Middle Fork

Tim J. wrote:
rw wrote:
snip

Of course, I'd rather apologize on ROFF than spend 12 minutes, let
alone 12 days, with either you or LaCourse.


For the life of me, I do not understand your motivation in hijacking
this thread from abpf, crossposting to roff, and writing this gem. It
seems like you're stirring the pot of bitterness to bring the worst to
the surface, but maybe I'm wrong and there is another reason. Could you
please explain?

It's very simple. The thread took a turn away from the Middle Fork and
toward how much it costs for a major fishing trip. This is interesting
to me, and I thought probably to some people on ROFF, and certainly more
relevant for ROFF than for ABPF. If you're willing to give up on using a
guide and rough it, you can go some pretty exotic places on the cheap.
The Belize trip, for example, was very inexpensive, and although the
fishing wasn't as good as we expected, overall the trip was easily worth
it. This upcoming Alaska trip is going to interesting because (1) it's
long, (2) I'm going with some other ROFF people, (3) we're going to have
to fend for ourselves on a very remote river, and (4) the Kanektok is
supposed to have great fishing for rainbows, silvers (that time of
year), char, and grayling. And we're not spending much, even though
Alaska is known for being very expensive. We're spending less per person
than it costs for a typical guided one-week trip on the Middle Fork of
the Salmon, and the fishing should be incomparably better. It takes a
heck of a lot of planning, though.

Now I'll admit that I probably shouldn't have included the dig at
Fortenberry and LaCourse that you quote, but that wasn't really my
point. They insist on insulting me and calling names, so I'm not going
to lose any sleep over it.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

rw wrote:

It's very simple. ...

That's for sure. You're an arrogant, condescending jackass
and a mean-spirited piece of ****. If you have to have
someone change the sheets and wipe your ass was a totally
uncalled for snideness about Louie's Labrador trips. FYI
Mr. I Can Be An Insufferable Snob On The Cheap, guides are
required by law in Labrador so all this Belize-Alaska
braggadocio is as irrelevant as it is distasteful. You
hijacked the thread to toss off some nastiness and boast
about how clever you are. You're a ****in' putz.

Now I'll admit that I probably shouldn't have included the dig at
Fortenberry and LaCourse that you quote, but that wasn't really my
point.

You're a liar *and* a ****in' putz.

--
Ken Fortenberry

rw wrote:
Tim J. wrote:
rw wrote:
snip

Of course, I'd rather apologize on ROFF than spend 12 minutes, let
alone 12 days, with either you or LaCourse.

For the life of me, I do not understand your motivation in hijacking
this thread from abpf, crossposting to roff, and writing this gem. It
seems like you're stirring the pot of bitterness to bring the worst
to the surface, but maybe I'm wrong and there is another reason.
Could you please explain?

It's very simple. The thread took a turn away from the Middle Fork and
toward how much it costs for a major fishing trip.
snipped understandable part

Now I'll admit that I probably shouldn't have included the dig at
Fortenberry and LaCourse that you quote, but that wasn't really my
point. They insist on insulting me and calling names, so I'm not going
to lose any sleep over it.

Got it. So you *were* just stirring the pot of bitterness. Too bad.
Someone should throw that spoon and the entire cauldron away.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

Tim J. wrote:

Got it. So you *were* just stirring the pot of bitterness. Too bad.

Look at the level of invective and bitterness being spewed by
Fortenberry and LaCourse and get back to me.

You can believe anything you want, Tim. It's a free country. Everyone
knows that I don't get along with Fortenberry and LaCourse, and I'm
hardly alone in that regard, but my motive for crossposting that message
was simply to bring up the topic of cheap, self-guided, and let's say
"extreme" fishing trips. I could have done it in a better way, and I
regret including the dig.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

rw wrote:
Tim J. wrote:

Got it. So you *were* just stirring the pot of bitterness. Too bad.

Look at the level of invective and bitterness being spewed by
Fortenberry and LaCourse and get back to me.

I think it's "too bad" either way it flows and have said so.

You can believe anything you want, Tim. It's a free country. Everyone
knows that I don't get along with Fortenberry and LaCourse, and I'm
hardly alone in that regard, but my motive for crossposting that
message was simply to bring up the topic of cheap, self-guided, and
let's say "extreme" fishing trips. I could have done it in a better
way, and I regret including the dig.

FWIW (and it ain't much), I think better of you since you regret the
dig.
--
TL,
Tim
------------------------
http://css.sbcma.com/timj

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:15:44 GMT, rw
wrote:

They insist on insulting me and calling names, so I'm not going
to lose any sleep over it.

