holding its position is moving/turbulent
water while expending little or no energy to do such.

Here is an excellent link to the "The Journal of Experimental
Biology" where the paper was published on the "Kármán gait".

http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/conten...act/206/6/1059

There is also lovely underwater video footage of it in Ozzie
Ozefovich's, "Underwater World of Trout - Feeding Lies".

Ozzie also has wonderful underwater footage of trout feeding
off the drift too. The "drift" is a description of trout food
caught in the current that drifts by a trout's nose while
he is Kármán gaiting in his feeding lie.

I would love it if Ozzie would make up a screen saver of
some of his Kármán gaiting footage. But, then again, I'd
probably never get any work done.

eyes rolling



Hi Dave,

Is there some part of the The Journal of Experimental
Biology's paper that you disagree with? I would love
hear your criticism of it. The more about trout behavior
I learn, the better a fisherman I become.

Or, perhaps, you were just giving me a bad time. :-)

-T

On 2010-08-09 17:34:52 -0400, Todd said:

On 08/09/2010 01:43 PM, D. LaCourse wrote:
On 2010-08-09 15:02:27 -0400, Todd said:


For those of you who missed my prior posts on the subject,
the "Kármán gait" is the explanation of the fluid dynamics
involved in a trout holding its position is moving/turbulent
water while expending little or no energy to do such.

Here is an excellent link to the "The Journal of Experimental
Biology" where the paper was published on the "Kármán gait".

http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/conten...act/206/6/1059

There is also lovely underwater video footage of it in Ozzie
Ozefovich's, "Underwater World of Trout - Feeding Lies".

Ozzie also has wonderful underwater footage of trout feeding
off the drift too. The "drift" is a description of trout food
caught in the current that drifts by a trout's nose while
he is Kármán gaiting in his feeding lie.

I would love it if Ozzie would make up a screen saver of
some of his Kármán gaiting footage. But, then again, I'd
probably never get any work done.

eyes rolling



Hi Dave,

Is there some part of the The Journal of Experimental
Biology's paper that you disagree with? I would love
hear your criticism of it. The more about trout behavior
I learn, the better a fisherman I become.

Or, perhaps, you were just giving me a bad time. :-)

-T

This is not an experimental biology forum. And knowing about Karmen
gaiting and posting ad nauseum about it make you a better fisherman.
And it sure as hell hasn't improved my hitch ups.

I always give suspicious people a hard time. You come on board with an
anonymous name, which is bad enough, but you also have to hide your
isp. No one would do that unless they are being insincere. What ARE
you hiding, Todd? No one here will hurt you. Everyone uses their
given names here. We all know each other. We've fished together. But
you are a riddle wrapped in an inigma. And, no, that is NOT a
compliment.

If you truly fish the way you say you do, you shoud consider taking up
another sport/hobby. Golf/tennis come to mind.

Dave

On 08/09/2010 03:25 PM, D. LaCourse wrote:
This is not an experimental biology forum. And knowing about Karmen
gaiting and posting ad nauseum about it make you a better fisherman.
And it sure as hell hasn't improved my hitch ups.

Sharing the references to what has made me a better fisherman
with others is me being a generous, nice guy. So far
as I remember, I have only posted the Journal's link twice.
That is not "ad nauseum". This is sharing what I know with
others who do not know me and are kind enough to share with me
anyway -- up to and including their fish recipes.

By the way, I do not see you sharing your tips with me
but I do freely share mine with you.

I always give suspicious people a hard time. You come on board with an
anonymous name, which is bad enough, but you also have to hide your isp.
No one would do that unless they are being insincere. What ARE you
hiding, Todd? No one here will hurt you. Everyone uses their given names
here. We all know each other. We've fished together. But you are a
riddle wrapped in an inigma. And, no, that is NOT a compliment.

Dave,

I could not fish with anyone else if I even had the mind to.
I just do not have the time; I do not have the facilities to
host anyone; I do not have the financial ability to host anyone;
a few of you scare me. And, quite frankly, the fishing around
these parts sucks.

And, what I am hiding is my "identity". Why? Check out
what happens to kids when their identity gets out on My Space:

http://thedeadkidsofmyspace.com/.

You are taking a risk I can not take. And a foolish risk
at that. This forum is open to the entire Internet and
there are a lot of psychopaths out there.

And don't tell me about your guns or your dogs named Adolf.
Neither can counter the element of surprise. So, my
identity stays hidden. Yours should have too.

It is a blessing that others on this group fish with you.
If they identify themselves to you, it should be out-of-band,
so they do not put themselves at risk either.

riddle wrapped in an inigma
suspicious people

Oh brother.

HTH,
--T-o-d-d

Todd wrote:
I could not fish with anyone else if I even had the mind to.
I just do not have the time; I do not have the facilities to
host anyone; I do not have the financial ability to host anyone;
a few of you scare me. And, quite frankly, the fishing around
these parts sucks.

And, what I am hiding is my "identity". Why? Check out
what happens to kids when their identity gets out on My Space:

http://thedeadkidsofmyspace.com/.

You are taking a risk I can not take. And a foolish risk
at that. This forum is open to the entire Internet and
there are a lot of psychopaths out there.

And don't tell me about your guns or your dogs named Adolf.
Neither can counter the element of surprise. So, my
identity stays hidden. Yours should have too.

Your identity isn't as hidden as you'd like to think and
like it or not anonymity is not the default in this little
corner of cyberspace. Those who choose to remain anonymous
will have a hard time trying to find friends or fishing
partners here on roff. You cannot generalize from what you
think you know about Usenet forums and apply it to roff.

We're ... changed. LOL !!

--
Ken Fortenberry