hunters and landowners in Pa.- interesting rights and responsibilities under laww

On 3 Dec 2006 13:37:42 -0800, "the lying liberal from Lancaster"
wrote:
[i]

wrote:
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 21:09:33 -0500, vincent p. norris
wrote:

Pennsylvania courts generally hold that posting is required to exclude
hunters. See, e.g., Commonwealth v. Sweeley, 29 Pa. D. & C.4th 426, 433
(C.P. 1995) ("Open lands that are not posted or fenced off are presumed
open for recreational use by the public, especially in rural counties
where hunting and outdoor activities are common.").

f. . . it is the custom in wooded or rural areas to permit the
public to go hunting on private land . . . , anyone who goes hunting .
. . may reasonably assume, in the absence of posted notice or other
manifestation to the contrary, that there is the customary consent to
his entry upon private land to hunt or fish." \l "F90"

I live in Centre County, PA, and have always assumed that if I don't
see a NO HUNTING or NO TRESPASSING sign, I can hunt on that land.
Provided it's in the country and not obviously a home area, of course.

I've never had a problem.

. Signs must be placed on their own standard, not on trees or posts.

I would estimate that 99 and 44/100 % of the signs I've seen have been
on tree trunks.

vince

Un-flocking-believable...do you feel the need to post your home with a
sign that says "No one is allowed to come in and help themselves to
whatever they wish" to prevent people from doing such? Would you
support such a requirement? And how would you feel if you were required
to similarly post _every_ single possession you to which you have title?
As a landowner, I pay property taxes in a fair number of areas (and
can't homestead exempt) at the same rate as those who utilize the full
services those taxes support, and in several instances, I am required by
law to pay "non-resident" licensing to hunt or fish my own land. And
yet, if I don't post my land in a highly-specific method, I am construed
to be allowing its use as essentially open land. I make no claim to the
free-roaming game that might happen upon the land, only to my right to
control access to the land that I own. Yet you and others seem to think
trespass fair and just. So, I repeat - how to you feel about your own
home and possessions?

TC,
R


ps- as a landowner, you're pret-ty damn UNINFORMED about posting
statutes that have been in effect since the land was first settled by
the Pilgrims on the Mayflower...

Well whaddaya know - you learn something every day...I had no idea "the
Pilgrims on the Mayflower" first settled Pennsylvania...although, now
that you mention it, it might explain those funky-assed hats some of
them folks up yonder way tend to wear...

I guess it's time you "landowners" woke up and smelled the coffee ?

OK...have you decided yet?

wrote:[i]
On 3 Dec 2006 13:37:42 -0800, "the lying liberal from Lancaster"
wrote:


wrote:
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 21:09:33 -0500, vincent p. norris
wrote:

Pennsylvania courts generally hold that posting is required to exclude
hunters. See, e.g., Commonwealth v. Sweeley, 29 Pa. D. & C.4th 426, 433
(C.P. 1995) ("Open lands that are not posted or fenced off are presumed
open for recreational use by the public, especially in rural counties
where hunting and outdoor activities are common.").

f. . . it is the custom in wooded or rural areas to permit the
public to go hunting on private land . . . , anyone who goes hunting .
. . may reasonably assume, in the absence of posted notice or other
manifestation to the contrary, that there is the customary consent to
his entry upon private land to hunt or fish." \l "F90"

I live in Centre County, PA, and have always assumed that if I don't
see a NO HUNTING or NO TRESPASSING sign, I can hunt on that land.
Provided it's in the country and not obviously a home area, of course.

I've never had a problem.

. Signs must be placed on their own standard, not on trees or posts.

I would estimate that 99 and 44/100 % of the signs I've seen have been
on tree trunks.

vince

Un-flocking-believable...do you feel the need to post your home with a
sign that says "No one is allowed to come in and help themselves to
whatever they wish" to prevent people from doing such? Would you
support such a requirement? And how would you feel if you were required
to similarly post _every_ single possession you to which you have title?
As a landowner, I pay property taxes in a fair number of areas (and
can't homestead exempt) at the same rate as those who utilize the full
services those taxes support, and in several instances, I am required by
law to pay "non-resident" licensing to hunt or fish my own land. And
yet, if I don't post my land in a highly-specific method, I am construed
to be allowing its use as essentially open land. I make no claim to the
free-roaming game that might happen upon the land, only to my right to
control access to the land that I own. Yet you and others seem to think
trespass fair and just. So, I repeat - how to you feel about your own
home and possessions?

TC,
R


ps- as a landowner, you're pret-ty damn UNINFORMED about posting
statutes that have been in effect since the land was first settled by
the Pilgrims on the Mayflower...

Well whaddaya know - you learn something every day...I had no idea "the
Pilgrims on the Mayflower" first settled Pennsylvania...although, now
that you mention it, it might explain those funky-assed hats some of
them folks up yonder way tend to wear...

I guess it's time you "landowners" woke up and smelled the coffee ?

