Line/rod weights and types of fish

Oz wrote:
Howdy,

Hi.

...My question revolves around practicality and what I should purchase to fish
locally....

Most of the advice you've gotten here is pretty good.....as it
generally is. You may take it as a given that it is now, and
typically, worth a great deal more than you paid for it.

However, the equipment you put your money into, while an important
ingredient in a satisfying fly fishing experience, can be no better
than what's using it, regardless of cost or quality. Don't forget to
invest heavily in a good arm, eyes, sense of rhythm, etc. Even
moderately good technique is infinitely more adaptable and valuable
than the finest bits of stuff.

Thanks for your help and advice.

You're welcome.

Oz

Wolfgang

By the way, if you buy a used rod on eBay etc, then even if you don't like
it you can probably sell it back for what you got it for and get a different
size/type.

Oz wrote:
Howdy,

I am very interested in flyfishing and I want to start purchasing the
equipment to begin in the Spring (I live in SE Michigan, near Ann Arbor, and
it is starting to become crappy outside so I figure I should start preparing
for Spring now - or at least start asking questions).

My question revolves around practicality and what I should purchase to fish
locally. We have a ton of lakes and one very good river (the Huron River) in
my neighborhood. I would be fishing primarily for large mouth and small
mouth bass and pan fish. Is there a single rod and reel that I could
purchase to fish this variety of species - maybe a 6 weight? At this point,
I am looking for lower end/beginner equipment because I am just beginning
and would like to get my 15 year old son involved too. So, quite frankly, I
am looking for something that would get us started and something that we
could use to fish for the species I indicated.

Thanks for your help and advice.

6 wt is a little much for bass. But why wait until spring? You aren't
too far from some great
steelhead fishing, are you? For that the 6 wt is just right, with a
disc drag large arbor reel.

Oz

On 4 Nov 2006 18:58:54 -0800, wrote:


Oz wrote:
Howdy,

I am very interested in flyfishing and I want to start purchasing the
equipment to begin in the Spring (I live in SE Michigan, near Ann Arbor, and
it is starting to become crappy outside so I figure I should start preparing
for Spring now - or at least start asking questions).

My question revolves around practicality and what I should purchase to fish
locally. We have a ton of lakes and one very good river (the Huron River) in
my neighborhood. I would be fishing primarily for large mouth and small
mouth bass and pan fish. Is there a single rod and reel that I could
purchase to fish this variety of species - maybe a 6 weight? At this point,
I am looking for lower end/beginner equipment because I am just beginning
and would like to get my 15 year old son involved too. So, quite frankly, I
am looking for something that would get us started and something that we
could use to fish for the species I indicated.

Thanks for your help and advice.

6 wt is a little much for bass. But why wait until spring? You aren't
too far from some great
steelhead fishing, are you? For that the 6 wt is just right, with a
disc drag large arbor reel.

Oz

Those must be some pretty small steelhead...or they're being played to
exhaustion...

/daytripper

wrote in message
oups.com...

"6 wt is a little much for bass. But why wait until spring? You aren't too
far from some great steelhead fishing, are you? For that the 6 wt is just
right, with a disc drag large arbor reel."

I really like that idea but I don't know how to fly fish right now. So, I
have some work to do before I actually make it to a stream.

Let me follow your great comment up with what may seem a silly question.
You wrote that 6 wt is a little much for bass. So, I'm guessing that you
feel that 5 wt is better for bass (asking because I really don't know - I've
always used a spinning rod and reel and have never had a problem bringing in
any fish with, say, a 20 lb test line). What is the largest, weight wise,
fish that you can land with a 5 wt line in fly fishing? I guess that was
what my original question should have stated.

Oz

"Oz" wrote in message
t...

