Virus, ROFF Gehrke etc.

thanks in advance, I would be most gratefull.

JG


No, it can not be from me, as I do not store any e-mail addresses on my
machine, and my machine is in any case very heavily screened. It is likely
that somebody has "mined" this address from ROFF or some other board, and it
is now being used to send forged e-mails containing the virus. I have been
receiving up to twenty of these per day. I simply delete them on the server,
and do not even download them. This saves time money and bother. Do a
serach on "Mail-washer", and install this. It will save you the same. You
should also have an up-to-date anti-virus program installed. I also use Zone
Alarm Pro, Spybot Search and Destroy, Ad-Aware, and a couple of other
things. If you do much on Usenet, or the Internet generally, you will need
these things.

With regard to your comments on the postings etc. you may be right, but this
will not necessarily do you any good at all. There are many people who
simply continue to believe whatever they want to believe, irrespective of
the facts, or the "truth". Indeed, some believe even quite obviously false
things so fervently, that these are to all intents and purposes the "truth"
for them. Then there are those who distort, or hide or otherwise pervert the
truth, for whatever reasons.

Basically, you can only convince somebody of something, if he is open to
being convinced. Should this not be the case, then the "truth", or various
"proofs" are really immaterial, as that person may well ignore or refute or
distort as they see fit, in order to defend their own opinion, or position.

Also, it may be difficult to see the truth at all, even for oneself. One may
be convinced that something is so, but others may be equally convinced that
it is not so. This merely leads to absolutely pointless argument, fruitful
discussion requires an open mind. There is also often a problem with
interpretation. Something may well be obvious and clear to you, but seem
most obscure to somebody else. This may be a result of your inability to
communicate effectively, or a problem with comprehension. Writing good
English does not automatically guarantee that you will be understood. Some
people manage to misinterpret or embroider, no matter what you do.

Unfortunately, I am not omniscient, and even were it so, the fact that I
know something to be true, does not automatically guarantee that somebody
else will accept it. On occasion, I am also wrong, or at least inaccurate
about something. Generally I avoid voicing opinions when I am not sure about
something. This very rarely happens with fishing discussions anyway, as I am
simply too well informed on this subject. It has been a lifelong obsession,
and still is to a considerable extent, although I have not fished much at
all recently, I still read a great deal about it, cast, tie flies, engage
in various discussions etc etc.

It is impossible to convince a person that his opinion or position is wrong
by the use of logic, or truth, when his position is not based on such. They
will continue to believe whatever they want, irrespective of any proof to
the contrary. This is always the case when such a position is based on
completely unfounded beliefs or assumptions. This is often the case in
religious and political arguments, and these invariably end up going nowhere
at all. It may even be that somebody knows that what you are saying is the
truth, but refuses to acknowledge it. There is nothing at all you can do
about it. You can learn a very great deal about people by following such
threads, but it is rarely much use to engage in them yourself.

Some angling discussions are similar, as many aspects of angling are just as
subjective as religious convictions. As soon as an informational thread
dteriorates into a slanging match, there is nothing more to be gained from
it anyway. The guy you are referring to is known by several names, the main
one being "Muskie". If it costs you much money to download the groups, then
just block such senders. These people are simply stupid, and there is
nothing one can do about them. They feel obliged to foist whatever their
particular hobbyhorse is, on others, regardless of what others may think,
only very rarely have anything original or thoughtful to say, and mostly
don´t engage in discussion anyway.

Some of the "insult" threads are due to long standing members who "know"
each other fairly well, and have had a run-in with each other at some time
or other, being automatically hostile to each other. Also, after watching
ROFF for a while, one gets to know how people post, and whether what they
post is generally worthwhile bothering with. This colours the reactions of
long time ROFFians, but is not easily comprehensible to "newbies". Much of
this repeats itself continuously, like a program loop. After some time, one
can easily predict the reactions of some posters, and in many cases could
write their replies for them, almost word for word!

There is a long standing core group on ROFF, and this group tends to see
ROFF as their personal property, much like a private club. Some do not
suffer encroachment on their status kindly, and still others will suffer no
mistakes or nonsense from newbies and the like. It is rather a complex
group. This is also the reason for much of the off-topic posting. These
posters have been here a long time, and have heard most questions, and the
possible replies to them before. Basically they are probably fed up with a
lot of it, and so they post on, and discuss a whole range of other topics.
If you can not accept or ignore this, then ROFF is not for you anyway. Try a
couple fo the fishing boards instead. You will get the same information,
but without the social banter, or flame-wars. Of course you will also miss
quite a few things as well. ROFF is, at least as far as Usenet groups go,
"the only show in town". If you don´t like it, then stay away from it,
because you can not change it, and you will only come to grief trying.
Whining and moaning, although quite common, is quite useless.

Should you prove somebody wrong in public, especially among their peers,
this is unlikely to do you any good either, as in many cases you will simply
make an enemy by so doing, and for no good reason. Often, one must simply be
content at knowing the truth, irrespective of what others say or do.

