WARNING!! Avoid TIE-FAST and ADG!!

Around November of 2003 Ron Lewis (owner of Sierra Stream and Mountain,
AKA TIE-FAST, who makes knot tiers and other tools) said that he had
waders that a customer ordered but never picked up. I tried them on.
The salesman, Lincoln Gray did have concerns about the waders being
tight in the stomach. AFTER the salesman voiced his concerns, I asked
the owner, Ron Lewis, if I should get special ordered waders. He said
the extra cost was a concern and that he recommended that I get the
Medium Kings that the customer did not pick up. THAT WAS RON LEWIS, THE
OWNER¹S RECOMMENDATION, I DID NOT INSIST ON GETTING THE MEDIUM KINGS!!.
These were adg waders that retail for $160.

In March of 2004, I talked to David Ahn, owner of ADG (the manufacturer
of the waders). I told them that the waders were leaking, and told him
my height, weight, and chest measurement.He said that it sounded like
the medium kings I got were too small, and that I needed custom fit
waders. He agreed sell those to me for $40. They said to get my
measurement following the directions on their website, and return the
waders to Ron Lewis, owner. David Ahn said he was going to call
immediately calling Ron Lewis. I later called David Ahn back, and he
told me that Ron had said that I insisted on getting the waders even tho
he suggested I not get them. He said that I would have to talk to Ron.
It was a blatant lie that I insisted on getting the waders, I
specifically asked Ron if I should get specially sized waders and he
said I should get the Medium kings (that he had because a customer
specially ordered but never picked up) because custom fitted waders were
much more expensive. Plus the leaks had little to do with the waders
being tight in the stomach, the leaks were all bellow the knee.


I then went to Sierra Stream and mountain (AKA tie-fast), and Lincoln
Grey told me that David Ahn of ADG had said under no circumstance would
ADG honor my warranty, and said that if I wanted the custom fit waders
that David Ahn had agreed to sell me for $40 I would have to pay $270).
He said they would try to see what they could do about the leaks. I
went home and got my waders and gave them to Lincoln. The next day Ron
lewis yelled at me and said I had abused the waders, since they had
holes in the bottom of the neoprene feet. He said that I must have been
walking around with my boots off, which is untrue.

Another fly fishing store in Chico is Fish First. They are a well
respected store in northern california. I told my story to the
manager, Will Turek, and showed him the waders. He said that I got a
³bum deal². He said that the holes were not caused by abuse, but
probably by either how I distribute my weight or gravel that naturally
gets into the boots. He said he had never heard of ADG, but if it had
been a manufacturer that he dealt with he would call them and see what
he could do. He suggested I call the better business bureau.

I have not gotten a response from ADG, and they are very difficult to
get a hold of by phone. They also never reply to emails. I have made a
complaint to the BBB about ADG and TIE-FAST (aka Sierra Stream and
Mountain, in Chico ca).

Steve Sullivan wrote in
:

I then went to Sierra Stream and mountain (AKA tie-fast), and Lincoln
Grey told me that David Ahn of ADG had said under no circumstance
would ADG honor my warranty, and said that if I wanted the custom fit
waders that David Ahn had agreed to sell me for $40 I would have to
pay $270). He said they would try to see what they could do about the
leaks. I went home and got my waders and gave them to Lincoln. The
next day Ron lewis yelled at me and said I had abused the waders,
since they had holes in the bottom of the neoprene feet. He said that
I must have been walking around with my boots off, which is untrue.

Another fly fishing store in Chico is Fish First. They are a well
respected store in northern california. I told my story to the
manager, Will Turek, and showed him the waders. He said that I got a
"bum deal". He said that the holes were not caused by abuse, but
probably by either how I distribute my weight or gravel that naturally
gets into the boots. He said he had never heard of ADG, but if it
had been a manufacturer that he dealt with he would call them and see
what he could do. He suggested I call the better business bureau.


I'm really confused about how trying to trade in a pair of waders that
don't fit for custom-made waders is a warantee issue. Your problem
isn't with ADG.

Had you called ADG and told them that your feet wore out, instead of
complaining about getting a different custom size, you would have been
sent a pair of spanking new waders. You could have sold these, and used
the cash to get the custom waders you wanted.

You said in your original post that you got the waders in trade for some
work you did for the shop owner. Maybe the work was worth a pair of
waders he was stuck with, and not a custom made pair. Maybe you should
have gotten some other merchandise he had laying around, instead of
waders you didn't think fit.

Last but not least, if I were hoping to sell you your next pair of
waders, I would tell you what you want to hear, too.

Scott

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...

....Last but not least, if I were hoping to sell you your next pair of
waders, I would tell you what you want to hear, too.

Which is exactly why some of us have consciously chosen never to go into any
sort of retail business.

Wolfgang
oh? no? they don't fit that way? well, maybe if you tried jamming them up
yo.....um.....ahem....

