Rod costs

Some of you may find this interesting;
http://www.sexyloops.com/sparton/graphiterods.shtml

TL
MC

Interesting article... however I get a bit cynical when a little research
reveals the author used to sell high profile brands with apparently a clear
conscience, and only started this accounting exercise when he lost his
agency... go figure.

I would agree some brands are overpriced. It's the same with running shoes,
Nike costs no more to make than generic brands sold in K-Mart, but one costs
a lot more to market and some folks want big profits. Everyone has the
freedom of choice to buy a cheapie or a "brand".

The rods appearing now out of Asian countries are extremely serviceable, I
have been impressed with Temple Forks for instance, but I still don't think
they are not in the league of the premium brand I favor. I would use them,
but they wouldn't be my first choice for my most common angling but would
happily get one for my once a year sojourn up north for sal****er fishing
for example.

I guess it comes down to what the individual wants. A Lada will get me to
the river, but if I could afford it I'd rather do it in a Mercedes. Plant
and manufacture being somewhat the same there are a lot of things unseen
that separates the two. I am sure you and the author are aware of that given
your experience in this field.
--
Clark Reid
http://www.dryflynz.com
Umpqua Designer Flytier


"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...
Some of you may find this interesting;
http://www.sexyloops.com/sparton/graphiterods.shtml

TL
MC

"Clark Reid" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Interesting article... however I get a bit cynical when a little research
reveals the author used to sell high profile brands with apparently a
clear
conscience, and only started this accounting exercise when he lost his
agency... go figure.
SNIP

Unless one knows exactly what one is doing, or has the relevant information
( for a while, some very cheap Cabela´s rods ( Three forks? etc) were being
praised a lot on ROFF, from people who obviously are quite happy with them),
then I would generally advise people to buy a good "name" rod. It depends on
what they want it for, and how much they want to pay. My own particular
preference is for some Sage rods. I have a few, and am very pleased with
them. They happen to be very expensive, but that´s just how it is. If you
want top class, then you have to pay top class. I got most of mine ( in fact
all except one),second hand as it happens, for much less than the current
market price, and after I had cast and fished with the same models.

That said, the market is now awash with various "cheapies", and some "not so
cheapies", the vast majority of which are sourced in places like Korea and
Taiwan. Some of these are very good indeed, and cheap, there are a lot of
"mid-stream" models, nothing special, but serviceable, and others again are
awful, and considerably overpriced. For most people, the "quality" of such
rods, either price related or intrinsic, is practically impossible to
determine.

Very few people have the experience or knowledge, or even the opportunity to
use a large variety of equipment, and as a consequence, they are also quite
unable to make any decisions based on such.

Mr.Parton is well known for his blunt honesty, and his often controversial
style. I doubt that the loss of any "agency" would bother him much. It is
quite clear that he is merely relating his knowledge and experience, ( as is
his wont), and certainly not trying to sell anything with this article.
Indeed, I have often heard Mr.Parton trying to dissuade people from buying
various things. Often to no avail, as people tend to believe what they wish
to believe, irrespective of the facts.

What you or I, or Mr.Parton, might personally choose as fishing tools, as a
result of our various knowledge and experience, or merely personal
preference, is largely irrelevant, as this is highly unlikely to be the same
choice that somebody on a limited budget, who wants to start fishing, or who
only goes fishing twice a year, will make.

Given the choice, I would also drive to the river in a Mercedes, but in the
absence of such a choice I would also be grateful for the Lada. As long as I
got to the river.

TL
MC

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...
Some of you may find this interesting;
http://www.sexyloops.com/sparton/graphiterods.shtml

TL
MC

I found it to be a thought provokin' article, but as he said, I don't know
squat about rod buildin' and don't care to for that matter. What bothered
me though, about the article, was the absence of any political slant and
that the "Far East" was mentioned in a derogatory manner for more so that
the USA, what gives?