With regard to Mr.Gerhrke, he was a very special, and quite unusual case. He
lied, cheated, misrepresented, blustered, and was generally most obnoxious.
His spamming was a real pain as well. I considered it my duty to refute his
nonsense at every possible opportunity, not least because much of what he
said would have cost people time and money. He wanted to be liked and
accepted I think, and get a "name" in flyfishing, and went to considerable
lengths to achieve this, but he was just too stupid and ignorant to realise
what he was doing, and of course achieved exactly the opposite. Not long ago
somebody told me his website was still operating. Presumably his children
have continued the business. A google search on "Gehrke" or "Gink" should
turn it up.

He upset a great many people in various ways, and some went to considerable
lengths to try and expose him. None of this bothered him much, he merely
continued his nonsense.

There were a few who supported him, for various reasons, but nobody with any
sense did. In all my years I have never experienced such stubborn stupidity
in the face of such massive odds. I know of nobody, on ROFF or anywhere
else,who would be stupid enough to continue under such circumstances.
Mr.Gehrke was stupid in a very special way. He is now dead and gone, and
there is no longer any point in discussing the matter. He can no longer
affect anybody much.

Nevertheless, the last big argument I had on ROFF was the direct result of a
comment I made shortly after his death. Quite a few people were praising
him, which I thought was extremely hypocritical and insincere, and I posted
my opinion on the matter, saying "Gehrke was an asshole", or words to that
effect. This started a landslide! On reflection, perhaps it was a mistake,
and I should not have bothered, it did nobody any good, but I hate that sort
of hypocrisy.

With regard to the "American" idea. You do have a point, but I rather think
it applies less to ROFF than to many other circumstances. Those I have met
from ROFF were very nice sincere people, who kept their word, and I have had
similar experiences with other Americans. I don´t like these sort of
generalisations anyway, they are rarely tenable. It may well be that
those in the entertainment business seem very insincere and shallow, but
this likely has more to do with the business itself, than the nationality of
the person involved.

Indeed, as far as the people on ROFF are concerned, I think the medium
itself is probably the main problem in most cases. It has been said many
times before, but it is nevertheless worth bearing in mind, face to face,
most of these people would simply not behave in such a manner, and one would
doubtless gain a completely different impression. Some of them do suffer
rather badly from "flag-waving syndrome", to the point of extreme
chauvinism, but they are not alone in this. As far as topics go, it is
highly probable that such topics would never arise in a face to face
situation anyway, and even if they did, they would not be discussed so
vehemently.

You can find the ROFF faqs and other stuff here;
http://www.roff.org/faq1.htm

http://www.roff.org/

http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/


But thwe FAQs are not much use, as they are not maintained. Most people seem
to adhere to various guidelines which they set for themselves, but there are
no real rules or regulations. Basically one must rely on common sense and
self control. The group is completely unmoderated. If you overstep the
bounds of your "Terms of use" contract with your ISP, and somebody
complains, then you may lose your provider. This is not the problem it once
was, as there are now plenty of providers available, but it is a
considerable nuisance, and costs money. Best to avoid any conflict if you
can. One "trick" which I use a lot, when I see a post which I feel obliged
to reply to, is to reply, but then put it in the "out" box, and read it
again later. In most cases I simply delete the posts then. One has replied,
and cleared and refined one´s own thoughts on the matter, but nobody is any
the wiser, and no conflict can arise as a result.

As you say, I was once a very prolific poster indeed. At the time I was
rather naive as well, at least as far as Usenet was concerned. I imagined
that people would enjoy, or be grateful for my stuff, amd quite a lot were,
for a long time. This changed when Gehrke started his nonsense, and has
never been the same since. Since that time, and in the light of various
other events, I no longer have any wish to post much. I look in regularly,
and still read practically all the posts, but I just don´t bother posting
much any more. It is not worth the effort.

I only attended one ROFF clave, one which I organised myself in Denmark. I
thoroughly enjoyed it, and I enjoyed meeting the people as well, although
the clave was not a resounding success fishwise, against all probability we
were somewhat unlucky in this regard, I think everybody enjoyed it
nevertheless. Most unfortunately, my wife was very ill indeed at the time,
and had the clave not been planned and organised some time beforehand, I
would have cancelled it. Had this not been the case, I would doubtless have
enjoyed it even more. I always enjoy meeting fellow anglers, wherever this
may be, and it is even more interesting under such circumstances. One gets
to put faces on names, and one has at last the opportunity to talk face to
face.

Nowadays, I rarely post much at all. There are quite a number of reasons for
this. Owing to the various events with Gehrke, and a couple of other
personal run-ins of a relatively minor nature, I sacrificed quite a lot of
credibility, and gained somewhat of a negative reputation. It is impossible
to do anything about this. Also, when mud-slinging occurs, some of the mud
sticks, irrespective of what one does, or whether one is right or wrong.

Even as a relative beginner, I am sure you would be more than welcome at the
Lappland clave. Just send Roger Ohlund an e-mail, and ask. You should not
let yourself be influenced by events on ROFF which do not concern you.
Mr.LaCourse is probably a very nice man really, indeed we were quite
amicably disposed to each other for a considerable time, although I have
never met him. He just ****ed me off, and I replied in kind. I bear no
grudges, but I have no wish to meet somebody who insults me. As neither he
nor I will be at the clave, (and even if we were I severely doubt that this
would cause any unpleasantness), you have no cause to worry about it.

