the OSCARS!

" wrote in message
There you go with that partisan crap again.

:-)

I won't speak for any "political arena"....I'm sure making inflated
claims
about what you have done is perfectly acceptable in political circles.

That may be the basis of our disagreement on this issue. I believe the
record shows convincingly that during Gore's service in Congress, he was
instumental in instituting government policy and providing funding for the
agencies and organizations that provided impetus, funding, and opportunity
for the acceleration of the internet's creation/evolution into its present
form. I believe that in the context of a television interview during a
presidential campaign, practical machinations of the government, and the
necessity of brevity, that long winded sentence could reasonably and
truthfully be summarized into what Gore actually said in the CNN interview.
You, on the other hand, seem to believe otherwise.

As far as "in the industry" that's complete hogwash. Cerf and Kahn
would have caught crap by industry people if they had claimed to
have created the internet.....and they contributed far more than
Al Gore ever did.

Really? In their statement, they do seem to take a lot of credit, "But as
the two people
who designed the basic architecture and the core protocols that make the
Internet work," Of course, in the context of a multi-paragraph statement
prepared at leisure, they did have the ability to be a tad more precise and
verbose.


Most defense of Gore tries to rely on word spinning. That somehow
"creating the internet" is better than "inventing the internet."
I'll stick to the actual word he used if that makes you feel better.

I'd be more satisfied if you stick to the context, wherein he refers to what
he did in Congress. Hell, the "High Performance Computing and Communication
Act of 1991" was commonly referred to as the Gore Bill. This bill led to
the creation of the "National Intelligence Infrastructure", for which Gore
may have created the term Information Superhighway. No, Gore was no
programmer, but the internet owes its existence to more than the techies
like Cerf, Kahn, & you. And for that, I give Gore most of the credit on the
government side, as he claimed.


"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
initiative in creating the Internet."

The concept that Gore singlehandedly created the internet is so ludicrous, I
don't understand how anyone could sensibly interpret the meaning of his
statement to infer he meant that.

Yes, I'm a technical person and maybe politicians or other
simpletons can't see through unadulterated BS, but that
statement no matter how you try to justify it is BS......

It's because the "invented the internet" interpretation *is* so ridiculous,
I can't understand why any intelligent person, both of us included, would
interpret it as you seem intent on doing.

....and it's got nothing to do with right vs left vs middle.

The facts and record have nothing to do with left/right; but the inability
ta accept the reasonable interpretation seems to be.

Joe F.

" wrote in message
I can only assume by "disproven", you mean that someone told
you that he didn't say it?

Yes. Most recently - you.

Joe

On 3 Mar 2007 22:33:24 -0800, "
wrote:

On Mar 3, 9:03 pm, Cyli wrote:
Only if you retain that stupid attitude about Gore and the 'Net, which
has been disproven so many times. You know that all he claimed was
aiding in the legislation and funding for it, not inventing it, as it
had already been invented. He never claimed to do more than smooth
the way forward.

I can only assume by "disproven", you mean that someone told
you that he didn't say it? You really shouldn't take people's
word for things if you are going to call others stupid.

Fortunately transcripts of all the dumb things people say on
CNN get kept forever and ever.

Lest you accuse me of quoting him out of context, here's the
entire transcript:
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stori...anscript.gore/

And the relevant statements:

BLITZER: Why should Democrats, looking at the Democratic nomination
process,
support you instead of Bill Bradley, a friend of yours, a former
colleague in the
Senate? What do you have to bring to this that he doesn't necessarily
bring to
this process?

GO Well, I will be offering -- I'll be offering my vision when my
campaign
begins. And it will be comprehensive and sweeping. And I hope that it
will be
compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be.

But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've
traveled to
every part of this country during the last six years. During my
service in the
United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the
Internet. I took
the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that
have proven
to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental
protection, improvements in our educational system.

Best Wishes,
- Ken

Well, I do quibble over the 'invented', but 'created' does come close
enough to label him as someone careless with taking credit for a work
accomplished by a lot of people, when he should have shared the
credit.