Let me follow your great comment up with what may seem a silly question.
You wrote that 6 wt is a little much for bass. So, I'm guessing that you
feel that 5 wt is better for bass (asking because I really don't know -
I've always used a spinning rod and reel and have never had a problem
bringing in any fish with, say, a 20 lb test line). What is the largest,
weight wise, fish that you can land with a 5 wt line in fly fishing? I
guess that was what my original question should have stated.

It just doesn't work that way Oz. The line is pretty much a moot point,
since it will virtually always be stronger than your tippet. Figure out
what you want to *cast* first, then figure out the line wt from that. You
won't have a problem catching any size bass on a 5 wt rod, but you will have
a problem casting some of the larger flies you'll probably want to use. A 6
wt is by no means too big for bass. In fact, most use 6-8 wt rods for bass.

"jeffc" wrote in message
m...

"Oz" wrote in message
t...

Let me follow your great comment up with what may seem a silly question.
You wrote that 6 wt is a little much for bass. So, I'm guessing that you
feel that 5 wt is better for bass (asking because I really don't know -
I've always used a spinning rod and reel and have never had a problem
bringing in any fish with, say, a 20 lb test line). What is the largest,
weight wise, fish that you can land with a 5 wt line in fly fishing? I
guess that was what my original question should have stated.

It just doesn't work that way Oz. The line is pretty much a moot point,
since it will virtually always be stronger than your tippet. Figure out
what you want to *cast* first, then figure out the line wt from that. You
won't have a problem catching any size bass on a 5 wt rod, but you will
have a problem casting some of the larger flies you'll probably want to
use. A 6 wt is by no means too big for bass. In fact, most use 6-8 wt
rods for bass.

Okay, I think I get it now. It really has nothing to do with the size of
the fish you are trying to land and everything to do with the fly you are
presenting. And, the fly is dependant upon the fish you are trying to land.

Gotcha.

"Oz" wrote in message
...

"jeffc" wrote in message
m...

"Oz" wrote in message
t...

Let me follow your great comment up with what may seem a silly question.
You wrote that 6 wt is a little much for bass. So, I'm guessing that
you feel that 5 wt is better for bass (asking because I really don't
know - I've always used a spinning rod and reel and have never had a
problem bringing in any fish with, say, a 20 lb test line). What is the
largest, weight wise, fish that you can land with a 5 wt line in fly
fishing? I guess that was what my original question should have stated.

It just doesn't work that way Oz. The line is pretty much a moot point,
since it will virtually always be stronger than your tippet. Figure out
what you want to *cast* first, then figure out the line wt from that.
You won't have a problem catching any size bass on a 5 wt rod, but you
will have a problem casting some of the larger flies you'll probably want
to use. A 6 wt is by no means too big for bass. In fact, most use 6-8
wt rods for bass.

Okay, I think I get it now. It really has nothing to do with the size of
the fish you are trying to land and everything to do with the fly you are
presenting. And, the fly is dependant upon the fish you are trying to
land.

Gotcha.



Also looking at a new 8wt, as tip broke off mine in the tube. Lost about
10". I use the 8 wt for stripers and shad. Looking for a resonable priced
rod.

"Oz" wrote in message
...

Okay, I think I get it now. It really has nothing to do with the size of
the fish you are trying to land and everything to do with the fly you are
presenting. And, the fly is dependant upon the fish you are trying to
land.

Exactly! Um.....well, mostly. The selection of the rod actually DOES have
something to do with the size of the fish you are trying to land. Fishing
for, say steelhead, for instance, with a 2 wt. rod is not only absurd but
also irresponsible. As others have said, the tippet is the weakest link in
the chain between you and the fish. This is true not only for reasons
having to do with casting mechanics and presentation, but also as insurance
to protect more valuable elements.....which includes almost everything else
in the system. A 2 wt. fly rod is a fragile thing; light tippet helps you
prevent snapping your rod by putting too much stress on it while fighting a
fish. Now, if you want to land a five pound steelhead with terminal tackle
appropriate for a 2 wt. rod you are going to have to be very gentle, which
means taking a lot of time to tire the fish, which greatly increases the
likelihood of killing it. Of course, you may intend to kill it anyway, but
your chances of landing it successfully, however careful and gentle you are
with your equipment, are very low. So, you end up with a very good chance
of losing the fish.....and killing it anyway.