Op --honestly, I thought the subject: Rod costs, and the hyperlink to
sexyloops was going to be a bit more risqué. Oh well, can't win 'em all.--

One of Mr. Parton's comments struck a cord with me; "which is why most of
what you think is American or European Made isn't at all." I have a name
brand rod (smaller name) that is known in the UK. It is clearly stamped
"hand made in the UK." I bought it in the factory seconds store of a Korean
rod manufacturer in Seoul.
--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

"Guyz-N-Flyz" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
nk.net...
SNIP
I found it to be a thought provokin' article, but as he said, I don't know
squat about rod buildin' and don't care to for that matter. What bothered
me though, about the article, was the absence of any political slant and
that the "Far East" was mentioned in a derogatory manner for more so that
the USA, what gives?

Op --honestly, I thought the subject: Rod costs, and the hyperlink to
sexyloops was going to be a bit more risqué. Oh well, can't win 'em
all.--



The "Far East", irrespective of any facts thereto pertaining, is
traditionally associated by many Europeans, with cheap crap. The USA is
still trying to catch up

TL
MC

"Frank Reid" moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
One of Mr. Parton's comments struck a cord with me; "which is why most of
what you think is American or European Made isn't at all." I have a name
brand rod (smaller name) that is known in the UK. It is clearly stamped
"hand made in the UK." I bought it in the factory seconds store of a
Korean
rod manufacturer in Seoul.
--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply



Yeah, I have a couple of rods and other stuff which was sent to me by a
Korean manufacturer, as "samples". I will refrain from publishing here what
is stated on the rods, the various packaging, and the logos! The rods are
very good, and excellently finished, with top quality fittings. At the
time, I was still considering bringing out a range of my own rods, and was
looking for more cost-effective manufacturing facilities. Eventually I
ditched the idea, as the logistics were too complex and expensive, and my
wallet was too light!

Many people would doubtless be surprised at the present extent of this
"outsourcing". There are not many true tackle manufacturers left in the
market at all, quite a large percentage merely label the finished rods ( and
all the other stuff), they buy in. This is ( intentionally of course)
misleading, but really does not say much about the quality or otherwise of
the products involved.

If you buy a rod from a reputable company, ( or anywhere else for that
matter!), and you are happy with it, then it really does not matter much
where it was actually made.

Globalisation is far more advanced than many people realise. It is a pure
business necessity, quite independent of political or other considerations.
It is also quite dangerous really, as few realise the complexity of the
interdepencies which have developed as a result.

TL
MC

Well it's taken us three years but we have found something we agree on,
virtually in the entirety.

I have no basis on which to judge Mr. Parton and it seems you know of him to
a much greater degree than I do. I was only basing my comments on his
comments from his website...

"LOOMIS , SAGE , OTHER AMERICANS
You may be interested to know that we , along with all the other smaller
Dealers got struck out by Sage a few seasons ago . We were very annoyed and
it did take some effort to even get a thanks for your efforts letter out of
them .

What more do you expect from folks whose golf team goes whacko on the 17th
in the Ryder Cup !

Loomis then welcomed us with open arms. And we did ok building on their
blanks.

But eventually we have decided after Loomis twice changed distributors in a
very short time to formally discontinue any involvement with any American
Blank or rod manufacturer .

There are other reasons - firstly that we have seen the steady development
by Dr Harrison of British Made Blanks of identical tip actioned styles to
those favored by Americans generally . Nowadays British rods are at least as
good if not practically better than American and they are far far cheaper !
And we can build them with proper handles and top grade rings suitable for
British conditions .

Secondly the growing realisation that Americans are pretty useless at all
forms of Stillwater Fly Fishing - when will they even place at World Cup
Level ? And when was the last time you met any normal American who could
cast as far as you could !

So you had better ask yourself why do you want to buy rods from a nation of
useless performers and do they know anything about stillwater rods at all
except about cosmetising , advertising and marketting ?"

