Fishing Scotland

"Lazarus Cooke" wrote in message
om...

What's more in a lot of parts of scotland fishing on a sunday is
illegal. The scots are a god-fearing bunch.



Sounds like what some of the religious fanatics here in the States want to
do.

Impose their self centered ideas on everyone's rights.

Damn sure would be nice if they went fishing more often instead of sitting
around complaining about the rest of us fishing!!

In article .net,
pmfpa wrote:

That is very true. In the US, aside from many questions about stream access
and trespassing, once you can get into the stream the state owns the fish
and can give you a license to take them.

Sounds like pinko liberal communism to me.

My understanding is that in the
UK, the land and the fish are private.

Yessir. The Uk's a land of free enterprise and opportunity for all.

At least the US appoints its head of state in the same way as the Brits
do, and appoints the vastly wealthy son of a previous head of state,
rather than the socialist notion of taking someone who's won the most
votes at an election.

Neither Charles nor George W may be very bright, but who cares?

(And incidentally Charles, who as well as being Prince of Wales is also
Duke of Cornwall, charges very reasonable rates for his Duchy of
Cornwall waters, which include wonderful fishing on Dartmoor -- Hound
of the Baskervilles territory. )

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

"Hooked" wrote in message
...
"Lazarus Cooke" wrote in message
om...

What's more in a lot of parts of scotland fishing on a sunday is
illegal. The scots are a god-fearing bunch.



Sounds like what some of the religious fanatics here in the States want to
do.

Impose their self centered ideas on everyone's rights.

Actually, it sounds more like the situation that, until recent decades, held
sway here in the U.S. for a couple of centuries. When I was a boy, growing
up in what was then a small city of fifty thousand or so back in the
fifties, Sunday, as a "day of rest", was a long standing tradition accepted
by virtually everyone. True, "rest" was already interpreted somewhat
differently than it had been in the heyday of religion's grip on secular
life, and a distinct aroma of the change to come was already in the air, but
Sunday was still markedly different from the Monday through Friday work
week, and even from Saturday, the other weekend day. Saturday was the day
to catch up on the personal business that languished through the week. In
rural areas it was the day to go into town to shop. On Sunday there was no
place to shop. In my home town there was typically one drug store open....a
relatively new concession to the fiction that it was necessary for the
maintenance of public health....but that was about it, and it was only
allowed to stay open for a few hours in the middle of the day. Many of the
activities we take for granted....for RIGHTS....were, if not officially
proscribed, then at least heavily frowned upon. And, of course, a lot of
things actually were banned. Prohibitions against fishing or hunting (among
other things) on Sunday do not, for the most part, stem from any actions on
the part of the new religious right, but rather from a hoary religious
mainstream. There are places in the U.S. where you may not legally hunt (or
fish?) on Sundays, but these are not radical new policies.

Personally, and as anyone who knows me will attest, I don't take well to
being dictated to. I guess I never quite outgrew the adolescent male
fascination with whatever is prohibited. But, at the same time, I'm
susceptible to a degree of the same nostalgia for an undoubtedly idealized
past that eventually strikes virtually all of us who live long enough. For
all the many very real faults of an era that, among other things, encouraged
rampant institutional racism, held women in vitrual chattel slavery, and
viewed expressions of individuality as suspect at best, it's still hard to
deny a certain bucolic charm to a past that enforced a periodic break from
an ever more frenetic lifestyle. It is interesting and instructive, I
think, that apart from the weather there is nothing in American life today
that generates more impotent complaints than the pace of modern life. The
irony of this impotence in the face of much vaunted and jealously treasured
personal freedom is, of course, sublime.

As for rights......well, most of the uninformed and specious twaddle spewed
forth about them (which is to say nearly everything) has been masticated and
spit out so many times by so many people of questionable moral and
intellectual hygiene that even looking at it is more than can reasoanbly be
asked of anyone lacking a fascination with excretory functions. Thomas
Jefferson was, by all accounts, an extremely bright individual. His use of
the damnable adjective "inalienable" can hardly be viewed as accidental and
thus, as two centuries of inane nattering clearly demonstrates, his
disingenuousness leaves him with a lot to answer for. Rights come.....and
they go.

Damn sure would be nice if they went fishing more often instead of sitting
around complaining about the rest of us fishing!!

Physician, heal thyself.

Wolfgang

"Wolfgang" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
SNIP
Wolfgang

An excellent analysis. Fits in a lot of places too. Most unfortunately.

TL
MC

On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 at 21:21:19 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly pmfpa wrote:
My understanding is that in the UK, the land and the fish are private.