In article ,
Scott Seidman wrote:

Steve Sullivan wrote in
:

I then went to Sierra Stream and mountain (AKA tie-fast), and Lincoln
Grey told me that David Ahn of ADG had said under no circumstance
would ADG honor my warranty, and said that if I wanted the custom fit
waders that David Ahn had agreed to sell me for $40 I would have to
pay $270). He said they would try to see what they could do about the
leaks. I went home and got my waders and gave them to Lincoln. The
next day Ron lewis yelled at me and said I had abused the waders,
since they had holes in the bottom of the neoprene feet. He said that
I must have been walking around with my boots off, which is untrue.

Another fly fishing store in Chico is Fish First. They are a well
respected store in northern california. I told my story to the
manager, Will Turek, and showed him the waders. He said that I got a
"bum deal". He said that the holes were not caused by abuse, but
probably by either how I distribute my weight or gravel that naturally
gets into the boots. He said he had never heard of ADG, but if it
had been a manufacturer that he dealt with he would call them and see
what he could do. He suggested I call the better business bureau.


I'm really confused about how trying to trade in a pair of waders that
don't fit for custom-made waders is a warantee issue. Your problem
isn't with ADG.

I did not call them up trying to trade. I told them that the waders had
leaks. I also asked them about the size difference between medium kings
and large kings. These waders have a 5 year warranty, I and I started
getting leaks after less than 5 months.



Had you called ADG and told them that your feet wore out, instead of
complaining about getting a different custom size, you would have been
sent a pair of spanking new waders. You could have sold these, and used
the cash to get the custom waders you wanted.

You are incorrect about the circumstances



You said in your original post that you got the waders in trade for some
work you did for the shop owner. Maybe the work was worth a pair of
waders he was stuck with, and not a custom made pair.

And no where did I say it was. I called adg, told them my waders had
leaks in them. I asked them the size difference between MK and LK, and
gave them my dimensions. They said a custom sized wader would be more
appropriate. They said to return the waders to Ron and that their would
be a $40 charge for the price difference.

Maybe you should
have gotten some other merchandise he had laying around, instead of
waders you didn't think fit.

The problem with the leaks was all bellow the waist.
Every comment you have made is false, are you a troll?

In article ,
Scott Seidman wrote:

I'm really confused about how trying to trade in a pair of waders that
don't fit for custom-made waders is a warantee issue. Your problem
isn't with ADG.

Had you called ADG and told them that your feet wore out, instead of
complaining about getting a different custom size, you would have been
sent a pair of spanking new waders. You could have sold these, and used
the cash to get the custom waders you wanted.

You obviously are a troll. I looked back at my original message to make
sure I was clear and see I typed this:

"In March of 2004, I talked to David Ahn, owner of ADG (the manufacturer
of the waders). I told them that the waders were leaking, and told him
my height, weight, and chest measurement.He said that it sounded like
the medium kings I got were too small, and that I needed custom fit
waders. He agreed sell those to me for $40."

I believe this fairly clearly shows everything you say is false.

Do you work for adg or tie fast?

"Steve Sullivan" wrote...
Scott Seidman wrote:

I'm really confused about how trying to trade in a pair of waders that
don't fit for custom-made waders is a warantee issue. Your problem
isn't with ADG.

Had you called ADG and told them that your feet wore out, instead of
complaining about getting a different custom size, you would have been
sent a pair of spanking new waders. You could have sold these, and used
the cash to get the custom waders you wanted.

You obviously are a troll. I looked back at my original message to make
sure I was clear and see I typed this:

"In March of 2004, I talked to David Ahn, owner of ADG (the manufacturer
of the waders). I told them that the waders were leaking, and told him
my height, weight, and chest measurement.He said that it sounded like
the medium kings I got were too small, and that I needed custom fit
waders. He agreed sell those to me for $40."

I believe this fairly clearly shows everything you say is false.

Do you work for adg or tie fast?

Steve - take a deep breath and step AWAY from the keyboard.

You also said in your post, "I have made a complaint to the BBB about ADG and
TIE-FAST (aka Sierra Stream and Mountain, in Chico ca)." As Scott said, your
beef isn't with ADG, but with the store that allegedly forced you to buy the
incorrect size. My recommendation would be to forget about it, and never give
any of your money to that shop again. Make sure your next set of waders are nice
and loose, do some bending in them when you try them on, and go with a brand
like Simms or Orvis, although if you buy them too small you'll end up with the
same problem.

BTW, I wouldn't have thought about Scott's
"trade-them-for-the-wrong-size-and-sell-them" gambit, but I'm not a devious
asshole troll.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Steve Sullivan writes to Scott S
You obviously are a troll.

And you, obviously, are WAY too agitated over a private beef with a store owner
to see that Scott is attempting to help you in any similar situation in the
future.

Do you work for adg or tie fast?

Scott doesn't work....he's in academeseg.