For me these comments make it difficult to give credibility to Mr. Parton's
remarks. Mainly because he did lose agencies for US rods that he seemed to
like up until he lost them... also he uses The World Fly-Fishing Champs as a
benchmark of intercontinental abilities and given the minute number of
people who enter "competitive relaxation" competitions I think his slight on
US anglers to be ridiculous. I also find using distance casting as a basis
for judging fishing ability to be way off track also.


Clark Reid
http://www.dryflynz.com
Umpqua Designer Flytier

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

"Clark Reid" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Interesting article... however I get a bit cynical when a little
research
reveals the author used to sell high profile brands with apparently a
clear
conscience, and only started this accounting exercise when he lost his
agency... go figure.
SNIP

Unless one knows exactly what one is doing, or has the relevant
information
( for a while, some very cheap Cabela´s rods ( Three forks? etc) were
being
praised a lot on ROFF, from people who obviously are quite happy with
them),
then I would generally advise people to buy a good "name" rod. It depends
on
what they want it for, and how much they want to pay. My own particular
preference is for some Sage rods. I have a few, and am very pleased with
them. They happen to be very expensive, but that´s just how it is. If you
want top class, then you have to pay top class. I got most of mine ( in
fact
all except one),second hand as it happens, for much less than the current
market price, and after I had cast and fished with the same models.

That said, the market is now awash with various "cheapies", and some "not
so
cheapies", the vast majority of which are sourced in places like Korea and
Taiwan. Some of these are very good indeed, and cheap, there are a lot of
"mid-stream" models, nothing special, but serviceable, and others again
are
awful, and considerably overpriced. For most people, the "quality" of such
rods, either price related or intrinsic, is practically impossible to
determine.

Very few people have the experience or knowledge, or even the opportunity
to
use a large variety of equipment, and as a consequence, they are also
quite
unable to make any decisions based on such.

Mr.Parton is well known for his blunt honesty, and his often controversial
style. I doubt that the loss of any "agency" would bother him much. It
is
quite clear that he is merely relating his knowledge and experience, ( as
is
his wont), and certainly not trying to sell anything with this article.
Indeed, I have often heard Mr.Parton trying to dissuade people from buying
various things. Often to no avail, as people tend to believe what they
wish
to believe, irrespective of the facts.

What you or I, or Mr.Parton, might personally choose as fishing tools, as
a
result of our various knowledge and experience, or merely personal
preference, is largely irrelevant, as this is highly unlikely to be the
same
choice that somebody on a limited budget, who wants to start fishing, or
who
only goes fishing twice a year, will make.

Given the choice, I would also drive to the river in a Mercedes, but in
the
absence of such a choice I would also be grateful for the Lada. As long as
I
got to the river.

TL
MC

"Frank Reid" moc.deepselbac@diersicnarf wrote in message
...
One of Mr. Parton's comments struck a cord with me; "which is why most of
what you think is American or European Made isn't at all." I have a name
brand rod (smaller name) that is known in the UK. It is clearly stamped
"hand made in the UK." I bought it in the factory seconds store of a
Korean
rod manufacturer in Seoul.
--
Frank Reid
Reverse email to reply

I remember you telling me that story. The question I have is whether it was
actualy being shipped to and sold by the 'famous maker' or was intended for
the knockoff market (like the $10 'Rolex' watches you can buy in any street
corner in NYC).
--
Stan Gula
http://gula.org/roffswaps

"Mike Connor" wrote in message
...

...Globalisation is far more advanced than many people realise....It is
also quite dangerous really, as few realise the complexity of the
interdepencies which have developed as a result.

Agreed. However there are also some, at least potential, benefits. Economy
of scale comes readily to mind.

At any rate, the next few decades promise to be every bit as interesting as
the last five or so.....I believe I'll stick around for a while and see what
happens.

Wolfgang
who, considering the alternative, probably hasn't made all that tough or
profound a decision.