OK...have you decided yet?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Wolfgang
emeril oprah emeril latifah latifah absinthe emeril

wrote in message
...
....I had no idea "the
Pilgrims on the Mayflower" first settled Pennsylvania...although, now
that you mention it, it might explain those funky-assed hats some of
them folks up yonder way tend to wear...


that's my fishing hat, you nitwit!g
Tom

wrote:[i]
On 3 Dec 2006 13:37:42 -0800, "the lying liberal from Lancaster"
wrote:


wrote:
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 21:09:33 -0500, vincent p. norris
wrote:

Pennsylvania courts generally hold that posting is required to exclude
hunters. See, e.g., Commonwealth v. Sweeley, 29 Pa. D. & C.4th 426, 433
(C.P. 1995) ("Open lands that are not posted or fenced off are presumed
open for recreational use by the public, especially in rural counties
where hunting and outdoor activities are common.").

f. . . it is the custom in wooded or rural areas to permit the
public to go hunting on private land . . . , anyone who goes hunting .
. . may reasonably assume, in the absence of posted notice or other
manifestation to the contrary, that there is the customary consent to
his entry upon private land to hunt or fish." \l "F90"

I live in Centre County, PA, and have always assumed that if I don't
see a NO HUNTING or NO TRESPASSING sign, I can hunt on that land.
Provided it's in the country and not obviously a home area, of course.

I've never had a problem.

. Signs must be placed on their own standard, not on trees or posts.

I would estimate that 99 and 44/100 % of the signs I've seen have been
on tree trunks.

vince

Un-flocking-believable...do you feel the need to post your home with a
sign that says "No one is allowed to come in and help themselves to
whatever they wish" to prevent people from doing such? Would you
support such a requirement? And how would you feel if you were required
to similarly post _every_ single possession you to which you have title?
As a landowner, I pay property taxes in a fair number of areas (and
can't homestead exempt) at the same rate as those who utilize the full
services those taxes support, and in several instances, I am required by
law to pay "non-resident" licensing to hunt or fish my own land. And
yet, if I don't post my land in a highly-specific method, I am construed
to be allowing its use as essentially open land. I make no claim to the
free-roaming game that might happen upon the land, only to my right to
control access to the land that I own. Yet you and others seem to think
trespass fair and just. So, I repeat - how to you feel about your own
home and possessions?

TC,
R


ps- as a landowner, you're pret-ty damn UNINFORMED about posting
statutes that have been in effect since the land was first settled by
the Pilgrims on the Mayflower...

Well whaddaya know - you learn something every day...I had no idea "the
Pilgrims on the Mayflower" first settled Pennsylvania...although, now
that you mention it, it might explain those funky-assed hats some of
them folks up yonder way tend to wear...

I guess it's time you "landowners" woke up and smelled the coffee ?

OK...have you decided yet?


your posts are a poor excuse for not posting your land per statute...

maybe the time you spend windbagging here, you should spend posting
your land properly

vincent p. norris wrote:[i]
Pennsylvania courts generally hold that posting is required to exclude
hunters. See, e.g., Commonwealth v. Sweeley, 29 Pa. D. & C.4th 426, 433
(C.P. 1995) ("Open lands that are not posted or fenced off are presumed
open for recreational use by the public, especially in rural counties
where hunting and outdoor activities are common.").

f. . . it is the custom in wooded or rural areas to permit the
public to go hunting on private land . . . , anyone who goes hunting .
. . may reasonably assume, in the absence of posted notice or other
manifestation to the contrary, that there is the customary consent to
his entry upon private land to hunt or fish." \l "F90"

I live in Centre County, PA, and have always assumed that if I don't
see a NO HUNTING or NO TRESPASSING sign, I can hunt on that land.
Provided it's in the country and not obviously a home area, of course.

I've never had a problem.

. Signs must be placed on their own standard, not on trees or posts.

I would estimate that 99 and 44/100 % of the signs I've seen have been
on tree trunks.

vince


yes, trees get posted on more than anything- but there should be a
placard behind the poster- i.e. a square piece of plywood, etc. to hold
the poster flat, so it can be read- otherwise, in reality- the land
isn't posted per statute

I'm not advising to enter anyway if the poster is on a tree- but if
some hard-ass wanted to enter and dispute it, he'd have a valid, legal
reason to have the case dismissed

the landowner really has to walk the line when it comes to posting specs

ObROFF:

Some western US states have liberal stream-access laws -- Montana and
Idaho in particular, in my experience. If you stay below the high-water
mark you're legal. Some landowners on trout streams don't like this. Tough.

In other western US states, like Colorado (the only one I'm sure of),
trespassing and stream-access laws are far more in the landowners'
interest. The landowner doesn't have to post and he owns the stream, as
I understand it. You can get arrested, fined, lose your hunting and
fishing rights in neighboring states, and even go to prison for
misreading a map.

As a fisherman and hunter, I far prefer laws that require posting, and I
far prefer liberal stream access. Duh!

--
Cut "to the chase" for my email address.

rw wrote:
ObROFF:

Some western US states have liberal stream-access laws -- Montana and
Idaho in particular, in my experience. If you stay below the high-water
mark you're legal. Some landowners on trout streams don't like this. Tough.

In other western US states, like Colorado (the only one I'm sure of),
trespassing and stream-access laws are far more in the landowners'
interest. The landowner doesn't have to post and he owns the stream, as
I understand it. You can get arrested, fined, lose your hunting and
fishing rights in neighboring states, and even go to prison for
misreading a map.

As a fisherman and hunter, I far prefer laws that require posting, and I
far prefer liberal stream access. Duh!


good points- in Pa. all streams are owned by the commonwealth- it is
illegal for a landowner to dam or redirect or privately stock a stream
anywhere in Pa.- but the landowner retains rights on the land along the
stream- so if it's posted, you can't fish it- UNLESS you have hip boots
or chest waders, and walk IN the stream at all times- this is ok for
small streams, but larger rivers forget it- eventually the water is
just too deep or raging to walk in the stream at all times