TR: Rangitikei River in New Zealand (long)

On 27 Mar 2007 04:26:37 -0700, "riverman" wrote:

On Mar 27, 6:57 pm, "Peter A. Collin"
wrote:
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Peter Collin

Nice to commiserate; I feel your pain. ;-)

I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some
of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a
big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough
as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a
region with 5+ pounders?

--riverman

Um, "setting the hook?" How were you two going about "setting the
hook?" If y'all were "snatching" the rod up, that'd be the problem. If
you have any "slack," it'll be all the worse.

TC,
R

On Mar 28, 9:09 am, wrote:
On 27 Mar 2007 04:26:37 -0700, "riverman" wrote:





On Mar 27, 6:57 pm, "Peter A. Collin"
wrote:
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Peter Collin

Nice to commiserate; I feel your pain. ;-)

I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some
of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a
big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough
as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a
region with 5+ pounders?

--riverman

Um, "setting the hook?" How were you two going about "setting the
hook?" If y'all were "snatching" the rod up, that'd be the problem. If
you have any "slack," it'll be all the worse.

TC,
R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I was keeping a tight line...I can say it definitively because all of
my takes were during the lift while I was nymphing. With smaller fish,
I just lift the tip and pull back firmly when I feel a take, but not
with any sort of 'snap' or sudden jerk. In fact, I think the fish
pretty much set the hook themselves and I'm just reinforcing the idea.
But with larger fish, I wonder if I have to really HAUL back on the
rod.

--riverman

On 27 Mar 2007 18:40:54 -0700, "riverman" wrote:

On Mar 28, 9:09 am, wrote:
On 27 Mar 2007 04:26:37 -0700, "riverman" wrote:

I'm not very acquainted with big fish, so I'd like to hear from some
of the better catchers about the difference in setting the hook for a
big fish vs a smaller one. Do their beaks get much more bony and tough
as they get larger? How hard to folks set the hook if they are in a
region with 5+ pounders?

--riverman

Um, "setting the hook?" How were you two going about "setting the
hook?" If y'all were "snatching" the rod up, that'd be the problem. If
you have any "slack," it'll be all the worse.

TC,
R- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I was keeping a tight line...I can say it definitively because all of
my takes were during the lift while I was nymphing. With smaller fish,
I just lift the tip and pull back firmly when I feel a take, but not
with any sort of 'snap' or sudden jerk. In fact, I think the fish
pretty much set the hook themselves and I'm just reinforcing the idea.
But with larger fish, I wonder if I have to really HAUL back on the
rod.

--riverman

While I'll wait for the definition of "HAUL back on the rod," I suspect
we have our answer. Being fully prepared for the, um, replies, I think
you'll find "setting the hook" is often as much the part of the quarry
as the fisher. That said, without knowing more about what you did, I'd
not attempt to troubleshoot it. I will say, however, that attempting to
jam a unsharpened (no, I don't mean "dull," I mean _unsharpened_) hook
into the mouth of a large fish with the tip of the rod...oh, like say a
3 wt. catching fish too large for it...with a sudden "snatch" will often
fail. Hey, IIRC, you're a math guy - think about the angle of the line
to the fish, and if you must, the force required, Greek letters, pi, the
cosine of the tangent, etc. when you attempt to set the hook, and
consider what you are trying to stick into what...OK, so there's a
gimme...

TC,
R

"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
...
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when
fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one
of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I
finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose
because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large
scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting
nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul
hooks were just coming loose.

Joe F.

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608"
wrote:

"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
.. .
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when
fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one
of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I
finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose
because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large
scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting
nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul
hooks were just coming loose.

Joe F.

Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker...

TC, and HTH,
R

On Mar 27, 11:18 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608"



wrote:
"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
.. .
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when
fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one
of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I
finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose
because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large
scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting
nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul
hooks were just coming loose.

Joe F.

Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker...

TC, and HTH,
R

I'm baffled by this whole question. I've been pondering what I
do......seems like I just raise the rod and keep tension. I do wonder
if my hooks were sharp when I miss a fish but usually a pull out just
****es me off and I figure it's bad luck. From salt water fishing, I
can tell you about setting or not with a hook. If you don't set a
hook, then when the line tension lets up, the fish spits and it's
gone. You keep and fight the fish until a loss of tension. That's
nothing like losing a big trout. I had four straight pull outs on
takes from large browns on the Mataura one afternoon this year and my
answer was a temper tantrum.

