The Future of Fly Fishing in America ?

Jonathan Cook wrote
JR wrote:

They are "owed" their stolen land. But since "we" stole it fair and
square and all, the most they have a prayer of ever getting--even in a

If you start thinking about what it _really_ means to "own"
land, issues like this can be seen in wildly different lights...

You're right. Which is why Indians tend to regard issues like this as
unspeakable tragedies, while modern European-Americans--products of a
highly mobile society--think it's simply another thing that happened
long ago and that the Indians should "just get over it, already."

Native Americans' problems with their new friends began in large part from
basic differences in the notion of ownership of the land. Read the
histories. They were almost always willing to share at first, to see the
other guys' side of things. They simply couldn't conceive that the
newcomers would want exclusive (and exclusionary) use of ALL the land.
Well, all but a tiny fraction of the land, a fraction that grew smaller
and smaller with every new "agreement," a fraction into which the Indians
would be herded and confined, a fraction often far from their own natal,
ancestral lands, which were imbued with cultural and religious
significance mostly unimaginable to the Europeans.

JR

Jonathan Cook wrote
JR wrote:

They are "owed" their stolen land. But since "we" stole it fair and
square and all, the most they have a prayer of ever getting--even in a

If you start thinking about what it _really_ means to "own"
land, issues like this can be seen in wildly different lights...

You're right. Which is why Indians tend to regard issues like this as
unspeakable tragedies, while modern European-Americans--products of a
highly mobile society--think it's simply another thing that happened
long ago and that the Indians should "just get over it, already."

Native Americans' problems with their new friends began in large part from
basic differences in the notion of ownership of the land. Read the
histories. They were almost always willing to share at first, to see the
other guys' side of things. They simply couldn't conceive that the
newcomers would want exclusive (and exclusionary) use of ALL the land.
Well, all but a tiny fraction of the land, a fraction that grew smaller
and smaller with every new "agreement," a fraction into which the Indians
would be herded and confined, a fraction often far from their own natal,
ancestral lands, which were imbued with cultural and religious
significance mostly unimaginable to the Europeans.

JR

Jonathan Cook wrote
JR wrote:

They are "owed" their stolen land. But since "we" stole it fair and
square and all, the most they have a prayer of ever getting--even in a

If you start thinking about what it _really_ means to "own"
land, issues like this can be seen in wildly different lights...

You're right. Which is why Indians tend to regard issues like this as
unspeakable tragedies, while modern European-Americans--products of a
highly mobile society--think it's simply another thing that happened
long ago and that the Indians should "just get over it, already."

Native Americans' problems with their new friends began in large part from
basic differences in the notion of ownership of the land. Read the
histories. They were almost always willing to share at first, to see the
other guys' side of things. They simply couldn't conceive that the
newcomers would want exclusive (and exclusionary) use of ALL the land.
Well, all but a tiny fraction of the land, a fraction that grew smaller
and smaller with every new "agreement," a fraction into which the Indians
would be herded and confined, a fraction often far from their own natal,
ancestral lands, which were imbued with cultural and religious
significance mostly unimaginable to the Europeans.

JR

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Just remembered another case of Indian land ownership. The Big Horn in
Montana. I believe the lodges and guides on the Big Horn pay something to the
Crow Tribe. All of the land from Hardin to the Wyoming border is Crow
Reservation. Some very nice land. I am sure there are other instances of
Indian ownership of land.

I also don't see how restitution could ever be fairly done, however, to
say that they were given some "very nice land" is bull****. SOME of it
might be somewhat desirable now for reasons unseen at the time but most
is pretty ****ty land. Tt was the land that "the white man" didn't
want. When the "white man" changed his mind and decided he wanted the
land that he had "given" to the Indians, he just took it.

Willi

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Just remembered another case of Indian land ownership. The Big Horn in
Montana. I believe the lodges and guides on the Big Horn pay something to the
Crow Tribe. All of the land from Hardin to the Wyoming border is Crow
Reservation. Some very nice land. I am sure there are other instances of
Indian ownership of land.

I also don't see how restitution could ever be fairly done, however, to
say that they were given some "very nice land" is bull****. SOME of it
might be somewhat desirable now for reasons unseen at the time but most
is pretty ****ty land. Tt was the land that "the white man" didn't
want. When the "white man" changed his mind and decided he wanted the
land that he had "given" to the Indians, he just took it.

Willi

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote in
:

(NC near Bryson and some land near Peter Charles'
home) seems pretty good, and in the NC case, they get *lots* of help
from the federal government.


The Canucks have come face to face with what they owe their aboriginals
over the past decade or so. I don't remember how that worked out. Maybe
Peter can update us.

Scott

Ya'll ever wonder what it is that compels you to deal with this sick piece
of **** that has been sucking on the taxpayers' tit for the last half
century like a human being?

Wolfgang
i do.

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
. 1.4...
irate (Dave LaCourse) wrote in
:

(NC near Bryson and some land near Peter Charles'
home) seems pretty good, and in the NC case, they get *lots* of help
from the federal government.


The Canucks have come face to face with what they owe their aboriginals
over the past decade or so. I don't remember how that worked out. Maybe
Peter can update us.

Scott

Ya'll ever wonder what it is that compels you to deal with this sick piece
of **** that has been sucking on the taxpayers' tit for the last half
century like a human being?

Wolfgang
i do.

In article 20041203091002.06685.00000732@mb-
m24.aol.com, irate says...
Ridiculous! The native Americans have more than made up for it *in some
places* with their gambling casinos. You and I owe them nothing.



Bravo! This is a majestic bit of babbling dumb-ass
insanity that Dickie Dean his own self would have been
proud of!

Kevin
He couldn't possibly have been serious, could he?

--
reply to:
kevin dot vang at minotstatu dot edu

In article 20041203091002.06685.00000732@mb-
m24.aol.com, irate says...
Ridiculous! The native Americans have more than made up for it *in some
places* with their gambling casinos. You and I owe them nothing.



Bravo! This is a majestic bit of babbling dumb-ass
insanity that Dickie Dean his own self would have been
proud of!

Kevin
He couldn't possibly have been serious, could he?

--
reply to:
kevin dot vang at minotstatu dot edu

"JR" wrote in message
...
...They were almost always willing to share at first, to see the
other guys' side of things...

Bull****, pure and simple. Good God, do ANY of you people know how to read?

Wolfgang