Not quite... It's complicated..! And the position is not the same
throughout the UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland). And the
Republic of Ireland is completely different.

In England and Wales the fishing rights in most waters are privately
owned - usually as a result of a grant by the crown to some ******* who
trampled over the land and subdued the natives almost a thousand years
ago [1].

There are exceptions, such as some tidal waters, where there's a public
right to fish. But normally the presumption is that the owner of the
bank owns the fishing rights to the middle line. But fishing rights can
be (and often are) separated from ownership of land. In many areas the
fishing rights have been acquired by clubs for their members. Fishing
is usually available in most areas for a modest fee, but it's necessary
to make enquiries and get permission. It's not a good idea to fish
without seeking permission.

The fish themselves (in running water) belong to no-one. But it's an
offence to fish in private waters.

As noted below, everywhere you fish requires a permit.

"Permit" is the word usually used to describe the permission obtained
from the owner of the fishing rights. It's different from and
additional to the "rod licence" which everyone has to obtain from the
Environment Agency before fishing anywhere.

While this may seem quite a hassle, there are many instances where
you can buy a week long permit for a river of some size for not too
much money.

Yes. Seek and ye shall find. Google the area and ask in
uk.rec.fishing.game


The legal position in Scotland is explained at
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/?pageID=99


[1] The rights on my local river can be traced back to a grant by King
John in 1203 to one of his Norman cronies. :-(

--
Nogood Boyo

"Nogood Boyo" wrote in message
...

(snip)

In England and Wales the fishing rights in most waters are privately
owned - usually as a result of a grant by the crown to some ******* who
trampled over the land and subdued the natives almost a thousand years
ago [1].

(snip)

[1] The rights on my local river can be traced back to a grant by King
John in 1203 to one of his Norman cronies. :-(



Sounds to me like the British Empire needs to suffer defeat from another
Revolution. One by it's own citizens!!

"Wolfgang" wrote in message
...

Actually, it sounds more like the situation that, until recent decades,
held
sway here in the U.S. for a couple of centuries.


(snip)

Damn, you are difficult to read sometimes, but always worth the effort.

--riverman

(at least, when you are in Textbook mode)

"riverman" wrote in message
...

Damn, you are difficult to read sometimes,

Hell, if you think that's tough you should try WRITING this **** some time.


but always worth the effort.

Ah, the minority report! It wouldn't be much trouble to shoot a few holes
in it.......but we are content to leave that as a traditional exercise for
the incoming freshman class.

--riverman

(at least, when you are in Textbook mode)

We live to instruct. Pedagogy is merely the most easily recognizable of the
instruments in the didactical toolbox.

Wolfgang
who remains unashamed of his occasional flirtation with other more subtle
methods.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004, Lazarus Cooke wrote:

And incidentally Charles, who as well as being Prince of Wales is also
Duke of Cornwall, charges very reasonable rates for his Duchy of
Cornwall waters, which include wonderful fishing on Dartmoor

chuckle

Mu

A good many salmon rivers here in Eastern Canada have privately owned
sections that were accorded to families when Canada was first colonized.

--
http://www.bluezone.best.cd/
"Nogood Boyo" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 at 21:21:19 in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly pmfpa wrote:
My understanding is that in the UK, the land and the fish are private.

Not quite... It's complicated..! And the position is not the same
throughout the UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland). And the
Republic of Ireland is completely different.

In England and Wales the fishing rights in most waters are privately
owned - usually as a result of a grant by the crown to some ******* who
trampled over the land and subdued the natives almost a thousand years
ago [1].

There are exceptions, such as some tidal waters, where there's a public
right to fish. But normally the presumption is that the owner of the
bank owns the fishing rights to the middle line. But fishing rights can
be (and often are) separated from ownership of land. In many areas the
fishing rights have been acquired by clubs for their members. Fishing
is usually available in most areas for a modest fee, but it's necessary
to make enquiries and get permission. It's not a good idea to fish
without seeking permission.

The fish themselves (in running water) belong to no-one. But it's an
offence to fish in private waters.

As noted below, everywhere you fish requires a permit.

"Permit" is the word usually used to describe the permission obtained
from the owner of the fishing rights. It's different from and
additional to the "rod licence" which everyone has to obtain from the
Environment Agency before fishing anywhere.

While this may seem quite a hassle, there are many instances where
you can buy a week long permit for a river of some size for not too
much money.

Yes. Seek and ye shall find. Google the area and ask in
uk.rec.fishing.game


The legal position in Scotland is explained at
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/?pageID=99


[1] The rights on my local river can be traced back to a grant by King
John in 1203 to one of his Norman cronies. :-(

--
Nogood Boyo