However, the Internet as it was when he made that statement had been
greatly changed from the days before he pushed for the legislation. If
you had used it back in the 80s, you'd know that the difference was
astounding. It was a difficult to use toy for techies back in the
day, with not much to offer, say an ordinary housewife, other than a
game of D & D with people of other countries and some sorts of
official government blah blah, which you could get as easily and
probably as quickly (except in the middle of the night) by calling and
asking that the info be mailed to you or given you verbally.

Not to say that I like Gore a lot. I didn't like or approve of him
enough to vote for him (nor did I vote for Bush. Probably Libertarian
party that year.), but I hate to see him put down for the careless use
of phrasing that was then changed by those claiming to quote him and a
greed that didn't make sure to share a lot of credit.

I looked down the thread a ways and there's a lot of interesting stuff
posted there. Time to run through it and see what's new.

BTW, whose word did you take when you said 'invented'?
--

r.bc: vixen
Minnow goddess, Speaker to squirrels, willow watcher.
Almost entirely harmless. Really.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

On Mar 5, 11:22 pm, Cyli wrote:
On 3 Mar 2007 22:33:24 -0800, "
wrote:
During my
service in the
United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the
Internet.


Well, I do quibble over the 'invented', but 'created' does come close
enough to label him as someone careless with taking credit for a work
accomplished by a lot of people, when he should have shared the
credit.

Like I said, I'm an engineer, I read invented and created as nearly
the
same.

However, the Internet as it was when he made that statement had been
greatly changed from the days before he pushed for the legislation. If
you had used it back in the 80s, you'd know that the difference was
astounding.

I am "somwhat" familiar with computing from ~1980 onwards. :-)

Not to say that I like Gore a lot. I didn't like or approve of him
enough to vote for him (nor did I vote for Bush. Probably Libertarian
party that year.), but I hate to see him put down for the careless use
of phrasing that was then changed by those claiming to quote him and a
greed that didn't make sure to share a lot of credit.

I'm pretty much ambivalent on Gore as a politician. I probably
voted for the same person you did in 2000. He is quite the
blowhard.

On this quote, it's probably a techie thing. To a technical person
it's blatantly obvious that Gore did almost nothing to create the
internet. It's not a matter of him not sharing the credit, it's that
he's taking credit for something he had nothing to do with.
It'd be like me taking credit for landing a man on the moon.

Maybe a bit of a history lesson here. I'd suggest the
Computer History museum's "Internet History" page:

http://www.computerhistory.org/exhib...ernet_history/

For those who want to skip ahead, it ends with
"1990 ARPANET formally shuts down. In twenty years,
'the net' has grown from 4 to over 300,000 hosts. "

"By 1992, when this timeline ends,
* the Internet has one million hosts
* the ARPANET has ceased to exist
"

Gore's bill "creating the internet" was passed in December
1991.

BTW, whose word did you take when you said 'invented'?

I didn't take anyone's word for it. I heard about it, couldn't
believe
that even a politician would be that stupid, looked up the transcripts
and read them myself. Confirmed that apparently he is that
stupid.
- Ken

On Mar 6, 12:22 pm, " wrote:
To a technical person
it's blatantly obvious that Gore did almost nothing to create the
internet. It's not a matter of him not sharing the credit, it's that
he's taking credit for something he had nothing to do with.

As a technical person myself (that's right, I'm an engineer too); one
thing blatantly obvious to me is that I'm wasting my time discussing
this with someone who believes the above to be true.

It's been fun; but EOT for me,
Joe F.

During my
service in the
United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the
Internet.

I remember sometime back in 1991 when Physicist Paul Kunz called me into his
office and wanted me to take a picture of his what was on his monitor. He
called it; "www" and told me this will be one of the major break-throughs
for researching with a
computer. I photographed a lot of screen photos here at
the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center. Paul also hinted to me that I should
start thinking of attaching my name to a few www domains like ATT.com or
IBM.com., sky was the limit back then, heck I thought he was just another
mad physicist off his rocker.
Here's a link to the article:
http://www.slac.stanford.edu/history.../history.shtml

Of course Paul has now made his + millions.
I also just emailed publications to see if they could dig
up that picture I took of Dr. Kunz. with his monitor back in '91.
fwiw,
-tom