Wolfgang

On 4 Nov 2006 18:58:54 -0800, wrote:


Oz wrote:
Howdy,

I am very interested in flyfishing and I want to start purchasing the
equipment to begin in the Spring (I live in SE Michigan, near Ann Arbor, and
it is starting to become crappy outside so I figure I should start preparing
for Spring now - or at least start asking questions).

My question revolves around practicality and what I should purchase to fish
locally. We have a ton of lakes and one very good river (the Huron River) in
my neighborhood. I would be fishing primarily for large mouth and small
mouth bass and pan fish. Is there a single rod and reel that I could
purchase to fish this variety of species - maybe a 6 weight? At this point,
I am looking for lower end/beginner equipment because I am just beginning
and would like to get my 15 year old son involved too. So, quite frankly, I
am looking for something that would get us started and something that we
could use to fish for the species I indicated.

Thanks for your help and advice.

6 wt is a little much for bass.

No, it isn't.

But why wait until spring? You aren't too far from some great
steelhead fishing, are you? For that the 6 wt is just right,

No, it isn't.

with a disc drag large arbor reel.

Not even with that, and the size of the arbor has nothing to do with the
weight rating of the rod or the line, and adds nothing to the overall
"strength" of any of the components.

As to the rest of the "what weight is correct?" discussion, here's my
take:

Rods are designed (generally speaking, it's the taper with a given
material choice) to load properly at a particular range of weight. With
regard to line weight, it is not a "chicken-or-the-egg" thing - a line
is simply made so as that its first 30 feet weigh a certain amount, so
that it will load rods _designed_ to load at the rated weight - the rod
came first, as it were. Unless you know what you are doing, always
choose a line that matches your rod weight (although stepping up one
weight is _generally_ safe, especially with shorter casts). The weight
of the fly is generally not an issue, except when using an obviously
mismatched combination, like a big sal****er fly (or even a big bass
bug) on a 2. Once you get in the range of 6-7, the fly's weight in
relation to the weight required to load the rod will generally become
non-material.

As to what weight is appropriate to what quarry, that's a purely
subjective exercise, but certain "rules of thumb" can provide a guide.
The entire setup should allow for the quickest possible landing of the
quarry without damage to fish, rod, or tackle AND still permit a
breakoff without damage to fish or rod. It should not be so light as to
_require_ an experienced, gentle hand and inordinate amounts of time to
successfully land the quarry, and this means that the tippet be
carefully considered, too. There really is no such thing as "too
much" rod for the quarry from a capacity standpoint, but there can be a
practical-sense "overkill" that makes casting tiring and problematic for
the fisher - using a big 12 for panfish, for example.

As to your specific situation, I'd say that a soft(er), slow(er) 6 is
just about right, and certainly no less than a 5. While folks use 4s
and less on the types of quarry you mention, it would be a little light
on some quarry in these categories, and the "casting effort" required
for the range of 6s is not significantly greater than that of the range
of 4s. Plus, with a novice, a lot of breakoffs is going to be
discouraging. IMO, get a medium-ish action 6 as a starter.

As to the reel, given your quarry, it won't matter much - it'll mostly
function as a line storage device. Just get whatever appeals to you and
your budget. Keep in mind that a particular reel can be used on a range
of weights of rods, and as such, if the budget allows, a better reel
might be a good choice when viewed as cost over time.

Temple Fork Outfitters (commonly referred to as "TFO" here on ROFF,
www.templeforkflyrods.com) makes some great rods with great prices and
warranties, and if your local shop doesn't carry them, Walt Winter,
www.ezflyfisher.com, is a good source of equipment in general. And in
either case, I have no personal interest in you buying from either.

TC,
R

Oz