On 29 Mar 2007 17:42:44 -0700, "David F"
wrote:

On Mar 27, 11:18 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608"



wrote:
"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
.. .
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when
fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one
of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I
finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose
because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large
scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting
nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul
hooks were just coming loose.

Joe F.

Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker...

TC, and HTH,
R

I'm baffled by this whole question. I've been pondering what I
do......seems like I just raise the rod and keep tension. I do wonder
if my hooks were sharp when I miss a fish but usually a pull out just
****es me off and I figure it's bad luck. From salt water fishing, I
can tell you about setting or not with a hook. If you don't set a
hook, then when the line tension lets up, the fish spits and it's
gone. You keep and fight the fish until a loss of tension. That's
nothing like losing a big trout. I had four straight pull outs on
takes from large browns on the Mataura one afternoon this year and my
answer was a temper tantrum.

If fishing causes you "temper tantrums," SOMETHING ain't right. That
said, if you have sal****er experience, think about how the hook is set
with tarpon versus, say, specks or redfish.

First and foremost when fishing for larger quarry with hard mouths,
sharpen your hooks. It's not a bad idea with _all_ hooks, but it is
especially important with such quarry. Then think about what you are
doing when you try to set the hook with something as flexible as a
flyrod (and fly line) versus a boat rod (with mono). Think about tarpon
- you set with the line hand after the run has begun, not with the rod
(really, the rod tip..hint, hint) the instant the fly is hit. With such
hard-mouth running quarry, make the fish a "partner" in setting the
hook.

Finally, accept an occasional missed solid hookup as just another part
of fishing...and not catching.

HTH,
R

On Mar 30, 8:42 am, "David F" wrote:
On Mar 27, 11:18 pm, wrote:





On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 01:15:47 GMT, "rb608"

wrote:
"Peter A. Collin" wrote in message
.. .
Your story reminds me of a trip I made to Quebec several years ago for
trophy brook trout. I was using streamers with large hooks, and kept
losing fish like you - the hook just kept pulling out. It was
exasperating and I never figured out what I was doing wrong.

Maybe pertinent, maybe not; but I've found a similar thing happening when
fishing the salmon run in Altmar. Every once in a while, I'd hook into one
of the big ones, only to have it come loose for no apparent reason. I
finally figured out what was happening. The ones I lost were coming loose
because they were foul hooked to begin with. I'd occasionally get a large
scale back on the hook, under the same circumstances as when getting
nothing. It became clear that I'd break off on mouth hookups; but the foul
hooks were just coming loose.

Joe F.

Riverman the Ripper, meet Joe the Jerker...

TC, and HTH,
R

I'm baffled by this whole question. I've been pondering what I
do......seems like I just raise the rod and keep tension.

I'm not only baffled by the question, but struggling with the
terminology and semantics. For example, when I say 'set the hook', I
think some folks (rdean) might be visualizing something different than
what I am visualizing. I like how you describe it.

Here is an infomal range of reactions when a fish strikes, from least
reactive to most:
1) Do nothing, and expect the running fish to implant the hook itself
2) gently raise the rod tip, about as hard as you do when high-stick
nymphing or mending. You may or may not take all the tension out of
the line
3) Lift the rod tip enough to remove all tension, but not enough to
move the fly significantly. This is about as much force as you exert
when keeping a drifting nymph in the upright position
4) Raise the rod tip enough to take out all tension, and to pull the
fly toward you. This would be enough to cause a small fish (say, a
trout less than 6-8 inches) to be turned, but not to be dragged.
5) Raise the rod tip back enough to pull a fish toward you
momentarily. This would be like the force exhibited when retrieving
10-15 feet of line to roll-cast.
5) Pull back firmly on the rod tip as hard as if you were false-
casting. If there is slack in the line, it would be removed with a
small 'snap'.
6) Pull back on the rod tip very hard, with force equivalent to that
you would use to yank a fly out that had entangled in some tall
grasses or a leafy tree. If there is slack in the line, it would
possibly break the tippet.
7) Yank back on the rod tip very violently, with force that would
cause the rod to 'sing' in the air
8) Yank back with all your strength.

Personally, I tend to use force in the #4- range, but I suspect that
with large fish, its better to use force in the #5+ range. But
ensuring that there is no slack in the line.

--riverman