Caddis searching pattern - from failure to success

rw wrote:

The best caddis searching pattern, if I had to pick just one, is a PT
nymph.


I would agree as a general searching pattern but for a caddis specific
one, I vote for a soft hackle hands down.

Willi

rw wrote:

The best caddis searching pattern, if I had to pick just one, is a PT
nymph.


I would agree as a general searching pattern but for a caddis specific
one, I vote for a soft hackle hands down.

Willi

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:22:12 -0600, Willi wrote:



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.


You read my mind -- I'm thinking about the same fly sans wing --
however - - - -

When this fly is held in the current, I get a very natural V shape
wing in the water. I think the wing may say "caddis" more loudly,
when viewed from underneath. We can never know exactly what makes a
trout strike one particular fly over another, though we can usually
make some decent inferences. So . . . I'm loathed to tamper with it
as it appears to work as is.

My brown trout weamer works. Every, and I do mean every modification
I've made to that fly to "improve" it in some way, has reduced its
effectiveness, sometimes to the point of zero. I go back to the
original and good things happen all over again.

Peter

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On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:22:12 -0600, Willi wrote:



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.


You read my mind -- I'm thinking about the same fly sans wing --
however - - - -

When this fly is held in the current, I get a very natural V shape
wing in the water. I think the wing may say "caddis" more loudly,
when viewed from underneath. We can never know exactly what makes a
trout strike one particular fly over another, though we can usually
make some decent inferences. So . . . I'm loathed to tamper with it
as it appears to work as is.

My brown trout weamer works. Every, and I do mean every modification
I've made to that fly to "improve" it in some way, has reduced its
effectiveness, sometimes to the point of zero. I go back to the
original and good things happen all over again.

Peter

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Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:22:12 -0600, Willi wrote:



Glad to hear you're getting out!

I find that it's common to miss fish on a fly fished on the swing or
with any type of action for that matter. I agree that fine wire hooks
will help with hookups.

You might try a simple soft hackle pattern in the same size and colors
ie. no wing, instead. I'm guessing that it would be just as effective
while being easier to tie.


You read my mind -- I'm thinking about the same fly sans wing --
however - - - -

When this fly is held in the current, I get a very natural V shape
wing in the water. I think the wing may say "caddis" more loudly,
when viewed from underneath. We can never know exactly what makes a
trout strike one particular fly over another, though we can usually
make some decent inferences. So . . . I'm loathed to tamper with it
as it appears to work as is.

My brown trout weamer works. Every, and I do mean every modification
I've made to that fly to "improve" it in some way, has reduced its
effectiveness, sometimes to the point of zero. I go back to the
original and good things happen all over again.

Peter

turn mailhot into hotmail to reply

Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...ers/index.html

On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:22:42 -0600, Willi wrote:



Mu Young Lee wrote:

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

But oh my, does it get attention on the swing.


I've only had limited success with that. Anyone out there have generic
clues as to where and when this techniques is effective?


That's THE question. The technique is an easy and fun one but figuring
out when to use it is what's tough. It's a technique that works better
in some places than in others and I've been unable to find the reason
for it. It's is an especially good technique on my home river during the
Summer. Below are some things I have picked up about fishing a fly with
action, whether it be skittering or swinging or lifting or......

Times to try it:

When there are active flies about - caddis, stoneflies, craneflies, etc.
about

When you see splashy rises

During the dog days of Summer when you don't want to dredge the deep
holes for fish, fishing feeding riffles and giving your fly some action
will sometimes bring fish out of their doldrums.

When you see flashes of fish up in the water column.

When you haven't had any success with more traditional methods.


Places to try it:

Like Peter said, shallow riffles are probably the number one place.

The upstream lip of pools.

Sometime a slow dead driftish swing through a pool will work.


Willi

I think the "where" is more easily answered -- where the bugs are.
That's not a facetious answer -- the Hydropsyche I'm imitating is a
lover of fast riffles -- which is probably why it is useless dead
drifted in slow water. Every single hit I had yesterday came in fast
water on the swing.

I'm a lazy fisherman who knows too much. I have to force myself to
use my knowledge to fish more effectively. I like to teach others but
I can't be bothered to do it myself unless, of course, I'm doing a
demo. I'm out to relax so concentrating on a miriad of little details
is too much like work. BUT! There's no doubt in my mind that if you
key in on a few bugs, learn their habits, and learn to fish them
according to their habits, your hit rate is gonna go way up. I've
made the decision that I'm going to pay close attention to just three
bugs, Hydropsyche, Cheumatopsyche, and Rhyacophillia -- learn where
they live and how they live, then fish them accordingly. These bugs
cover the waters I fish in Southern Ontario and are abundant through
most of the season, with only the need to add the Little Black Caddis
in the late spring, before my trimvirate gets active. I'll keep some
mayflies in the box for those days when they're abundant, but if I'm
not swinging a streamer, I'll be swinging these instead.

If I see any caddis hitting the water, that's my signal to get these
swinging. If I see bulging or jumping rises, that the signal to swing
emergers and tossing dries instead. If I see nothing anywhere, then
I'll swing these through a riffle simply because I don't like
nymphing.


Peter

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On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Well is it so critical to use a caddis pattern or will the old-fashioned
"variants" and "spiders" work just as well?
__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
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On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Well is it so critical to use a caddis pattern or will the old-fashioned
"variants" and "spiders" work just as well?
__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
remove all dashes and underscores in reply address

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Well is it so critical to use a caddis pattern or will the old-fashioned
"variants" and "spiders" work just as well?
__________________________________________________ _____________________
\ Mu Young Lee
remove all dashes and underscores in reply address

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:13:51 -0400, Mu Young Lee
wrote:

On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Peter Charles wrote:

As far as the swing goes with this pattern, the first third dead
drifted didn't produce a single hit. The middle third where tension
comes on then fly and it accelerates towards the middle of the creek
produced about 40% of the hits and the last third, where the fly was
slowing down, produced the bulk.

Well is it so critical to use a caddis pattern or will the old-fashioned
"variants" and "spiders" work just as well?


Based on this sole experience, I did way better with this fly than
when I've used P&Os and the like on Whitemans.



Peter

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