Were I new to ROFF, but knowing what I know now, I would be extremely wary
of giving any personal information at all. Of course you might do so at a
clave, or in person somewhere, but I would suggest you avoid doing so on
ROFF. At some time or other, somebody will use it against you. It is more or
less impossible to avoid a personal run-in at some point. Often the result
of misunderstanding and similar. However this may be, if people know
virtually nothing about you, there is nothing much they can say or do to
injure you. Being called an asshole, or various other similar generic
insults is not much of a problem, one may simply laugh it off or ignore it,
but with personal knowledge, some can be very inventive and injurious. I
would suggest that you "lurk" for quite a while before posting at all, and
then confine yourself to asking fishing questions anyway. There are quite a
few very knowledgeable people on ROFF, and if you ignore the dross and the
rest of the irrelevant stuff, you can glean a great deal of useful
information. Developing a thick skin will not hurt either!

You are quite right about the other boards. However, one is not immune there
either. Some people simply do not like it when somebody else apparently
knows a lot about something. My knowledge and expertise in these fields has
often resulted in my being perceived as pompous and arrogant. But never when
I have met people in person, only on such boards, and ROFF of course!
Practically the only way to avoid this and similar problems, is not to
engage in such activities in the first place. Some people get completely
****ed off just because one writes good English! If you do engage in such
things, then a thick skin is essential anyway.

Since my wife died, in May of last year, I have not given any lessons, and I
have indeed resigned from most of the clubs I belonged to. You are correct,
I used to give free private lessons, apart from the club events, and as time
allowed, and Gerhard was indeed one of my pupils for a couple of years. I
don´t do this any more at all. I could give you a host of reasons for this,
but to be honest, I simply can not be bothered with it.

Much the same applies to fishing. I just can not be bothered going. I was
rather looking forward to one or two events this year, the clave in Denmark,
a big meet in England, a couple of flydressing demos I was asked to do, and
of course the Lappland clave, not least in the hope that I might regenerate
some enthusiasm, but I am not really all that disappointed at not going to
either Lappland or England, and may indeed cancel my attendance at the
Denmark clave. It is just too much bother and unecessary expense.

I will almost certainly do a few trips, but on my own. I am in no mood for
company, would probably not be very good company myself, and I prefer to be
alone most of the time anyway.

My only reason for coming here in the first place, was my wife, and now that
she has gone, I no longer have any good reason to stay. Unfortunately,
things are not quite as simple as they often appear. I have been here a long
time now. I own a house, in which we invested a great deal of work, time and
money, with all that this entails, and it is not easy to part with such
things, quite apart from the inevitable financial losses involved.
Nevertheless, I certainly don´t want to die here, and I have no more
enthusiasm for living here. The questions are, where to go? What to do?
And, how to go about it? It is rather a dilemma.

For most of my adult life I have been an extremely lucky man. I met and
married the love of my life, and I was hers as well. Life has been
relatively kind to me, I was able to pursue my interests, and live pretty
well at the same time. Of course, neither of us expected such a thing to
happen, cancer, like many other things, is something that happens to other
people. It is a major shock when it happens to you. That it eventually
resulted in the early death of my wife has caused me to review quite a lot,
and has fundamentally changed my attitude to many things. This reply is
already very long, and I wont go into these things here.

You are most welcome to visit, whenever you find it convenient. An e-mail or
a phone call suffices, I am practically always at home.We can tie some
flies, do a bit of casting, have a talk and a drink, but I wont take you
fishing, I wont visit anywhere else, and I wont make any long or even short
term plans for giving you lessons, simply because I don´t want to. If I can
be of assistance per e-mail etc, then please feel free.

I can send you the dates and times of quite a few club events, and there are
some good instructors there. At a couple of places it is free, and at others
quite cheap. I would advise you to avoid the commercial offers, until you
have at least learned a few more basics. These tend to be expensive, and not
many are all that good. If you get to the English meet, then I can give you
a couple of names of people who will be able to help you a lot with casting
etc. If you wish to fish mainly salt, then you will have to cast fairly
well.

Thanks for your nice mail, and your good wishes. Although I neither need nor
want support, on ROFF or anywhere else, I do appreciate it, and I hope you
are not too disappointed at my rather negative reply on this or on the
lessons.

Best wishes, regards, and tight lines!

Mike

"Mike Connor" wrote in
:

Some of the "insult" threads are due to long standing members who
"know" each other fairly well, and have had a run-in with each other
at some time or other, being automatically hostile to each other.
Also, after watching ROFF for a while, one gets to know how people
post, and whether what they post is generally worthwhile bothering
with. This colours the reactions of long time ROFFians, but is not
easily comprehensible to "newbies". Much of this repeats itself
continuously, like a program loop. After some time, one can easily
predict the reactions of some posters, and in many cases could write
their replies for them, almost word for word!

Hey, I did that once!

Scott