Your use of the pronoun "they" is a lie. I have not called you
anything except Barnard in these recent threads. I did say that when
I float the Middle Fork of the Salmon (probably next year) that I hope
I don't run into any putzes. Now, your insistence that I was
referring to you can only mean that Fortenberry is correct in calling
you a putz. You saw the word and immediately identified yourself with
it. Do you recognize yourself as a putz? Simply because Forty says
you are? Very funny, really. Sad, but very funny.

I do hope you have a good trip in Alaska. Do you have a bear fense
available for use, or are you going to take a chance that they will
not bother you? What kind of boats will you be using. Sounds
exciting, and if I was younger and not so sick I would love to do
exactly what you are going to do.

Please tell us more about this trip. You are correct in bringing it
up on roff, but not by morphing it from Fortenberry's original Middle
Fork thread of abf. A simple new thread "cheasp fishing trips" would
have sufficed.

You seem to condemn those of us that can afford a "lodge" trip instead
of "roughing it". For the life of me, I can not see why. A lodge is
the only way you can fish some places, especially Labrador and
Kamchatka.

Dave LaCourse wrote:

Your use of the pronoun "they" is a lie. I have not called you
anything except Barnard in these recent threads. I did say that when
I float the Middle Fork of the Salmon (probably next year) that I hope
I don't run into any putzes. Now, your insistence that I was
referring to you can only mean that Fortenberry is correct in calling
you a putz. You saw the word and immediately identified yourself with
it. Do you recognize yourself as a putz? Simply because Forty says
you are? Very funny, really. Sad, but very funny.

Oh, so you weren't trying to insult me when you said you hope you don't
run into any putzes? That's pretty hard to believe, Dave.

I do hope you have a good trip in Alaska. Do you have a bear fense
available for use,

What's bear fense?

or are you going to take a chance that they will
not bother you? What kind of boats will you be using. Sounds
exciting, and if I was younger and not so sick I would love to do
exactly what you are going to do.

Please tell us more about this trip. You are correct in bringing it
up on roff, but not by morphing it from Fortenberry's original Middle
Fork thread of abf. A simple new thread "cheasp fishing trips" would
have sufficed.

You seem to condemn those of us that can afford a "lodge" trip instead
of "roughing it". For the life of me, I can not see why. A lodge is
the only way you can fish some places, especially Labrador and
Kamchatka.

I'm sure the Rapid is a great river and the lodge is excellent, but I'm
frugal -- some might say cheap -- and $3000 plus transportation is too
rich for my blood. Plus, I like the idea of a challenging and
adventurous trip.

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:08:35 GMT, rw
wrote:

Oh, so you weren't trying to insult me when you said you hope you don't
run into any putzes? That's pretty hard to believe, Dave.

Try, Barnard, try to believe it. I hope I don't run into any putzes
on *any* river I float/fish. I mean, it's only human to keep away
from putzes.

I do hope you have a good trip in Alaska. Do you have a bear fense
available for use,

What's bear fense?

Oooops. Me dumb. Make that bear fence. It is an electric fence you
put up around your camping area to keep the brown bears away from you
and yours. Most guided expeditionary type trips in Alaska have such a
fence to protect you from the bears. I saw them in use on Moraine
Creek. The female guide leading the three pontoon rafts (and one
support raft) swears by them.

or are you going to take a chance that they will
not bother you? What kind of boats will you be using. Sounds
exciting, and if I was younger and not so sick I would love to do
exactly what you are going to do.

Please tell us more about this trip. You are correct in bringing it
up on roff, but not by morphing it from Fortenberry's original Middle
Fork thread of abf. A simple new thread "cheasp fishing trips" would
have sufficed.

You seem to condemn those of us that can afford a "lodge" trip instead
of "roughing it". For the life of me, I can not see why. A lodge is
the only way you can fish some places, especially Labrador and
Kamchatka.

I'm sure the Rapid is a great river and the lodge is excellent, but I'm
frugal -- some might say cheap -- and $3000 plus transportation is too
rich for my blood. Plus, I like the idea of a challenging and
adventurous trip.


The Rapid costs nothing to fish if you want to walk in each day. But
you have to sleep somewhere. I'm too old and sore for camping, so
Lakewood Cabins is where I stay. They charge only $125/night and that
includes three very good meals a day. I doubt you could stay in a
hotel/motel and feed yourself for than kind of money and be on the
Rapid.

Labrador costs about $3000/week, but it is the ONLY way you can fish
the rivers where the big brookies/salmon/laketrout/pike are. If you
venture more than 100 yards from a highway, you must hire a local
guide. Hardly seems fair, but last I checked, that was the law. So,
your argument holds no water either with Lakewood or Labrador.


--