Now, Steve, if I recall, this is the second go-round from you on this entire
wader purchase fiasco. It seems that few, if any, of the folks you have ranted
to on here( and on the completely inappropriate ROFFT) have even claimed to
have HEARD of either TIE-FAST or ADG. My heart goes out that you got ripped off
by a couple of weasels, but if it were my $160, I might have investigated the
brand before parting with the cash. I seems like you bought a suspect product,
it failed, and you don't like the people who sold it. **** happens, buy a pair
of SIMM's or a cheap Cabelas pair to tide you over and learn from the
experience.
Tom

In article %mmcc.80107$w54.446499@attbi_s01,
"Tim J." wrote:

Steve - take a deep breath and step AWAY from the keyboard.

You also said in your post, "I have made a complaint to the BBB about ADG and
TIE-FAST (aka Sierra Stream and Mountain, in Chico ca)." As Scott said, your
beef isn't with ADG, but with the store that allegedly forced you to buy the
incorrect size.

Where did I alleged that the stored forced me to buy the incorrect size?
The problem is with the neoprene booties. The problem has nothing to do
with the waders being tight in the stomach. ADG rescinded my warranty
because TIE-FAST claimed I insisted on buying the waders.
A) tie-fast lied
B) the holes in the feet have nothing to do with the waders being tight
in the stomach.

This is entirely a warranty issue of waders less than 6 months old with
a 5 year warranty that has been voided by the manufacturer. If ADG had
said "ok, send in your waders and we will give you a new pair of the
same sized waders" I would not be unhappy. The fact that ADG rescinded
the warranty makes them a part of this. I sent them a email saying that
A) TIE-FAST did not tell the truth about my "insisting" on getting the
waders
B) the problems with the waders were all bellow the waist
C) I also gave them the name of the person at Fish First who looked at
the waders, and confirmed that it is a manufacturer issue.



My recommendation would be to forget about it, and never give
any of your money to that shop again. Make sure your next set of waders are
nice
and loose, do some bending in them when you try them on, and go with a brand
like Simms or Orvis, although if you buy them too small you'll end up with
the
same problem.

BTW, I wouldn't have thought about Scott's
"trade-them-for-the-wrong-size-and-sell-them" gambit, but I'm not a devious
asshole troll.

"Steve Sullivan" wrote in message
...


...B) the problems with the waders were all bellow the waist...

Um.....pardon me, but one can hardly escape the conclusion that some of them
were actually above the neck.

Wolfgang
which, unless one walks with one's rear flippers skyward, is bound to cause
some serious warantee issues.

"Steve Sullivan" wrote...
"Tim J." wrote:

Steve - take a deep breath and step AWAY from the keyboard.

You also said in your post, "I have made a complaint to the BBB about ADG
and
TIE-FAST (aka Sierra Stream and Mountain, in Chico ca)." As Scott said, your
beef isn't with ADG, but with the store that allegedly forced you to buy the
incorrect size.

Where did I alleged that the stored forced me to buy the incorrect size?

Your words were, "The salesman, Lincoln Gray did have concerns about the waders
being tight in the stomach. AFTER the salesman voiced his concerns, I asked
the owner, Ron Lewis, if I should get special ordered waders. He said the extra
cost was a concern and that he recommended that I get the Medium Kings that the
customer did not pick up. THAT WAS RON LEWIS, THE OWNER¹S RECOMMENDATION, I DID
NOT INSIST ON GETTING THE MEDIUM KINGS!!" That indicates to me that you're
attempting to blame the store owner for the incorrect fit causing at least some
of the problem with the booties and not taking any of the blame yourself.
Otherwise, why would you have mentioned the "fit" issue?

The problem is with the neoprene booties. The problem has nothing to do
with the waders being tight in the stomach. ADG rescinded my warranty
because TIE-FAST claimed I insisted on buying the waders.
A) tie-fast lied
B) the holes in the feet have nothing to do with the waders being tight
in the stomach.

This is entirely a warranty issue of waders less than 6 months old with
a 5 year warranty that has been voided by the manufacturer. If ADG had
said "ok, send in your waders and we will give you a new pair of the
same sized waders" I would not be unhappy. The fact that ADG rescinded
the warranty makes them a part of this. I sent them a email saying that
A) TIE-FAST did not tell the truth about my "insisting" on getting the
waders
B) the problems with the waders were all bellow the waist
C) I also gave them the name of the person at Fish First who looked at
the waders, and confirmed that it is a manufacturer issue.

All that said, I would still forget about it and buy another set of waders. With
this kind of wording in their warranty:

"*Wader Warranty:
5 Year prorated warranty, provided in the warranty tags. Exempt from abuse,
neglect, wear/tear, professional use, guides, and/or excessive usage. Excessive
usage is determined by ADG®"

you're in a no-win situation. If ADG has decided your situation falls within the
last sentence of that warranty, you can't win. Companies like Simms and Orvis
will usually try harder to satisfy than the lesser-knowns.
--
TL,
Tim
http://css.sbcma.com/timj